rockpond Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/272026793 This is a link to the required 990 for Open Stories Foundation (though I couldn't tell whether it is the one from the IRS or self-reported, and the latest is 2012). It would be fun to track the contributions related to the times he was trying to return to the church and when he did the Phillips and Tanner interviews. ETA, 2013 is at the very bottom and shows a sharp drop in income, but about the same income for John. If anyone was running the foundations info for its charitable purpose, it would say that more than 2/3 of the income goes to overhead (John) rather than any charitable purpose). More information/detail is available on the OSF website: http://openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/
Danzo Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I'm curious why this doesn't seem to apply to the Church (also a tax exempt organization). Churches are specifically excluded from the requirement to file a form 990.
cinepro Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Baptism, confirmation, and every other priesthood action is between the individual and God. The family is optional. One does not need the family there for the ordinance to be valid. Sealing are the true weddings. Civil marriages are counterfeits created by the government and society but all of them end at some point. God does not honor them in the eternities. To be clear, I was only making the point that a person who doesn't pay their tithing can't enter the Temple to see a friend or family member be sealed. You can argue that the person shouldn't care about that, but it's still a huge difference between the incentives given for people to donate to John Dehlin compared to the LDS Church. 1
bluebell Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 You can argue that the person shouldn't care about that, but it's still a huge difference between the incentives given for people to donate to John Dehlin compared to the LDS Church. That makes sense since tithing, as it is spoken of in the scriptures and in other places, doesn't have much in common with money that is donated to a cause, an organization, or a person. 1
Brian 2.0 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Then there is the temple. A temple sealing takes about fifteen minutes from beginning to end. I am sorry, but there is no pageantry and it is not a wedding.It would be much better if it was not a wedding, but it is in most cases. You are getting legally married in the sealing. You need to call a spade a spade. It's a wedding. 1
filovirus Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 It would be much better if it was not a wedding, but it is in most cases. You are getting legally married in the sealing.You need to call a spade a spade. It's a wedding.It's a marriage, not a wedding.
Hamilton Porter Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 More information/detail is available on the OSF website: http://openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/All that says is how much he made. That's not beyond what he's required to report. Sorry, you've been duped.
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 All that says is how much he made. That's not beyond what he's required to report. Sorry, you've been duped.Wrong. Did you go to the link? It shows the income statements and balance sheets for OSF (not just Dehlin) for the past three years.
Storm Rider Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 The real wedding is in the temple in my opinion. The civil part of it only has do with taxes and other benefits but that is nothing to spend tens of thousands on. Weddings are a complete waste of money which is another reason why I like how the temple does it. I don't mind spending some money on a dinner or reception but I would rather spend 20K on Las Vegas than on a civil wedding that lasts an hour and really has no long term consequence. At least in Vegas I might win something. I separate a sealing from a wedding; they are two different things in my mind. A wedding is a social affair where loads of people come to celebrate. A sealing is a personal affair between the couple and God. I agree with you that it is the real thing, that which we should all seek after, but its context is wholly different than a wedding.
cinepro Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) It's a marriage, not a wedding. You can call it anything you want (a rodeo, fiesta, shindig, coronation, etc.) but the Church itself commonly refers to it as a "Temple Wedding", so that's good enough for me. Edited February 26, 2015 by cinepro 1
slamarwi Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Wrong.Did you go to the link? It shows the income statements and balance sheets for OSF (not just Dehlin) for the past three years.A. Seriously, who cares what John Dehlin makes? B. Who cares what the church makes?C. Tithing has been a commandment for Jews and Christian for millennia. Either you help the poor and needy or you don't.d. This topic is simply a gimmick to denigrate the church. 1
Teancum Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) You often hear his sychophantic followers utter this. What they seem to miss is that Open Stories Foundation is a 501c3 charity; it is required to do so. The Church isn't. Dehlin has duped them into thinking that he's performing a voluntary act of virtue.Yes the LDS Church and all churches in the USA are 501©(3) organizations. Just for some odd reason churches are exempted from being required to file a Form 990 or any other public disclosure. Many do publish financial info but it is voluntary. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints however opts not to do so. Edited February 26, 2015 by Teancum
SeekingUnderstanding Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) C. Tithing has been a commandment for Jews and Christian for millennia. Either you help the poor and needy or you don't.Just to be clear tithing (funds ward budgets, buildings, temples, BYU, manuals, overhead) does not equal helping the poor and needy. It helps care for the spiritual needs of the flock (rich and poor) but should not be viewed as talking care of the poor and needy. Maybe you are thinking fast offerings. Edited February 26, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding 2
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) A. Seriously, who cares what John Dehlin makes? B. Who cares what the church makes?C. Tithing has been a commandment for Jews and Christian for millennia. Either you help the poor and needy or you don't.d. This topic is simply a gimmick to denigrate the church.A. I never have. B. I care less what the Church "makes" and more about what they do with it. C. As far as we know, the Church does not use tithing for the poor and needy. D. Actually, if you look at the title of the thread and the OP, this topic seems to have been started to denigrate supporters of Dehlin/MS. Edited February 26, 2015 by rockpond 1
slamarwi Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Just to be clear tithing (funds ward budgets, buildings, temples, BYU, manuals, overhead) does not equal helping the poor and needy. It helps care for the spiritual needs of the flock (rich and poor) but should not be viewed as talking care of the poor and needy. Maybe you are thinking fast offerings. I understand the financial aspects of the church just fine. I was referring to the ancient law as well as the current tithes and offerings that church membership provides. I will be more precise in the future. @Rockpond - The title of this thread is intended to be inflammatory.
Hamilton Porter Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 Wrong. Did you go to the link? It shows the income statements and balance sheets for OSF (not just Dehlin) for the past three years.The items on those statements are already required on the 990. You've been suckered into thinking he's some virtuous guy. You poor thing.
Hamilton Porter Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 I would only be offended if he was indicating the money would be used for one purpose, when if fact it had gone elsewhere.A voluntary exchange of services for money like that certainly isn't outrageous. But that would make him a business, not a non-profit. The vast majority of the OSF goes to him, which is not typical for a non-profit.
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 The items on those statements are already required on the 990. You've been suckered into thinking he's some virtuous guy. You poor thing.I've never mentioned his virtue. I've simply agreed that he discloses OSF's finances and our Church does not disclose its finances.
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 A voluntary exchange of services for money like that certainly isn't outrageous. But that would make him a business, not a non-profit. The vast majority of the OSF goes to him, which is not typical for a non-profit.The salary that goes to him is taxed.
ERayR Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 A voluntary exchange of services for money like that certainly isn't outrageous. But that would make him a business, not a non-profit. The vast majority of the OSF goes to him, which is not typical for a non-profit. Some businesses are not-for-profit. A Not-for-profit (organization (NPO) is an organization that uses its surplus revenues to further achieve its purpose or 'mission', rather than distributing its surplus income to the organization's directors (or equivalents) as profit or dividends. This is known as the 'distribution constraint'. [1] The decision to adopt a nonprofit legal structure is one that will often have taxation implications too, particularly where the nonprofit seeks income tax exemption, charitable status and so on).- Wikipedia There are a lot of such organizations pay a large portion of their income to the top executives as wages. 3
ERayR Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) I've never mentioned his virtue. I've simply agreed that he discloses OSF's finances and our Church does not disclose its finances. He is required to disclose. Edited February 26, 2015 by ERayR
Hamilton Porter Posted February 26, 2015 Author Posted February 26, 2015 I've never mentioned his virtue. I've simply agreed that he discloses OSF's finances and our Church does not disclose its finances. You said that he's disclosed above and beyond his call of duty, which isn't true. He's touting his disclosure as some shining example of transparency, when in fact he's just doing what's compelled by law. The salary that goes to him is taxed. Well yeah, everybody pays income tax. But donations to Mormon Stories are tax deductible.
ERayR Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 You said that he's disclosed above and beyond his call of duty, which isn't true. He's touting his disclosure as some shining example of transparency, when in fact he's just doing what's compelled by law. Well yeah, everybody pays income tax. But donations to Mormon Stories are tax deductible. It would be interesting to see what he listed as the charitable purpose for Mormon Stories.
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 You said that he's disclosed above and beyond his call of duty, which isn't true. He's touting his disclosure as some shining example of transparency, when in fact he's just doing what's compelled by law. What's been cited on here shows that OSF is required to disclose to the IRS. Not voluntarily publish financial statements to a website for everyone to see. But perhaps I have misunderstood. Well yeah, everybody pays income tax. But donations to Mormon Stories are tax deductible. Donations to the Church as also tax deductible.
rockpond Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 It would be interesting to see what he listed as the charitable purpose for Mormon Stories. Probably something along the lines of what is stated on the OSF website: In addition to explicitly striving to align all Open Stories Foundation operations with the Mormon Stories Shared Values, we endeavor to ensure that the projects we undertake 1) support individuals in Mormon-related faith crises, 2) save marriages, 3) heal families, and 4) celebrate, challenge, and advance Mormon culture in healthy ways. http://openstoriesfoundation.org/
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