Who Are The "enemies" Of The Saints?

[Uncle Dale]

The 1830 Book of Mormon contains 9 instances of the phrase

"your enemies."

 

The 1833 Book of Commandments (a much shorter text) has

a total of 8 occurrences of "your enemies."

 

The 1835 Doctrine & Covenants has 12 instances (all in

the covenants sections, and none in the faith lectures).

 

This brief browsing does not even begin to take into consideration

all the related phrases, such as "our enemies," "the Lord's enemies,"

"our foe," etc. etc.

 

Were we to compile together, in one massive text, all of the unique

Latter Day Saint publications, from 1830 to, say, 1844, the references

to "enemies" would be equally massive. From the very beginning, it

seems, the early Latter Day Saints anticipated having to face numerous

enemies, of various sorts.

 

But that was in the first part of the 19th century.

We now live in the first part of the 21st century.

 

Whomever those "enemies" were once thought to have been, they

obviously have not prevailed against the Saints.

 

Have they now diminished in numbers and in degree of danger?

 

Does the word even turn up in modern Conference talks, Ensign

articles, etc., in anything like the prevalence it enjoyed in the past?

 

Do the Mormons even have any threatening "enemies" today, in

the places where they live and missionize?

 

UD

(You'll notice that I did not mention Saudi Arabia, and related nations,

where even the mere presence of LDS missionaries would be a danger)

Edited March 17, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[pogi]

"Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;"

 

Behold:

 

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by pogi

[JLHPROF]

 

Have they now diminished in numbers and in degree of danger?

 

Do the Mormons even have any threatening "enemies" today, in

the places where they live and missionize?

 

No, there are just as many enemies as there ever were.  There are those that seek to stop the work of God.  There are those that seek to pervert the work of God.  There are those that seek to blend the work of men into the work of God.

 

Enemies has never really referred to violence.  Even when it did it was all about the saints being prevented from building Zion by the mobs.  Enemies were always enemies of God's work.  There's just as many today as there ever were.  Only their tactics have changed.

[Gervin]

"Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;"

 

Behold:

can you imagine the economic implications if the church allowed a pint a day for medicinal purposes?

[pogi]

"Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;"

 

Behold:

 

No, but seriously, here are some pretty good articles:

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2000/10/the-enemy-within?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/12/enemies-of-righteousness?lang=eng

 

[Uncle Dale]

No, there are just as many enemies as there ever were. 

...

 

.

Perhaps so -- but the notion is foreign to my way of thinking.

In years of hearing Reorganized LDS sermons and teaching,

the word only came up when we had occasion to read something

out of the old D&C sections, or the early chapters of "History of

the Church."

 

I'm fairly sure that I grew to manhood, having only heard it

in reference to WWII Germans and Japanese -- and even that

sort of talk had all but disappeared by the time I'd gone off and

joined the Navy. There, the word "enemy" was a sort of nebulous

hypothetical -- the unseen submarine we flung practice depth

charges at, perhaps. North Koreans? North Vietnamese? Maybe.

 

Now, I'm not so sure. I feel like the word is turning up more and

more often -- and not just from white-robed cross-burners.

 

In Missouri, in 1838, my Winegar ancestors and the Broadhurst

clan exchanged musket shots near Adam-ondi-Ahman -- I guess

that sort of heritage has me reluctant to call one side foe and

the opposing side friend.

 

UD

Edited March 17, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[sunstoned]

No, there are just as many enemies as there ever were.  There are those that seek to stop the work of God.  There are those that seek to pervert the work of God.  There are those that seek to blend the work of men into the work of God.

 

Enemies has never really referred to violence.  Even when it did it was all about the saints being prevented from building Zion by the mobs.  Enemies were always enemies of God's work.  There's just as many today as there ever were.  Only their tactics have changed.

 

How are you defining “enemies”?  Someone you disagrees with you?  It seems the only really backlash the church has experienced is when they poke the bear so to speak.  The church jumped head first into the prop 8 thing, then started howling when the gay rights and other civil liberties groups pushed back.  What goes around comes around.  You don’t see the JWs or the Seventh Day Adventist getting beat up in the news all the time.  Maybe the church should take a clue from them and stick to religion and stay out of politics and stop trying to tell non-members (98% of the U. S. population) how to think and act.

[carbon dioxide]

How are you defining “enemies”?  Someone you disagrees with you?  It seems the only really backlash the church has experienced is when they poke the bear so to speak.  The church jumped head first into the prop 8 thing, then started howling when the gay rights and other civil liberties groups pushed back.  What goes around comes around.  You don’t see the JWs or the Seventh Day Adventist getting beat up in the news all the time.  Maybe the church should take a clue from them and stick to religion and stay out of politics and stop trying to tell non-members (98% of the U. S. population) how to think and act.

I think the notion that the Church started howling when gay rights groups pushed back is a little overstated.  Keep in mind that the LDS Church was not telling the population how to live.  Prop 8 was passed by the non-Mormons in California as anti-gay marriage petitions by the non-Mormons in 30 other states. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[The Nehor]

The jerk who lives next door. Seriously, SHUT UP!!!!!

[Uncle Dale]

 

...Keep in mind that the LDS Church was not telling the population how to live. 

...

 

I don't know enough to comment one way or another. But this

topic reminds me of my attempts to learn what the sins of the

Nephites were. Every now and then I'd ask, and the vague replies

I heard were puzzling -- "They dwindled in unbelief and did some

terrible things." or -- "They fell into unspeakable iniquity." or,

"Their abominations are best left unmentioned."

 

Finally, after years of asking such questions an RLDS Apostle,

in a lecture, said that the worst of it was the "sin of Sodom." He

did not come right out and say that such "sinners" were the

enemies of God and the few remaining righteous Nephites (like

Moroni), but he hinted strongly that was the case.

 

Then I got into grad school and did some reading on the "sin of Sodom,"

which (it seems) was inhospitality, or a failure to recognize the Divine

presence (or both).

 

Which left me all the more puzzled.

 

If the enemies of the Saints are the modern children of Sodom,

that seems like a strange set of people to identify as being the

chief enemy (or the worst sinners).

 

Perhaps the Reorganized LDS Apostle was wrong about Nephite iniquity.

 

???

 

UD

[williamsmith]

How are you defining “enemies”?  Someone you disagrees with you?  It seems the only really backlash the church has experienced is when they poke the bear so to speak.  The church jumped head first into the prop 8 thing, then started howling when the gay rights and other civil liberties groups pushed back.  What goes around comes around.  You don’t see the JWs or the Seventh Day Adventist getting beat up in the news all the time.  Maybe the church should take a clue from them and stick to religion and stay out of politics and stop trying to tell non-members (98% of the U. S. population) how to think and act.

 

The anti-mormon commonly falsely thinks that their bigotry or that of others such gay rights groups, is the same thing as "someone just disagreeing".

It's not.

 

I disagree with a lot of things and people, but I don't misrepresent them, lie about them, falsely and unfairly degrade them, etc., all of which anti-mormonism does, as well as the so-called gay rights groups (liberal groups) do.

Let's just take the gay rights groups.  Mormonism has always loved and respected people, no matter who they are or their beliefs, including gays.  Mormonism wanting to protect the Definition of Marriage is not bigotry, but it is IS bigotry to co-opt an institution, that of marriage, that has never belonged to gays.

 

Mormonism has never said gays can't create "their own" Union institution (i.e. telling them what to do, like you say we are).  If we had, that would be bigotry.  We are only trying to protect our own systems, that's not bigotry.

Tell me, if a gay man said he wanted to use the term "Woman" to classify what he is, wouldn't that be co-opting a definition that doesn't belong to gays?  Yes it would.

Likewise, Marriage, which belongs to man and woman, and has been a primary institution of the "Church" is something they have every right to protect, just as a woman would have every right to protect the definition of a Woman.

 

New terms and definitions are created all the time for new things..... gays themselves already have several, including the word gay (which btw was co-opted, but no big deal for it), but other words have been created to define them.

There is no reason why they shouldn't create their OWN definition and word for their type of Intimate Union.

No one is stopping them from being together, from creating their own definitions and words for what they are doing and are.  We are not even stopping them from having legal rights etc.

We are doing NOTHING but protecting Marriage.  That's not bigotry, and anyone that says so is themselves the actual bigot.

Edited March 17, 2015 by williamsmith

[JLHPROF]

How are you defining “enemies”?  Someone you disagrees with you? 

 

No, someone who disagrees with God and his revelations or tries to stop, slow or alter his work.

 

Plenty of those still about.

[JLHPROF]

The church jumped head first into the prop 8 thing, then started howling when the gay rights and other civil liberties groups pushed back.  What goes around comes around.  You don’t see the JWs or the Seventh Day Adventist getting beat up in the news all the time.  Maybe the church should take a clue from them and stick to religion and stay out of politics and stop trying to tell non-members (98% of the U. S. population) how to think and act.

 

Gay marriage is NOT political.  Marriage by its nature is a religious institution, established first by God in the Garden of Eden.  The Church has every right to take a religious stand.  Fighting for marriage IS sticking to religion.

Non-religious marriage is really just a civil union (and means very little).

[stemelbow]

I think many in the Church see enemies in people who have no clue they are considered enemies. Having enemies make people feel better it seems. I'm not sure there are defined enemies. Even still I'd guess some people in the Church might see me as some sort of enemy--as in wolves in sheep' clothing. Some members seem to delight in trying to call out wolves, it seems. And some ex-LDS seem to treat and view LDS as enemies, which is an interesting way to set up themselves as enemies to some LDS.

I just have way too hard a time figuring out how to define people and putting them in categories seems near impossible in some cases. I'd rather just view it as we're all, whether LDS or not, in this together.

[Uncle Dale]

I think many in the Church see enemies in people who have no clue they are considered enemies.

...

.

I'm trying to picture the scene of an early missionary like

Parley P. Pratt, walking into a rural hamlet and preaching

to a growing assembly of curious onlookers.

 

Telling them that the local Protestant minister was a wicked

"hireling priest" who was perverting the true Gospel, in order

to "get gain," and that the villagers ought to "flee Babylon"

and "gather with the Saints in Zion" in order to find refuge

in the "wrath that was to come," etc., etc.

 

 

As soon as such an early 1830s Elder began baptizing the

local Methodists, Baptists, and Presbyterians, down at the

fishing pond, he was certain to receive an unhappy response

from the deacons and ministers -- who might even try to

stop the loss of their congregations' members.

 

So -- in opposing the missionary -- those ministers, deacons,

and other Protestant loyalists made themselves "enemies" of

God's Plan of Salvation, and of the Restored Gospel.

 

I suppose THAT is where the first "enemies" came from.

 

But the Book of Mormon and some of the earliest Mormon

revelations anticipate this opposition. The ministers and others

inclined to resist LDS conversion were the "enemies of God"

before they ever heard the missionary read a single sentence

out of the "Fulness of the Everlasting Gospel" (Book of Mormon).

 

If I'm correct in that conclusion, then the early Mormons suspected

that practically ALL the people around them were "enemies," save

for those few whose ancestors were of the Tribe of Ephraim (or of

the Tribe of Manasseh, if they were Indians; or, rarely, from Judah,

Levi, etc.), and thus predisposed to readily accept the restored

"truth" of their "ancient forefathers."

 

It seems that the Mormons viewed all the unconverted Gentiles as

being the passive (if not the active) opponents of God, and thus

likely "enemies."

 

Every now and then a friendly Gentile was to be found -- Col. Kane,

for example, (whom some say was secretly baptized a Mormon) or

James Arlington Bennett (whom the newspapers said was secretly

baptized a Mormon by Brigham Young), or Daniel H. Wells at Nauvoo

(who seems to have been a convert, months before his baptism).

 

Which Gentiles did the Mormons view as NOT being their enemies?

The Jews, perhaps? (Who, in turn, viewed the Mormons as Gentiles).

 

UD

Edited March 17, 2015 by Uncle Dale

[rodheadlee]

it's not that difficult.

 

1. en·e·my

   ˈenəmē/  

   noun

   noun: enemy; plural noun: enemies

   1. a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something.

      synonyms: opponent, adversary, foe, archenemy, rival, antagonist, combatant, challenger, competitor, opposer; More

      the opposition, the competition, the other side, the opposing side

      "he and his brother have been enemies for years"

      antonyms: ally, friend

      • a hostile nation or its armed forces or citizens, especially in time of war.

        noun: the enemy

        "the enemy shot down four helicopters"
      • a thing that harms or weakens something else.

        "routine is the enemy of art"

 

[Tacenda]

I think some LDS are their own worst enemy. Tonight I went to dinner with two couples from my ward. As they observed people surrounding us, it was outdoor an area, they judged two gay women...the one gal said "oh, look at that fat lesbian pull out the chair for her girlfriend". And the other one, guy this time, said, look at that Asian take selfies and proceeded to make fun of them always taking pictures.

So much for me believing them when professing Christlike love. Sad thing is my husband wants to start hanging out with them. I'm sick to my stomach.

[Calm]

I think some LDS are their own worst enemy. Tonight I went to dinner with two couples from my ward. As they observed people surrounding us, it was outdoor an area, they judged two gay women...the one gal said "oh, look at that fat lesbian pull out the chair for her girlfriend". And the other one, guy this time, said, look at that Asian take selfies and proceeded to make fun of them always taking pictures.

So much for me believing them when professing Christlike love. Sad thing is my husband wants to start hanging out with them. I'm sick to my stomach.

Did you speak up and say something or just remain quiet as if it was unimportant?

Edited March 18, 2015 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

Did you speak up and say something or just remain quiet as if it was unimportant?

I'm a chicken, wish I had. Sad thing is my husband added on to the Asian comment. I do not fit in anywhere. Edited March 18, 2015 by Tacenda

[rodheadlee]

Yes, sometimes the enemy is within.

[Tacenda]

Yes, sometimes the enemy is within.

I wish this was an isolated case. Maybe my husband and I are magnets for these kinds, we have went out with others in our ward who make fun of others. I can't count how many times.

[Tacenda]

Dbl post

Edited March 18, 2015 by Tacenda

[Calm]

"So much for me believing them when professing Christlike love. Sad thing is my husband wants to start hanging out with them. I'm sick to my stomach."

So it is a bad thing to make fun of someone, but it is okay to say they sicken you?

[The Nehor]

I think some LDS are their own worst enemy. Tonight I went to dinner with two couples from my ward. As they observed people surrounding us, it was outdoor an area, they judged two gay women...the one gal said "oh, look at that fat lesbian pull out the chair for her girlfriend". And the other one, guy this time, said, look at that Asian take selfies and proceeded to make fun of them always taking pictures.

So much for me believing them when professing Christlike love. Sad thing is my husband wants to start hanging out with them. I'm sick to my stomach.

I would find better friends. that has not been my experience with most LDS.

[Calm]

Last time it happened to me was about 10 years ago....a 12 year old repeating a joke trashing democrats, the President in particular. I recovered from shock first and broke it to her such comments were inappropriate. I don't think she actually understood the racist implications. When I finished the other two leaders spoke up.

We live about 50 miles apart so I don't think the culture is that different. I live in a ward where they speak up if they hear something like that. Someone had to start it. Tacenda should be the trend starter in her ward if there is a problem.

Edited March 18, 2015 by calmoriah