Doctrine 612 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ. Sorry, no, I'm the opposite. As a Mormon I embrace all truth that the spirit prompts, regardless. Getting stuck on the first principles limits progress. And contemplating highest mountains and deepest abysses is much more fun. And as Joseph said, a man is saved no faster than he gains intelligence (truth). I appreciate what you are saying about folklore vs proven canon, but I think both can be beneficial. Truth is truth, no matter its origin. And good doctrine tastes good (spiritually). 1
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ. I'm willing to accept that some people may believe that, but I'm particular about what I personally believe.
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Without folklore church would be much less amusing. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Mormon ethnicity is so strong in some areas that doctrine makes little difference as to who is and is not "Mormon," Granted that there will always be those who demand that one have priesthood, a temple recommend, a calling, and pay tithing in order to be a "real" Mormon, but Apostle Holland has spoken very frankly to the point that we must be much broader than that. We must have a bigger tent and broader ambitions, be more inclusive of those who have fallen short of "perfection" -- at least for now. At the same time, there must be official boundary maintenance for troublemakers, who must occasionally be ejected -- until they repent. Being a part of the Saints of the Last Days is a process and a path not a final destination.
Freedom Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 In every discipline there are those who don't have all the facts. Most people do not read so most people are uninformed, and this results in having less than accurate understanding of the facts. This applies to politics, medicine, history, mechanics and what ever other topic you can imagine. People, by and large, just don't read. Too much time is spent watching trashy tv shows, posting on facebook, or reading novels.
Doctrine 612 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 In every discipline there are those who don't have all the facts. Most people do not read so most people are uninformed, and this results in having less than accurate understanding of the facts. This applies to politics, medicine, history, mechanics and what ever other topic you can imagine. People, by and large, just don't read. Too much time is spent watching trashy tv shows, posting on facebook, or reading novels.And passing on what they learned from face book with out checking if it is true.Without folklore church would be much less amusing.Yes I agree some what. Lol.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ.I very much agree with what you have said here. Thing is, priesthood correlation in the Church -- under the inspired direction of the prophets and apostles -- is meant in part to counteract what you are talking about. Yet, from time to time, I see disparaging comments made about correlation. I at times suspect that some of the complainers want license to pursue their own gospel hobbies without being reined in by correlation.
Boanerges Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ. I very much agree with what you have said. The debate about what is doctrine, what is policy, and what is tradition is real. I hold that there is very little doctrine, and it is quite simple. Several General Authorities, particularly Apostles, have made a point if saying this of late. Elder Ballard, in particular, mentions it often.
Tacenda Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I very much agree with what you have said. The debate about what is doctrine, what is policy, and what is tradition is real. I hold that there is very little doctrine, and it is quite simple. Several General Authorities, particularly Apostles, have made a point if saying this of late. Elder Ballard, in particular, mentions it often.I'll bet Elder Ballard wishes most of the past policies/doctrines/traditions could all just go away and just focus on the Saviour as they have the missionaries doing today.ETA: I should have said discontinued past policies/doctrine (polygamy and blacks in the PH), traditions, sorry my bad! I had to edit, ran out of my limited posts. Edited January 20, 2015 by Tacenda
thesometimesaint Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'll bet Elder Ballard wishes most of the past policies/doctrines/traditions could all just go away and just focus on the Saviour as they have the missionaries doing today. I have no idea as to what that means?
Mystery Meat Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Getting stuck on the first principles limits progress. Sorry, but I think this is not only wrong, it is dangerously so. All do respect of course. 1
ERayR Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ. Are you advocating formulation of a creed? Joseph Smith adamantly opposed creeds and I agree with him. I do not want to be limited by someones "true doctrine".
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry, but I think this is not only wrong, it is dangerously so. All do respect of course.Agreed, as a wise teacher told me you are more likely to find the hidden treasures of wisdom and uncover the mysteries of God by studying the basic principles of the gospel than you are looking into the esoteric. 3
ERayR Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'll bet Elder Ballard wishes most of the past policies/doctrines/traditions could all just go away and just focus on the Saviour as they have the missionaries doing today. I hope not!!
ERayR Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry, but I think this is not only wrong, it is dangerously so. All do respect of course. Dangerous is what Satan called God's plan which was championed by Jesus. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Sorry, but I think this is not only wrong, it is dangerously so. All do respect of course. You have that right. I'll stick with the teachings of Joseph Smith and the scriptures on the subject.The first principles are enough to gain admission into the Celestial Kingdom, but if we want to become as Christ is we need to know what Christ knows. That's the true first principle.
Coreyb Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ.I used to think this way, particularly during my mission. I would in fact get somewhat angry in my mind when sitting in class and hearing something that "isn't doctrine" or "is false doctrine". I came to realize after awhile, that much of what is taught as doctrine in the manuals has about as much historical credibility as much of the "folklore". Another problem arises when you realize that the only teachings that are "official" are the ones we have voted into our canon (and that isn't even a fail safe because we have dropped a few things), but we don't canonize doctrines, we canonize texts. A doctrine is a idea that one believes, and is therefore abstract, intangible, and solely in the realm of ones own mind. As soon as you record a doctrine into text (or audio) in order to preserve it, it becomes subject to interpretation by the reader. Thus everything taught is interpretation. We have no official doctrines, only official texts, and those texts have all been interpreted in various different ways over time by all Latter Day Saints who read them, including those we call prophets, seers, and revelators. I find it is much better to sit back in class and see what I can find that is sweet and good, or interesting and bizarre Edited January 21, 2015 by Coreyb 3
Nofear Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I don't go to Church with the expectation of learning any new doctrine. Might learn some new insights or inspiration about how to better apply the Gospel to my life, be awakened to a need, etc. ... but new doctrine... not really. But neither do I limit myself to just the doctrines taught in Church. Nor do I believe that the Church wants me to do so. Indeed, quite the contrary. I am expected to learn and pursue truths well beyond that taught in Church on Sunday. It is one of our obligations to so purse truth. Does it mean we go and willy-nilly share our discoveries? No. Much less at Church. See Alma 12:9-10. In my experience, often those that rail against the simplicity of the doctrines taught in Church lack perspective about what we expect of the organization and individual. And those that willfully lack hunger for truths beyond that taught in Church... well, they're a different kind of special. Edited January 21, 2015 by Nofear 2
Rain Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I have been a member for over 13 years and i still shake my head at all the things mormon say or belive because they heard it from someone that heard it from someone that heard it from an apostle.Or they have always believed something to be true because they have always believed it.My point is, that we as members of the Lords true church should study the true doctrines of the gospel and the words of the prophets, and double check our sources, before saying or teaching anything.Sorry a little bit of a rant and soap box.What do you feel about the doctrine vs tradition argument are you tired of hear false teaching and want to hear the pure teachings of Christ.I've got a little bit of patience with it. Mostly because I understood for years something that wasn't correct and then it took me quite awhile to be satisfied that I now understood. The idea of checking things over before teaching them is a good notion, but you are not likely to do it if you don't have any clue that you could be wrong. 1
Glenn101 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 The actual doctrines of the Restored Gospel are really very simple. What one needs to do to attain exaltation have been laid out for us. It does not take an intellectual giant to be able to understand them. I should know. I pretty much understand them, and I have never been misapprehended as such a giant. It doesn't seem to matter if a prophet were to believe that the sun or moon is inhabited, or that the earth is the center of the universe or whatever the prevailing scientific theory may be about this or that. It does not seem to matter if a person believes in the Adam-God theory or in evolution, or not in evolution. It does not even seem to matter if a person is a Republican or a Democrat. What does seem to matter is that a person has faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, repents of their sins, is baptized by immersion by one holding the authority to do so. Then there is the temple endowments and the sealing of the families for time and eternity. After that, comes the "enduring to the end" part. Granted, we should seek greater truth and light, as it is well versed in the Doctrine and Covenants 130:9 "And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come." But, I think following those simple steps will cover a lot of misunderstanding of other aspects of the gospel. Glenn 2
Recommended Posts