Hamilton Porter Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 You often hear his sychophantic followers utter this. What they seem to miss is that Open Stories Foundation is a 501c3 charity; it is required to do so. The Church isn't. Dehlin has duped them into thinking that he's performing a voluntary act of virtue.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 You often hear his sychophantic followers utter this. What they seem to miss is that Open Stories Foundation is a 501c3 charity; it is required to do so. The Church isn't. Dehlin has duped them into thinking that he's performing a voluntary act of virtue.It is a charity? You mean the John Dehlin charity? All proceeds go to him? It technically is a "nonprofit". Which of course is a load of bunk. 1
rockpond Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 You often hear his sychophantic followers utter this. What they seem to miss is that Open Stories Foundation is a 501c3 charity; it is required to do so. The Church isn't. Dehlin has duped them into thinking that he's performing a voluntary act of virtue. My understanding is that 501©(3) organizations are required to disclose finances to the IRS, not necessarily to the public.
ksfisher Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 My understanding is that 501©(3) organizations are required to disclose finances to the IRS, not necessarily to the public. http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Public-Disclosure-and-Availability-of-Exempt-Organizations-Returns-and-Applications:-Public-Disclosure-Requirements-in-General Public Disclosure and Availability of Exempt Organizations Returns and Applications: Public Disclosure Requirements in GeneralIn general, what public disclosure requirements apply to tax-exempt organizations?In general, exempt organizations must make available for public inspection certain annual returns and applications for exemption, and must provide copies of such returns and applications to individuals who request them. Copies usually must be provided immediately in the case of in-person requests, and within 30 days in the case of written requests. The tax-exempt organization may charge a reasonable copying fee plus actual postage, if any. The IRS must also make this same information publicly available. 4
ksfisher Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Public-Disclosure-and-Availability-of-Exempt-Organizations-Returns-and-Applications:-Documents-Subject-to-Public-Disclosure Public Disclosure and Availability of Exempt Organizations Returns and Applications: Documents Subject to Public DisclosureWhat tax documents must an exempt organization make available for public inspection and copying?An exempt organization must make available for public inspection its exemption application. An exemption application includes the Form 1023 (for organizations recognized as exempt under Internal Revenue Code section 501©(3)), Form 1024 (for organizations recognized as exempt under most other paragraphs of section 501©), or the letter submitted under the paragraphs for which no form is prescribed, together with supporting documents and any letter or document issued by the IRS concerning the application. A political organization exempt from taxation under section 527(a) must make available for public inspection and copying its notice of status, Form 8871.In addition, an exempt organization must make available for public inspection and copying its annual return. Such returns include Form 990 , Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax, Form 990-EZ , Short Form Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax, Form 990-PF, Return of Private Foundation, Form 990-BL , Information and Initial Excise Tax Return for Black Lung Benefit Trusts and Certain Related Persons, and the Form 1065 , U.S. Partnership Return of Income. A section 501©(3) organization must make available for public inspection and copying any Form 990-T, Exempt Organization Business Income Tax Return, filed after August 17, 2006. Returns must be available for a three-year period beginning with the due date of the return (including any extension of time for filing). For this purpose, the return includes any schedules, attachments, or supporting documents that relate to the imposition of tax on the unrelated business income of the charity. See Public Inspection and Disclosure of Form 990-T for more information.An exempt organization is not required to disclose Schedule K-1 of Form 1065 or Schedule A of Form 990-BL. With the exception of private foundations, an exempt organization is not required to disclose the name and address of any contributor to the organization.A political organization exempt from taxation under section 527(a) must make available for inspection and copying its report of contributions and expenditures on Form 8872, Political Organization Report of Contributions and Expenditures. However, such organization is not required to make available its return on Form 1120-POL, U.S. Income Tax Return for Certain Political Organizations. Edited February 25, 2015 by ksfisher 1
Glenn101 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 My understanding is that 501©(3) organizations are required to disclose finances to the IRS, not necessarily to the public. I think that you will find that the IRS must make the information available to the public. Also. the organization must make certain information available to the public upon request. Glenn
rpn Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/272026793 This is a link to the required 990 for Open Stories Foundation (though I couldn't tell whether it is the one from the IRS or self-reported, and the latest is 2012). It would be fun to track the contributions related to the times he was trying to return to the church and when he did the Phillips and Tanner interviews. ETA, 2013 is at the very bottom and shows a sharp drop in income, but about the same income for John. If anyone was running the foundations info for its charitable purpose, it would say that more than 2/3 of the income goes to overhead (John) rather than any charitable purpose). Edited February 25, 2015 by rpn
why me Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 In my opinion, john disclosed the financial information because of the criticism that he took when it was publicized that he made 90,000 last year. I think that he believed that by disclosing such information, the flak would be less severe. However, I do think that since the 90k went to his own private use, no matter what he may disclose now, will still not be enough to get people less suspicious about his finances.
Calm Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 The information of his salary has been published for many years, not just after the 90,000 number was published in the SLT. 1
UtahTexan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 So what? John Dehlin can do whatever he wants. Since when does he compare to a church? what a stupid comparison. 3
ERayR Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) My understanding is that 501©(3) organizations are required to disclose finances to the IRS, not necessarily to the public. Edited February 25, 2015 by ERayR
cinepro Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 You often hear his sychophantic followers utter this. What they seem to miss is that Open Stories Foundation is a 501c3 charity; it is required to do so. The Church isn't. Dehlin has duped them into thinking that he's performing a voluntary act of virtue. It's an interesting comparison. I'm mildly interested in the Dehlin financial disclosures from an accounting standpoint, and curiosity about how much someone can make from such a venture. I've never donated any money to him, so it doesn't bother me how the money gets used. I would only be offended if he was indicating the money would be used for one purpose, when if fact it had gone elsewhere. But no one has accused him of that (as far as I know). I am a little more interested in the Church's finances because I do give the Church a bit of money, and the Church makes claims about the nature and use of that money that go far beyond asking for simple donations. I am told that my eternal salvation is at stake (including being "burned" if I don't pay it), and that my ability to go to the Temple to see my children married, and to make sacred saving covenants on behalf of dead people is also contingent. So yeah, I look at them a little differently. 3
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted February 25, 2015 Popular Post Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) It's an interesting comparison. I'm mildly interested in the Dehlin financial disclosures from an accounting standpoint, and curiosity about how much someone can make from such a venture. I've never donated any money to him, so it doesn't bother me how the money gets used. I would only be offended if he was indicating the money would be used for one purpose, when if fact it had gone elsewhere. But no one has accused him of that (as far as I know). I am a little more interested in the Church's finances because I do give the Church a bit of money, and the Church makes claims about the nature and use of that money that go far beyond asking for simple donations. I am told that my eternal salvation is at stake (including being "burned" if I don't pay it), and that my ability to go to the Temple to see my children married, and to make sacred saving covenants on behalf of dead people is also contingent. So yeah, I look at them a little differently. Ah, yes, the great attack of the critic and the simple minded anti-Mormon. What do the scriptures say about paying tithes to God? Does the Church say anything that is not in scripture regarding tithing? This whine just makes me shake my head in wonder that some people are devoid of biblical teachings and then wants to parade that the Church is somehow unfair. Then there is the temple. A temple sealing takes about fifteen minutes from beginning to end. I am sorry, but there is no pageantry and it is not a wedding. It really is a very personal experience between the couple and God and no one else. Mormonism has used it to replace weddings, but there is little in common with the two events. You want to watch you daughter and son go down the aisle, then by all means spend the $40,000 and have a bash. The great thing is that the Church won't get a dime of that money and it will be all for you and children. Won't that be fun?!? I really tire of this charade of hurt feelings; celebrate your wedding outside of the temple. It won't affect the temple sealing one bit and everyone is invited. In fact, speed a couple hundred thousand on the event. Go all out and invite every family member in the extended clan; even the ones you don't like. These criticisms are groundless. They are the same as saying Mormon temple ceremonies are secret. Oh, that burning thing. That does not go away and is only between you and God. If you want, never pay a dime to the Church, but you get to pay the consequences. Go for it. Edited February 25, 2015 by Storm Rider 8
ERayR Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Ah, yes, the great attack of the critic and the simple minded anti-Mormon. What do the scriptures say about paying tithes to God? Does the Church say anything that is not in scripture regarding tithing? This whine just makes me shake my head in wonder that some people are devoid of biblical teachings and then wants to parade that the Church is somehow unfair. Then there is the temple. A temple sealing takes about fifteen minutes from beginning to end. I am sorry, but there is no pageantry and it is not a wedding. It really is a very personal experience between the couple and God and no one else. Mormonism has used it to replace weddings, but there is little in common with the two events. You want to watch you daughter and son go down the aisle, then by all means spend the $40,000 and have a bash. The great thing is that the Church won't get a dime of that money and it will be all for you and children. Won't that be fun?!? I really tire of this charade of hurt feelings; celebrate your wedding outside of the temple. It won't affect the temple sealing one bit and everyone is invited. In fact, speed a couple hundred thousand on the event. Go all out and invite every family member in the extended clan; even the ones you don't like. These criticisms are groundless. They are the same as saying Mormon temple ceremonies are secret. Oh, that burning thing. That does not go away and is only between you and God. If you want, never pay a dime to the Church, but you get to pay the consequences. Go for it. All I can say is amen.
cinepro Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) What do the scriptures say about paying tithes to God? Does the Church say anything that is not in scripture regarding tithing? Yes? I am sorry, but there is no pageantry and it is not a wedding. I'm also curious about this new teaching about Temple Sealings. Apart from the fact that you are addressing a bunch of issues that I neither raised nor care about, you are presenting it in a way that might be more accurate but certainly the opposite to everything the youth are taught. "A 15-minute non-wedding between you and God. Family members optional." Edited February 25, 2015 by cinepro 2
carbon dioxide Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Keep It's an interesting comparison. I'm mildly interested in the Dehlin financial disclosures from an accounting standpoint, and curiosity about how much someone can make from such a venture. I've never donated any money to him, so it doesn't bother me how the money gets used. I would only be offended if he was indicating the money would be used for one purpose, when if fact it had gone elsewhere. But no one has accused him of that (as far as I know). I am a little more interested in the Church's finances because I do give the Church a bit of money, and the Church makes claims about the nature and use of that money that go far beyond asking for simple donations. I am told that my eternal salvation is at stake (including being "burned" if I don't pay it), and that my ability to go to the Temple to see my children married, and to make sacred saving covenants on behalf of dead people is also contingent. So yeah, I look at them a little differently.My parents have 6 kids. Five of them are married including me. They did not go to the temple to see any of their weddings. My dad finally went to the temple later on. Never have my parents complained about the policy on this. Why is that? Because the church did not keep them from going to the temple. They kept themselves from it by not meeting all the requirements. I think it was mainly tithing but I never asked them. They understood it was all upon them. Mature people accept responsibility for their actions. They accept the fact that if they do not comply with requirements or rules, exceptions are not to be expected. I view the temple policy to be very instructive on how judgement and the resurrection will be. The kingdom of God has laws that govern it and people will be denied to enter because they had not lived a life that is not compatible with those laws. God loves all of us but his love for us does not violate those laws. So if the rules involving the temple bother someone, they are really going to be bothered for eternity because people will not be allowed to enter the Celestial Kingdom because they don't have a Celestial Kingdom "recommend". 3
carbon dioxide Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Mormonism has used it to replace weddings, but there is little in common with the two events. You want to watch you daughter and son go down the aisle, then by all means spend the $40,000 and have a bash. The great thing is that the Church won't get a dime of that money and it will be all for you and children. Won't that be fun?!? The real wedding is in the temple in my opinion. The civil part of it only has do with taxes and other benefits but that is nothing to spend tens of thousands on. Weddings are a complete waste of money which is another reason why I like how the temple does it. I don't mind spending some money on a dinner or reception but I would rather spend 20K on Las Vegas than on a civil wedding that lasts an hour and really has no long term consequence. At least in Vegas I might win something.
carbon dioxide Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Yes? I'm also curious about this new teaching about Temple Sealings. Apart from the fact that you are addressing a bunch of issues that I neither raised nor care about, you are presenting it in a way that might be more accurate but certainly the opposite to everything the youth are taught. "A 15-minute non-wedding between you and God. Family members optional." Baptism, confirmation, and every other priesthood action is between the individual and God. The family is optional. One does not need the family there for the ordinance to be valid. Sealing are the true weddings. Civil marriages are counterfeits created by the government and society but all of them end at some point. God does not honor them in the eternities.
Duncan Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 It's an interesting comparison. I'm mildly interested in the Dehlin financial disclosures from an accounting standpoint, and curiosity about how much someone can make from such a venture. I've never donated any money to him, so it doesn't bother me how the money gets used. I would only be offended if he was indicating the money would be used for one purpose, when if fact it had gone elsewhere. But no one has accused him of that (as far as I know). I am a little more interested in the Church's finances because I do give the Church a bit of money, and the Church makes claims about the nature and use of that money that go far beyond asking for simple donations. I am told that my eternal salvation is at stake (including being "burned" if I don't pay it), and that my ability to go to the Temple to see my children married, and to make sacred saving covenants on behalf of dead people is also contingent. So yeah, I look at them a little differently. correct me if I am wrong but prior to 1910 you wouldn't be burned for non payment of Tithing, as Tithing wasn't enforced and on the recommend until then-well, it was added to the recommend in 1880 ish but not enforced until 1910, so ! hahhahha! now we'll be burned but a hundred plus years ago you wouldn't be
Danzo Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 My understanding is that 501©(3) organizations are required to disclose finances to the IRS, not necessarily to the public. A 501©3 Organization is required to file a for 990, reporting on its finances. Unlike Most tax forms filed with the IRS, a form 990 is not considered confidential, and can be shared with whoever wants to see it. In that sense it is available to the public.
Calm Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Baptism, confirmation, and every other priesthood action is between the individual and God. The family is optional. One does not need the family there for the ordinance to be valid. Sealing are the true weddings.optional or not, we as a community tend to invite our loved ones to come and participate. It should hardly be surprising that some actually feel this is an important part of the experience.
ERayR Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 optional or not, we as a community tend to invite our loved ones to come and participate. It should hardly be surprising that some actually feel this is an important part of the experience. Yes and often get to many in the ordination circle.
rockpond Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 In my opinion, john disclosed the financial information because of the criticism that he took when it was publicized that he made 90,000 last year. I think that he believed that by disclosing such information, the flak would be less severe. However, I do think that since the 90k went to his own private use, no matter what he may disclose now, will still not be enough to get people less suspicious about his finances. You are incorrect. He published financials for MS/OSF (not just his salary) years before the SLT publicized his salary. They are on the OSF website and, I can tell you that as a donor, I was sent financial statements each year. 1
rockpond Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Public-Disclosure-and-Availability-of-Exempt-Organizations-Returns-and-Applications:-Public-Disclosure-Requirements-in-GeneralPublic Disclosure and Availability of Exempt Organizations Returns and Applications: Public Disclosure Requirements in GeneralIn general, what public disclosure requirements apply to tax-exempt organizations?In general, exempt organizations must make available for public inspection certain annual returns and applications for exemption, and must provide copies of such returns and applications to individuals who request them. Copies usually must be provided immediately in the case of in-person requests, and within 30 days in the case of written requests. The tax-exempt organization may charge a reasonable copying fee plus actual postage, if any. The IRS must also make this same information publicly available. I'm curious why this doesn't seem to apply to the Church (also a tax exempt organization).
rockpond Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I think that you will find that the IRS must make the information available to the public. This is consistent with my understanding. But I believe that Dehlin's Open Stories Foundation has disclosed more than the required amount of information. http://openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/
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