Why Would They Stay?

[Rivers]

There are many practical reasons for coming out as gay while still obeying the law of chastity. Its good information for people to know. Especially for women wanting to date you or anybody wanting to set you up on a date.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Rivers

[Thinking]

Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?

 

I have watched my son struggle to find his place in this world as a gay man who presently wants to be a member of the LDS Church. I don't completely understand why either, but I think he feels safe because he feels comfortable - even as a gay man. Being Mormon is what he knows.

 

And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?

 

Young Mormon men are constantly being asked questions about mission plans and marriage plans. I think my son wanted people to stop asking those questions, so he came out and received positive support from many friends and family. I noticed a difference right away. He seemed to be less stressed.

[Rob Osborn]

I think its noble and takes some courage to stay for those gay brothers and sisters. I see it a few different ways however. I see those who have SSA who are in constant conflict between their faith and their desires but continue to not act on their attractions and some of them overcome them, get married, are happy, etc. Kudos to them for working to remain faithful! Then I see the other side where you have active homosexuals who think the church should or will change and are sticking around hoping and waiting that it will one day accommodate them. Then, you have that other group who stick around claiming to be members but really do not want to be more involved, think that the church is led astray, and fight against the church and end up facing councils and excommunication. Sadly, its this last group that sours it for all the others and causes so much discontent.

[Garden Girl]

 

Why would someone stay?  Probably several reasons.  Family.  Community, And a desire to try to please God.  But for me, I felt like I could never make any one of those groups happy.  No matter what, I had disappointed all of them because I was gay.  Oddly enough, I felt the love of God more than I ever had while being in the church.  It is not the church that brings us back to God, but learning the attributes of Godliness while here on earth.  Yeah I am gay.  I have a boyfriend.  I put my trust in God over a church that I don't fully trust is doing God's will.  If when I die, God thrusts me to hell, then so be it. I am willing to take what ever stripes God sees fit to give me for loving my boyfriend.  If God didn't want me to love him, then he shouldn't have made me gay.  If I was straight, it never would have happened.

 

Hello California Boy...

I too know that of course God loves you...but... in no way do I believe that God "made you gay."  I don't think he would purposely "make" any of his children gay... but I do believe that something happened in your physical development of genes and chromosomes that affected you... and millions of others since time began... I doubt that God will "thrust you to hell."  And have no idea how he will judge those who act on their physical nature vs those that do not (particularly in view of the requirement that I as a single person, male or female, live a chaste lifestyle, i.e., overcoming the natural man)... but I do have faith in God's mercy and absolute fairness in judging his children and how they choose to act, in their "light," etc.

 

GG

[Robert F. Smith]

I have a close friend who has a gay son (I've known him too since he was a small boy).  He is completely out and open about being gay and is very active in the church.  He's a very successful doctor and has a lot of friends at church who support him and his decision to live a celibate life.  He has a strong testimony and has even had at least one woman friend of his want to marry him, but he has chosen to remain single at least for now. I have not actually asked him why he stays in the church, but I assume it's because he loves the gospel and believes the church is true and wants to attend the temple and hold callings, etc.  

It could be that he simply chooses not to make sexual attraction into a religion -- ersatz religion.  He may also have a very solid and broad set of basic values.  As to celibacy, there are a number of heterosexuals who lead celibate lives, yet do not feel that they are missing out.

[california boy]

You can love any man without having sexual relations with him, and if you think you can't then you're not talking about love.

And no matter what you do or say you won't please everybody and there is no way you ever can.

 

For me, it has never been about the sex.  That is a very trivial part of our relationship.  I don't fool myself.  The church does not want me to love him and be his partner.  That has been clearly told to me by my local church leaders.  So sadly I have severed my relationship with the church rather than with the man I love.  It is that simple.  No regrets, just sorrow.  

 

I am on this board enough to show that I still do love the church. I just can't be a part of it.  I don't think I am alone.  Thanks for all of your kind words.  I know there are no answers for what I seek.

[Stone holm]

This is just a door closing, opposite of what is needed right now to welcome them back. You of all people I thought would know this. Or did I misunderstand you? So people that really believe in this church and are gay should hide their orientation? There are people in the church that pretend to believe, do you encourage them too?

If a person who self identifies as gay has made the decision to not ever act on the SSA impulses, and to stay in the Church, he or she just borrows trouble by coming out. It means that many Bishops will not call them to certain callings, that many members will avoid them, etc etc. It serves absolutely no purpose to come out. If I were a Bishop and a person came out in confidence to me, my advice would be that having SSA is not in and of itself a sin so long as they did not act upon it, but I would also advise them to keep the subject to themselves and to not in any wise publicize it because it would only cause them grief it were generally known. That might not be politically correct advice, but it is sound advice.

[DBMormon]

At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question.  Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?  And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?  It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion.  The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention.  Am I missing something here?

Many don't want to hide their authentic selves from the world.  They want to be accepted as human being for who they are. That said 70% of them do leave the Church and much of the 30% struggle with staying.

[Ahab]

For me, it has never been about the sex. That is a very trivial part of our relationship. I don't fool myself. The church does not want me to love him and be his partner. That has been clearly told to me by my local church leaders. So sadly I have severed my relationship with the church rather than with the man I love. It is that simple. No regrets, just sorrow.

I am on this board enough to show that I still do love the church. I just can't be a part of it. I don't think I am alone. Thanks for all of your kind words. I know there are no answers for what I seek.

You're supposed to love everybody, and our Church leaders know that and will tell you that, so don't try to feed me any tripe about some Church leader who has allegedly told you that you're not supposed to love some other man. You can righteously love him, and you can be one of his best friends for the rest of his or your life, without having sexual relations with him. In fact it would show that you love him if you didn't have sexual relations with him, because that isn't good for him, or you. Men are for women, and women for men, and you should be helping him to realize why he should have a good woman to share his life with as his wife. That's what righteous man friends should do for each other. The fact that you consider each other to be sexually attractive should help you to realize some of what you have to offer to some good woman.

[thesometimesaint]

To me there is only one reason for anyone to stay in any organization. They believe in it. Life is too short to argue with myself about things I don't believe in.

[Tacenda]

To me there is only one reason for anyone to stay in any organization. They believe in it. Life is too short to argue with myself about things I don't believe in.

When you leave the LDS church, you leave a culture which consists of family, friends, neighbors and co workers, that is if you live in Utah or anywhere with a saturated LDS faith, IMO.  It's not a matter of just walking away, not so easy when people believe that once you leave the faith, you might as well leave your family etc. since a family in the LDS church is tied through temple covenants.  Once that covenant is broken, you're going to end up somewhere else in the hereafter.  Sure your family can visit, but here on earth the family will always feel uncomfortable around you figuring out how best to not leave you out of the conversations but they will still talk a lot about church things and it will be a thorn in their sides that they may have to curtail anything to do with church talk or activity.  They will have to choose between church worship and maybe things their non member family does on a Sunday to have time with them.  The church is #1 in priority, or God is, and God is running the church.  So it's not as simple that TSS, it may be easier to just fake it to be part of the group.   

[thesometimesaint]

When you leave the LDS church, you leave a culture which consists of family, friends, neighbors and co workers, that is if you live in Utah or anywhere with a saturated LDS faith, IMO.  It's not a matter of just walking away, not so easy when people believe that once you leave the faith, you might as well leave your family etc. since a family in the LDS church is tied through temple covenants.  Once that covenant is broken, you're going to end up somewhere else in the hereafter.  Sure your family can visit, but here on earth the family will always feel uncomfortable around you figuring out how best to not leave you out of the conversations but they will still talk a lot about church things and it will be a thorn in their sides that they may have to curtail anything to do with church talk or activity.  They will have to choose between church worship and maybe things their non member family does on a Sunday to have time with them.  The church is #1 in priority, or God is, and God is running the church.  So it's not as simple that TSS, it may be easier to just fake it to be part of the group.   

 

Except for two years in Zion I've live all of my life out in Sodom and Gomorrah. I don't know saturated but there are 5 LDS families in my little two block neighborhood. I'm good friends with members and non-members alike. While I would love the non-members to become members they still are my friends.

Life is just too short to fake it, and seems rather hypocritical to me to do so.

[ERayR]

When you leave the LDS church, you leave a culture which consists of family, friends, neighbors and co workers, that is if you live in Utah or anywhere with a saturated LDS faith, IMO.  It's not a matter of just walking away, not so easy when people believe that once you leave the faith, you might as well leave your family etc. since a family in the LDS church is tied through temple covenants.  Once that covenant is broken, you're going to end up somewhere else in the hereafter.  Sure your family can visit, but here on earth the family will always feel uncomfortable around you figuring out how best to not leave you out of the conversations but they will still talk a lot about church things and it will be a thorn in their sides that they may have to curtail anything to do with church talk or activity.  They will have to choose between church worship and maybe things their non member family does on a Sunday to have time with them.  The church is #1 in priority, or God is, and God is running the church.  So it's not as simple that TSS, it may be easier to just fake it to be part of the group.   

 

Question:  Why should the family walk on eggshells and avoid normal family discussion topics because one has decided to leave the Church? 

[carbon dioxide]

At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question.  Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?  And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?  It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion.  The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention.  Am I missing something here?

 

At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question.  Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?  And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?  It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion.  The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention.  Am I missing something here?

 

I am not a gay person but I would think that if a person has a strong testimony in the restored church that the restoration is far more important then their sexual orientation.  At some point in our lives we are all going to die.  If on believes there is something beyond death and that something lasts a very very long time, one might want to prepare now for that.  What is gained by a gay member leaving the Church for a brief moment in their existence (mortality) and then having to pay for their decision in the eternities for leaving the Church.  I believe that if God showed every person who has left the Church just 10 seconds of what their decision will cost them in the Spirit world and resurrection,  they would rush back to the church and beg to be rebaptized.  What does it profit a gay person to leave the Church for homosexuality but lose his own soul in the process.

[california boy]

If a person who self identifies as gay has made the decision to not ever act on the SSA impulses, and to stay in the Church, he or she just borrows trouble by coming out. It means that many Bishops will not call them to certain callings, that many members will avoid them, etc etc. It serves absolutely no purpose to come out. If I were a Bishop and a person came out in confidence to me, my advice would be that having SSA is not in and of itself a sin so long as they did not act upon it, but I would also advise them to keep the subject to themselves and to not in any wise publicize it because it would only cause them grief it were generally known. That might not be politically correct advice, but it is sound advice.

except to be released from living a lie every day of their lives.  

 

Ultimately that is the reason I finally came out.  When you know that people think you are straight even though you are not, you also know you can not trust their love or friendship with you.  Sure they say you are a wonderful guy, that they love you and your friendship means a lot to them.  But deep down inside, you always wonder "if they knew I was gay would they still be my friend?  Would they still be able to love me."  In the end, you want to be loved whether you are straight or gay.  The only way to know if they really love you is to tell them who you are.  As it turns out, I lost pretty much all my friends in the ward.  Only a couple of them even contacted me again.  To them, I was not the same person they thought I was.  And the thing that upset my family the very most is they felt like I had lied to them.

 

You got it wrong.  From someone who tried has lived it.

[california boy]

You're supposed to love everybody, and our Church leaders know that and will tell you that, so don't try to feed me any tripe about some Church leader who has allegedly told you that you're not supposed to love some other man. You can righteously love him, and you can be one of his best friends for the rest of his or your life, without having sexual relations with him. In fact it would show that you love him if you didn't have sexual relations with him, because that isn't good for him, or you. Men are for women, and women for men, and you should be helping him to realize why he should have a good woman to share his life with as his wife. That's what righteous man friends should do for each other. The fact that you consider each other to be sexually attractive should help you to realize some of what you have to offer to some good woman.

 

TRIPE?  You are talking about my life here.  I had very extensive discussions with my church leaders about this very subject.  I was specifically told that if I wanted to be a member in good standing, I could not live with another man even if we never had sexual relationships.  I could not kiss him.  I could not hold his hand.  I could not even go to the movies if I viewed it as a date.  

 

If they had offered the choices you now offer, perhaps I could have stayed in the church.  I wanted it to work.  There is a difference between loving everyone and being in love.  Being in love is not on the table for gay members.

[Buckeye]

At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question.  Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?  And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?  It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion.  The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention.  Am I missing something here?

 

 

1) Because the person has hope that they can change their orientation or that the church will change its doctrine. Currently both the changes are unlikely.

 

2) Because the person wants to clear up confusion and the negative consequences of the confusion. Any active LDS man who is unmarried by 30 starts to have his sexuality questioned. So many men (and I assume women) find it helpful to publicly announce their orientation in order to avoid the gossip. For gay men, it can also help deflect unwanted dates or misleading women into thinking you might be the one.

[california boy]

Question:  Why should the family walk on eggshells and avoid normal family discussion topics because one has decided to leave the Church? 

 

Well in my case, I stopped getting invited to family events, even missionary farewells and baptisms of my nieces and nephews.  When I asked why, my dad told me that the family got together and decided that if just one of the family members were uncomfortable with me being there, then I wouldn't be invited.  I have no idea what they thought I was going to do.  I felt like I was the exact same person they had always know.  They just knew something more about me that had always been there.  

 

I found out from my sister that they all thought I would move to San Francisco, join the "gay lifestyle", whatever that means, abandon my children and never see them again.  I guess I disappointed them by still caring about family.  Fear is a powerful emotion.

 

Things change over time.  I still spent time with my kids.  They were all grown adults when I came out, so it was not some court ordered time share thing.  My father started to want to see me without the need to tell me I was going to hell every time he saw me.  He met by boyfriend for the first time last year.  They got along great..  It was as if his signal of friendship gave them all permission to once again interact with me.  This Christmas my boyfriend was invited for the first time to meet the kids.  I saw nephews who are now married that I hadn't seen since they were 10 years old.  No drama.  No awkward moments.  All these years were wasted simply because of fear.

 

Though I am just one voice, I hope my posts are giving you insight into this delicate issue.  They are not met to be derogative in any way.  I never fault my family for how long it has taken.  I remind myself how long it took me to deal with being gay.  It still doesn't mean there is not sorrow involved.

[rockpond]

Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church?

 

Because they believe in the truthfulness of the restored gospel.  Or they love the church, the good it does, and how they feel when being a part of it.

 

And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"?

 

I wonder about that as well.  It seems like it would just make their lives harder but as I understand it, many feel that they have to do it as a matter of personal integrity.

[Ahab]

TRIPE? You are talking about my life here.

No I was talking about what you said when you said some Church leader told you, allegedly, that you should not love the man you say you love. That is total BS. No leader of the Church would tell somebody to not love somebody else. And if you were just trying to paraphrase what he said you did not do it right.

I had very extensive discussions with my church leaders about this very subject. I was specifically told that if I wanted to be a member in good standing, I could not live with another man even if we never had sexual relationships.

Should not, maybe, as advice to help you avoid temptation, but I doubt that he said you "could not". You easily could, even against his advice.

I could not kiss him. I could not hold his hand. I could not even go to the movies if I viewed it as a date.

Sounds to me like either he did not choose his words carefully or you're not using the words that he used. Just as a "straight" man should not share a house or apartment with a woman as a roommate, because of possible temptations and weaknesses, a "gay" man shouldn't either, but either feasibly can. And displays of affection aren't necessarily bad in either case.

If they had offered the choices you now offer, perhaps I could have stayed in the church. I wanted it to work. There is a difference between loving everyone and being in love. Being in love is not on the table for gay members.

Again, total BS. Some people obviously just don't know what it means to be "in love" or they don't know there is nothing wrong with it.

And I want you to know that I know there is nothing wrong with being gay or straight, or considering men and/or women to be sexually attractive. Everyone is, in some way, at least in certain conditions, and nobody should be leaving the Church just because they have a sexual attraction to someone. We should just be careful to not do anything that isn't righteous with anyone of either sex.

[california boy]

No I was talking about what you said when you said some Church leader told you, allegedly, that you should not love the man you say you love. That is total BS. No leader of the Church would tell somebody to not love somebody else. And if you were just trying to paraphrase what he said you did not do it right.

Should not, maybe, as advice to help you avoid temptation, but I doubt that he said you "could not". You easily could, even against his advice.

Sounds to me like either he did not choose his words carefully or you're not using the words that he used. Just as a "straight" man should not share a house or apartment with a woman as a roommate, because of possible temptations and weaknesses, a "gay" man shouldn't either, but either feasibly can. And displays of affection aren't necessarily bad in either case.

Again, total BS. Some people obviously just don't know what it means to be "in love" or they don't know there is nothing wrong with it.

And I want you to know that I know there is nothing wrong with being gay or straight, or considering men and/or women to be sexually attractive. Everyone is, in some way, at least in certain conditions, and nobody should be leaving the Church just because they have a sexual attraction to someone. We should just be careful to not do anything that isn't righteous with anyone of either sex.

 

I am not sharing my experiences to debate you, but only to share.  I am only one guy.  I can only relate the clear directions that were given to me.  If you think I am lying, so be it.  I hope others had a different experience if that is now permitted.  

[Stone holm]

Many don't want to hide their authentic selves from the world.  They want to be accepted as human being for who they are. That said 70% of them do leave the Church and much of the 30% struggle with staying.

Really? Be accepted as a broken person in need of being fixed in the hereafter? Why does that sound like attention getting.

[cinepro]

True, having a man-crush does not make me gay.

 

It's guy-love.

[The Nehor]

It's guy-love.

Right after I hit post on that that song started in my head. So what I am asking is are you some kind of wizard?

[Robert F. Smith]

Right after I hit post on that that song started in my head. So what I am asking is are you some kind of wizard?

It is  not for nothing that cinepro affects the avatar of Yoda.