Is The Church Against Cosmetic Surgery?

[djones]

So my wife wants to get a "mommy makeover" but she's concerned about how the church would look upon this. 3 kids have taken it's toll on her body and she's struggled with self esteem issues her whole life. She knows the pros and cons and knows that this won't solve the deeper issues with her self image (she's seeing a therapist too and working on all of that) but at the same time she really feels like it would give her just the boost she needs to finally feel good about her body. She works out regularly, eats well, and is trying hard to take care of herself but at 40 it's just not producing the desired results and she's really frustrated and it's affecting her emotionally quite a bit and her body image/self esteem is suffering. She's read the testimonials about how women who have done this have loved it and feel like a whole new person and the prospect of that is exciting. But she's a very spiritual woman too and wants to do the right thing.

 

So we're primarily looking for 2 things here:

 

1) If there are any faithful LDS women who have done this (and are wiling to share....) will you post your experiences? Was it worth it? Would you do it again? Pros/Cons? Do you worry about what you'll tell your children later if they ask? Is it a paradox to do this but then teach about not being vain to your kids and in church? Can you honestly do this and say that you are still following the prophet? Etc.

 

2)  I want to know if there is any hard doctrine from the church that says they are against such a surgery? Do the handbooks say anything? I'm guessing there isn't anything cut and dry as the church would have a small revolution on their hands if they flat out said not to do it (Lots of faithful latter day saint women have done it....I can point out several in our ward as I'm sure you can too). It's probably more of a "follow the spirit and decide for yourself" situation but I'm curious if anyone knows of any specific counsel.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 5, 2015 by djones

[Duncan]

I've never heard anything against it, I don't know anyone who has had cosmetic surgery either only surgery to fix stuff

[strappinglad]

I know of no Church policy on cosmetic surgery. The Brethren got into enough trouble when they mentioned earrings. I would make sure you use the most reputable of surgeons as there are some horrible outcomes possible. She should be prepared for serious pain from some of the procedures.

A doctor in our area, Dr. Taylor, did some procedures on ladies. His efforts were commonly called, " Taylor mades " or " Taylors Maids " if you will. Therefore she could receive some untoward attention.

Edited January 5, 2015 by strappinglad

[Garden Girl]

One of my pet peeves is the lumping together (by insurance companies) of numerous surgical procedures as "cosmetic" and thus not covering them... when actually there are health issues involved in choosing these surgeries.

Example:  A woman or man is quite heavy, even obese.  On the advice of their doctor, they go into a planned and supervised weight loss to benefit from improved health in several areas, i.e., lowering blood pressure, reducing risk of heart disease, helping alleviate Type II diabetes which can affect the body organs, etc  etc... Once they have lost the weight, they are often left with excess skin, particularly in the stomach area.  This excess skin can cause health problems such as rashes within or under the folds of skin that can become infected, cause itching or pain, etc.  The person would like to have a "tummy tuck" to remedy the situation, but the insurance company will not allow or cover this type of surgery because they deem it "cosmetic."  Never mind that the excess skin is a result of action taken to lose weight to prevent even solve health problems and extend life... so, many people find it difficult to personally afford such surgery without insurance, so they must put up with the skin conditions that could have been alleviated by the surgery.  And, having to wear various types of girdles, supports, etc to manage the skin.

 

Why should the Church object to a "tummy tuck" or similar surgery?  In my old age, I've got sagging eyelids that can be irritated, itchy, etc.  They could use a surgical procedure. or "eye job" but I can't afford it because my insurance won't cover it... IMO your wife should be able to make her decision, with you, after researching all the health issures for her age, and go from there.

 

GG

 

 

[sunstoned]

My wife has had some "cosmetic" surgery as have others in our ward.  As it should be, there is no church policy against it as this is a personal decision and does not concern the church.

[Calm]

My only advice is to keep chest size reasonable and as little scarred as possible. Lots of baggage (i was naturally endowed and hated every minute of it, hated the surgery as well once the morphine wore off but less than not having the surgery) in the front equals backaches and migraines and scarring decreases sensitivity, pleasure can become pain. Sorry if too explicit...I will erase it if I see TMI and if anyone wants more details, PM me. Dont know anything below the waist....

Edited January 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[Sleeper Cell]

When this subject comes up, I’m always reminded of J. Golden Kimball’s advice when some of the local brethren were bemoaning the increased use of cosmetics.  “You paint your barns, don’t you?  Aren’t your wives entitled to at least as much consideration as your barns?”  I would imagine he would say something similar about cosmetic surgery.

 

And J. Golden would be the last person anyone would accuse of  condoning vanity

[Tacenda]

I think Utah has more providers for plastic surgery than any other state or by judging all the billboards they do. And people say it's because women have so many children etc. I know women personally that have had it who are LDS and the church doesn't have a say about it, nor do they probably want to. But do think it funny when I see tatooed eyeliner and eyebrows. Which I'd love to get btw, since my eyebrows are so thin.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Tacenda

[PurpleMinion]

I am a faithful LDS woman who has had cosmetic surgery. I was not, erm, blessed with proportionality in my top half. I do not regret my surgery at all. In fact I love them. So does my faithful LDS husband, BTW. It is my strong opinion that women especially must feel attractive even to themselves. Not to be dramatic, but not feeling comfortable in your own body can be detrimental. Genetics are not perfect, we take extreme measures to fix all sorts of problems that we are born with or from the wears and tears of life. I say if you can afford it without hardship, go for it.

[CV75]

So we're primarily looking for 2 things here:

We can ask ourselves, "Is this x-y-z surgery like unto a tattoo, piercing or really big pair of earrings?"

[tonie]

2)  I want to know if there is any hard doctrine from the church that says they are against such a surgery? Do the handbooks say anything? I'm guessing there isn't anything cut and dry as the church would have a small revolution on their hands if they flat out said not to do it (Lots of faithful latter day saint women have done it....I can point out several in our ward as I'm sure you can too). It's probably more of a "follow the spirit and decide for yourself" situation but I'm curious if anyone knows of any specific counsel.

 

Thanks!

 

Elder Holland, General Conference, October 2005

 

"I plead with you ... to please be more accepting of yourselves, including your body shape and style, with a little less longing to look like someone else. We are all different. Some are tall, and some are short. Some are round, and some are thin. And almost everyone at some time or other wants to be something they are not!....

 

In terms of preoccupation with self and a fixation on the physical, this is more than social insanity; it is spiritually destructive, and it accounts for much of the unhappiness women, including young women, face in the modern world. And if adults are preoccupied with appearance—tucking and nipping and implanting and remodeling everything that can be remodeled—those pressures and anxieties will certainly seep through to children. At some point the problem becomes what the Book of Mormon called “vain imaginations.” And in secular society both vanity and imagination run wild. One would truly need a great and spacious makeup kit to compete with beauty as portrayed in media all around us. Yet at the end of the day there would still be those “in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers” as Lehi saw, because however much one tries in the world of glamour and fashion, it will never be glamorous enough."

[pogi]

As with everything, there is a balance and each side must be carefully considered, and each case is unique.

To me, there is nothing more beautiful than a confident women, who is comfortable in her own skin, but is surgery always necessary to accomplish that?  I personally am attracted to confidence and light, more than "sexiness".  I respect and find women beautiful who are comfortable and confident in their imperfections, who do not fear aging and its physical consequences, but rather embrace it as a natural and beautiful process in it's own way.  I am saddened that the word "beauty" has become synonymous with "sexy". 

 

It is my strong opinion that women especially must feel attractive even to themselves. 

 

Did you mean to say that women should feel "beautiful" to themselves?  The idea of being attracted to oneself seems strange to me.  What about a girl who has not been endowed with the physical qualities that society has deemed "attractive"?  Can she ever feel attractive to herself, or is she doomed to a life physical insecurity?  The word "attractive" has sexual connotations, whereas profound beauty can be found in something as ordinary as a rock.  I truly feel empathy for women who have to live in comparison with the media.  It would be extremely difficult to divorce oneself from societies definitions of beauty, but until they can stop comparing, they will never feel whole and comfortable in their own skin.  We age, we sag, we wrinkle, we are imperfect, and I only wish that we could all accept that this is all beautiful. 

 

I tend to favor the approach of radical self-acceptance over radical makeovers.  Easier said than done, I know, but I have always been an idealist. 

 

not feeling comfortable in your own body can be detrimental. Genetics are not perfect, we take extreme measures to fix all sorts of problems that we are born with or from the wears and tears of life. I say if you can afford it without hardship, go for it.

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds like this attitude only serves to drive another wedge between those who have money and those who do not have money.  It will only give the poor one more reason to be insecure and feel less beautiful because they don't have money.  That is sad to me. 

 

 

Can you see the beauty in this face?  Can you see that she is confident and comfortable in her own skin?  This is what woman should strive for in my humble opinion - to be confident and beautiful like this woman.  To me, her face and light is more beautiful than any natural wonder of earth!

 

Let me clarify that I do feel that cosmetic surgery is not always wrong.  If something is causing other health problems which can be resolved through cosmetic surgery, than I am all for it.  Again, it should all be taken on a case by case basis with the goal of emotional and spiritual transformation over physical transformation. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by pogi

[bluebell]

We can ask ourselves, "Is this x-y-z surgery like unto a tattoo, piercing or really big pair of earrings?"

 

I think this is the key.

 

Is the surgery about our pride?  Us wanting to gain attention thru the use of our bodies?  Us wanting the adulation of looking a certain way?  Us wanting to look better than other people our age/with as many kids/whatever reason?  Will we squander money on it (for selfish reasons) that we should be using for better things?

 

I think cosmetic surgery can be a wonderful thing, or it can be a sinful thing, depending on why we want to do it.  But I also don't think anyone can judge which it is in another person's life.  It's really none of our business.  If someone is doing it for the wrong reasons then that's between them and God.  I've got enough of my own sins to worry about.

 

The only thing that annoys me about cosmetic surgery is that it's almost contagious in some church wards.  One mom does it and suddenly half of the women in the ward feel worse about their own bodies because one woman now looks better than they do (thru no laudable reason that should affect anyone else's self esteem).  

 

It starts to be about keeping up with the Joneses sometimes and that's annoying, whether it has to do with tummy tucks or the size of your big screen t.v.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

We can ask ourselves, "Is this x-y-z surgery like unto a tattoo, piercing or really big pair of earrings?"

Or orthodontics or circumcision. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by SeekingUnderstanding

[tonie]

 

So we're primarily looking for 2 things here:

 

1) If there are any faithful LDS women who have done this (and are wiling to share....) will you post your experiences? Was it worth it? Would you do it again? Pros/Cons? Do you worry about what you'll tell your children later if they ask? Is it a paradox to do this but then teach about not being vain to your kids and in church? Can you honestly do this and say that you are still following the prophet? Etc.

 

2)  I want to know if there is any hard doctrine from the church that says they are against such a surgery? Do the handbooks say anything? I'm guessing there isn't anything cut and dry as the church would have a small revolution on their hands if they flat out said not to do it (Lots of faithful latter day saint women have done it....I can point out several in our ward as I'm sure you can too). It's probably more of a "follow the spirit and decide for yourself" situation but I'm curious if anyone knows of any specific counsel.

 

Thanks!

 

As can be read in Elder Hollands 2005 General Conference talk, there IS something "cut and dry" stated/published about it.  And as you can see from the responses here, and in your own ward - members of the Church will do as they please and find ways to justify their actions. I am not saying the picking and choosing is a bad thing, it is just a reality of our lives and a common course of action in terms of following what we are taught. I think we all do this.

 

I can think of a reason for cosmetic surgery, and that would be a medical condition directly attributable to the area of the body that the surgery is designed to correct - that is, there is documented peer reviewed medical research that said elective surgery has a very high probability of alleviating the medical condition/medical discomfort.

[thesometimesaint]

As can be read in Elder Hollands 2005 General Conference talk, there IS something "cut and dry" stated/published about it.  And as you can see from the responses here, and in your own ward - members of the Church will do as they please and find ways to justify their actions. I am not saying the picking and choosing is a bad thing, it is just a reality of our lives and a common course of action in terms of following what we are taught. I think we all do this.

 

I can think of a reason for cosmetic surgery, and that would be a medical condition directly attributable to the area of the body that the surgery is designed to correct - that is, there is documented peer reviewed medical research that said elective surgery has a very high probability of alleviating the medical condition/medical discomfort.

 

While everyone should seriously consider the ramification(s) of any surgery. There is no medical distinction between physiological and psychological distress.

[pogi]

While everyone should seriously consider the ramification(s) of any surgery. There is no medical distinction between physiological and psychological distress.

 

Yes there is a medical distinction.  The etiology of each is quite different and require unique interventions.  Typically, physical symptoms and manifestations cannot be treated with psychological interventions, and vise versa. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by pogi

[thesometimesaint]

Yes there is a medical distinction.  The etiology of each is quite different and require unique interventions.  Typically, physical symptoms and manifestations cannot be treated with psychological interventions, and vise versa. 

 

Is your brain a psychological or a physiological organ?

[pogi]

Is your brain a psychological or a physiological organ?

 

I guess you are right, it works both ways.  I knew it would have been cheaper and easier for my mom to go to a shrink instead of having a life saving mastectomy!  Do you have a good reference for a surgeon I can call who can cure my friends PTSD once and for all?  

Different etiologies require different interventions. 

(these are made-up scenarios) 

Edited January 5, 2015 by pogi

[cinepro]

When it comes to plastic surgery, we should remember that our bodies are Temples.  And even the Church gives the Temples a makeover (including structural changes) after a few decades to keep them looking their best.

 

But that being said, if I were a Bishop, I wouldn't call anyone who had "elective" plastic surgery to serve in the Young Women's program.

Edited January 5, 2015 by cinepro

[PurpleMinion]

Did you mean to say that women should feel "beautiful" to themselves?  The idea of being attracted to oneself seems strange to me.  What about a girl who has not been endowed with the physical qualities that society has deemed "attractive"?  Can she ever feel attractive to herself, or is she doomed to a life physical insecurity?  The word "attractive" has sexual connotations, whereas profound beauty can be found in something as ordinary as a rock.  I truly feel empathy for women who have to live in comparison with the media.  It would be extremely difficult to divorce oneself from societies definitions of beauty, but until they can stop comparing, they will never feel whole and comfortable in their own skin.  We age, we sag, we wrinkle, we are imperfect, and I only wish that we could all accept that this is all beautiful. 

Well as a matter of fact I meant both beautiful and "attractive." I did not, however, mean attracted TO oneself. That is weird. But we are sexual beings, pogi, and sex is a very large part of a marriage. If *I* do not feel that I am attractive, *I* do not tend to get into the mood, and eventually that would probably be destructive to my marriage. Before you take that and run, let me say that obviously sex is not the only important part of a marriage, but I'd say it's at least 1/3. It isn't vanity, and it isn't comparison. We really do have self-images that have to be taken care of, physically and emotionally. 

 

Before I waste more time and energy, you seem to have severely twisted most of my words so I'm going to stop. The original poster asked for people's stories and I gave mine.

[PurpleMinion]

But that being said, if I were a Bishop, I wouldn't call anyone who had "elective" plastic surgery to serve in the Young Women's program.

Ouch. And more importantly, WHY would my bishop ever know? I would never volunteer this information to my bishop in order to warn him that I wasn't right for YW. You can't guess it by looking at people contrary to what magazines would like to tell you unless you go full Michael Jackson.

[Calm]

Before you take that and run, let me say that obviously sex is not the only important part of a marriage, but I'd say it's at least 1/3.

 

I hope for the sake of all those couples who have limited or no sexual intimacy due to health issues that the percentage is variable and can be a lot, lot less.

[cinepro]

Ouch. And more importantly, WHY would my bishop ever know? I would never volunteer this information to my bishop in order to warn him that I wasn't right for YW. You can't guess it by looking at people contrary to what magazines would like to tell you unless you go full Michael Jackson.

 

I didn't say your Bishop.  I said "If I was a Bishop", and I'll never be a Bishop, so it was an illustrative way to convey my feelings about cosmetic surgery, not a practical statement of proposed policy.  Especially not in my ward, where the Young Women's program would be absolutely decimated.

Edited January 5, 2015 by cinepro

[pogi]

Before I waste more time and energy, you seem to have severely twisted most of my words so I'm going to stop. The original poster asked for people's stories and I gave mine.

 

I'm sorry if I twisted your words or came off judgmental.  It was not my intention to judge you or mischaracterize you.

 

Well as a matter of fact I meant both beautiful and "attractive." I did not, however, mean attracted TO oneself. That is weird. But we are sexual beings, pogi, and sex is a very large part of a marriage. If *I* do not feel that I am attractive, *I* do not tend to get into the mood, and eventually that would probably be destructive to my marriage. Before you take that and run, let me say that obviously sex is not the only important part of a marriage, but I'd say it's at least 1/3. It isn't vanity, and it isn't comparison. We really do have self-images that have to be taken care of, physically and emotionally. 

 

 

I think you make some good and fair points.  

 

If you believe however, that what you consider to be attractive is not influenced by society, you are mistaken.  Is it better to play into the media and societal opinion, or to redefine beauty in a process of radical self-acceptance?  Is the medias portrayal of what is "attractive" healthy or destructive for marriages and young women?  Are we strengthening that destructive force by playing into it?  

 

My point is that it is more beneficial to your soul, your marriage, to women, and society at large to address the issue of why you don't feel attractive, rather than taking extreme measures to validate societies obsession with appearances.  The simple and unavoidable fact is that people don't feel attractive because they are comparing themselves to other women.  You cannot say that it is not about comparison.  If you were the only women on earth, you would be the most beautiful women!  You would not even think that having disproportionate breasts was a problem, and neither would your husband, because there would be nothing to compare it to.  You would not think that wrinkles were a problem, or sun-spots, or saggy breasts etc.  You would be the definition of beauty, you would be the standard, you would not ever think to change what is.  

 

Instead of adjusting our bodies, isn't it healthier to adjust our standards?  It is a lot more work, it may take more time, it may take some serious introspection, spiritual and emotional transformation, but it would be worth every effort as the transformation would be life long.  You would ALWAYS accept yourself.  I fear for the emotional state of women as they age who seek for physical transformation over emotional/spiritual.  There is no elixir of life.  Accept life as it is, or age miserably.  Sex can be happy and healthy in imperfect bodies if you just let it be and practice radical acceptance of yourself and your spouse!  "Attractive" people do not have exclusive rights to great sex. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by pogi