Stone holm Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here?
The Nehor Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 You are assuming that people act rationally. We don't. You probably don't either.I wish that God/the Church will excuse my favorite sin one day too. 1
JAHS Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Don't know why they would "come out" about it, but they might stay in the church in the hopes that in the eternal future God will make corrections at the resurrection that will result in normal attractions so they can get sealed to someone and eventually obtain exaltation. It would require a very strong testimony in the gospel and in God's love for that person.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here?All it takes to be gay is an awareness of the fact that someone of the same sex is sexually attractive, although the term gay is usually reserved for men, with women called lesbian.That's all it takes, even if someone never has sexual relations with someone of the same sex.So, with that understanding, I have no problem at all with acknowledging the fact that I can see and feel and understand how someone can consider someone of the same sex to be sexually attractive, and frankly, I don't really understand why everybody else doesn't. I mean, are women really supposed to be the only kind of people who can see and feel and understand how and when and which men are sexually attractive? Are men somehow supposed to be blind to the fact that they are? I am sexy and I know it. Don't you know that you are? Don't you see and feel and understand how everybody is, in some way, or at least could be in certain conditions? I think I'm just one of those men who isn't afraid let others know that I am someone who can see and feel and understand what it means to be gay. It isn't necessarily a bad thing.
cinepro Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 All it takes to be gay is an awareness of the fact that someone of the same sex is sexually attractive, although the term gay is usually reserved for men, with women called lesbian. That's all it takes, even if someone never has sexual relations with someone of the same sex. I think you are seriously misrepresenting the degree of attraction needed before someone could be classified as homosexual. It's not an "awareness". 1
ALarson Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here?I have a close friend who has a gay son (I've known him too since he was a small boy). He is completely out and open about being gay and is very active in the church. He's a very successful doctor and has a lot of friends at church who support him and his decision to live a celibate life. He has a strong testimony and has even had at least one woman friend of his want to marry him, but he has chosen to remain single at least for now. I have not actually asked him why he stays in the church, but I assume it's because he loves the gospel and believes the church is true and wants to attend the temple and hold callings, etc. Edited January 15, 2015 by ALarson 3
Tacenda Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here?Why do you stay?
stemelbow Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here? Well why do members stay at all? Because they believe, mostly. I wouldn't ever want to belie someone who is gay and wants to continue at Church. He/she believes.
ERayR Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 All it takes to be gay is an awareness of the fact that someone of the same sex is sexually attractive, although the term gay is usually reserved for men, with women called lesbian.That's all it takes, even if someone never has sexual relations with someone of the same sex.So, with that understanding, I have no problem at all with acknowledging the fact that I can see and feel and understand how someone can consider someone of the same sex to be sexually attractive, and frankly, I don't really understand why everybody else doesn't.I mean, are women really supposed to be the only kind of people who can see and feel and understand how and when and which men are sexually attractive? Are men somehow supposed to be blind to the fact that they are?I am sexy and I know it. Don't you know that you are? Don't you see and feel and understand how everybody is, in some way, or at least could be in certain conditions?I think I'm just one of those men who isn't afraid let others know that I am someone who can see and feel and understand what it means to be gay. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. No, I am sorry I do not.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I think you are seriously misrepresenting the degree of attraction needed before someone could be classified as homosexual. It's not an "awareness".You don't have to be a nymphomaniac for people of the same sex. All it takes is the same type of attraction to someone of the same sex as someone who is considered "straight" has to someone of the opposite sex. I'm attracted to people of both sexes so it's easy to compare attractions for each, which for me is about the same, although I realize men and women are different.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 No, I am sorry I do not.I won't hold it against you. I just figure I have an awareness of something that you are not aware of. All people are sexually attractive or at least can be in certain conditions. If you don't think you are sexually attractive maybe asking your wife why she thinks you are will increase your awareness, at least a little.
The Nehor Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I think you are seriously misrepresenting the degree of attraction needed before someone could be classified as homosexual. It's not an "awareness".True, having a man-crush does not make me gay. 1
Ahab Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 True, having a man-crush does not make me gay.Awareness. Attraction. Whatever you would call it. Maybe you're just not as aware or as attracted to men, or even women, as I am.
ERayR Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 I won't hold it against you. I just figure I have an awareness of something that you are not aware of. All people are sexually attractive or at least can be in certain conditions. If you don't think you are sexually attractive maybe asking your wife why she thinks you are will increase your awareness, at least a little. My wife once told me she picked me because I was handsome and would take care of her and all the kids she was going to have. At the time it didn't seem like a romantic answer. 1
rongo Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? A brother from my ward was excommunicated for homosexuality when I was bishop. He was supportive of the disciplinary process up until the actual disciplinary council itself (stake level), when he told me he was going to just resign. What difference does it make? he asked. I told him there was a huge difference between voluntarily resigning and submitting to the priesthood in the disciplinary process. He attended, and it was a good experience (he bore a strong testimony that he knew that God exists and has felt his love, but that God had to give up on him. Not out of malice or impugning God's love or mercy, but simply that God had to finally give up on him). Surprisingly, he announced at the end that he would never again go through the doorway of an LDS Church again. Surprising, because he had expressed nothing like this previously or during the council. He told us all that he also wanted no further contact with the Church. I was surprised after this to find him still regularly attending Church. I left him some space for a couple of weeks, given his adamant wishes he had made known. Finally, I asked if he had a few minutes after sacrament meeting. I told him I was thrilled to see him at church, and asked him if he minded sharing why (given how adamantly he had expressed his intentions). He told me that the Church is true, all of it, and that there was simply no other thing for him to do other than continue to come to church. He did make it clear that he had no intention of doing what he needed to do to be re-baptized, but that he would continue to attend. I thought of this given your above question in the OP, Stone holm. 2
CV75 Posted January 15, 2015 Posted January 15, 2015 Am I missing something here?I don't know, but perhaps the question should be asked without focusing exclusively on gays. I think sexual preference alone, wherever it may fall the broad scale, needn’t impede a person from receiving the Light of Christ and a witness from the Holy Ghost, making and keeping the covenants, etc. Only disobedience to these things can do that. I think the situations where the Holy Ghost actually inspires someone to intentionally announce his sexual preference, whether to many people or to only one, would be very rare. Human nature as it is, there is any number of other motivators for people to share that, and many ways it can unintentionally be shared, but even those instances needn’t discourage one from full participation—depends on how strong his conviction and how he chooses to see himself in terms of his spiritual and sexual being (and in terms of his physical, and imperfect, and beautiful, and wonderful, and divine and fallen being as well).
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) deleted Edited January 16, 2015 by Tacenda
california boy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I will be glad to tell you my perspective. For many years, I never let anyone know I was gay. I though I could keep it hidden. But you feel you are lying to everyone. They all think you are straight, but you feel like you are deceiving them. It is a horrible lie to live with. In the end I couldn't keep doing it. When the time was right, I came out to everyone and quite frankly by then, I could care less what they thought. It was more important to myself to get out from under that lie. Why would someone stay? Probably several reasons. Family. Community, And a desire to try to please God. But for me, I felt like I could never make any one of those groups happy. No matter what, I had disappointed all of them because I was gay. Oddly enough, I felt the love of God more than I ever had while being in the church. It is not the church that brings us back to God, but learning the attributes of Godliness while here on earth. Yeah I am gay. I have a boyfriend. I put my trust in God over a church that I don't fully trust is doing God's will. If when I die, God thrusts me to hell, then so be it. I am willing to take what ever stripes God sees fit to give me for loving my boyfriend. If God didn't want me to love him, then he shouldn't have made me gay. If I was straight, it never would have happened. 2
ERayR Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I will be glad to tell you my perspective. For many years, I never let anyone know I was gay. I though I could keep it hidden. But you feel you are lying to everyone. They all think you are straight, but you feel like you are deceiving them. It is a horrible lie to live with. In the end I couldn't keep doing it. When the time was right, I came out to everyone and quite frankly by then, I could care less what they thought. It was more important to myself to get out from under that lie. Why would someone stay? Probably several reasons. Family. Community, And a desire to try to please God. But for me, I felt like I could never make any one of those groups happy. No matter what, I had disappointed all of them because I was gay. Oddly enough, I felt the love of God more than I ever had while being in the church. It is not the church that brings us back to God, but learning the attributes of Godliness while here on earth. Yeah I am gay. I have a boyfriend. I put my trust in God over a church that I don't fully trust is doing God's will. If when I die, God thrusts me to hell, then so be it. I am willing to take what ever stripes God sees fit to give me for loving my boyfriend. If God didn't want me to love him, then he shouldn't have made me gay. If I was straight, it never would have happened. Part of the mortal experience, IMNSHO, is to find where they are comfortable and happy. 2
Ham Clam Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 At the risk of starting another thread on gays, I do have a question. Why would any person who self-identified as gay, stay in the Church? And a much more perplexing question is, why would any person who self-identifies as gay and who is not acting upon his/her sexual attraction ever "come out"? It seems to me that there would be absolutely no benefit to be gained by a person who had decided never to move from attraction to action to ever come out as gay, the only possible thing to be gained in such a situation is potential shunning, stigma and suspicion. The only reason besides attempting to change the Church for such a person to "come out", would seem to be a desire to gain attention. Am I missing something here?Read some of the essays from North Star's Voices of Hope.
Ahab Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I will be glad to tell you my perspective. For many years, I never let anyone know I was gay. I though I could keep it hidden. But you feel you are lying to everyone. They all think you are straight, but you feel like you are deceiving them. It is a horrible lie to live with. In the end I couldn't keep doing it. When the time was right, I came out to everyone and quite frankly by then, I could care less what they thought. It was more important to myself to get out from under that lie.Why would someone stay? Probably several reasons. Family. Community, And a desire to try to please God. But for me, I felt like I could never make any one of those groups happy. No matter what, I had disappointed all of them because I was gay. Oddly enough, I felt the love of God more than I ever had while being in the church. It is not the church that brings us back to God, but learning the attributes of Godliness while here on earth. Yeah I am gay. I have a boyfriend. I put my trust in God over a church that I don't fully trust is doing God's will. If when I die, God thrusts me to hell, then so be it. I am willing to take what ever stripes God sees fit to give me for loving my boyfriend. If God didn't want me to love him, then he shouldn't have made me gay. If I was straight, it never would have happened.You can love any man without having sexual relations with him, and if you think you can't then you're not talking about love.And no matter what you do or say you won't please everybody and there is no way you ever can.
Stone holm Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Why do you stay?Because I believe the doctrine of the Church is true, even if I do not believe its politics, or necessarily trust all of its leaders. I can understand why a person who self identified as gay staying in the Church, although if I did, I wouldn't . But I do not understand at all why such a person would "come out" except to gain attention. There simply , IMNSHO is no upside in doing so.
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Because I believe the doctrine of the Church is true, even if I do not believe its politics, or necessarily trust all of its leaders. I can understand why a person who self identified as gay staying in the Church, although if I did, I wouldn't . But I do not understand at all why such a person would "come out" except to gain attention. There simply , IMNSHO is no upside in doing so.This is just a door closing, opposite of what is needed right now to welcome them back. You of all people I thought would know this. Or did I misunderstand you? So people that really believe in this church and are gay should hide their orientation? There are people in the church that pretend to believe, do you encourage them too?
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