pogi Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 WHY would my bishop ever know? Cinepro would have a unique interview process with a guilty until proven innocent policy when it comes to cosmetic breast surgery
bluebell Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I'm sorry if I twisted your words or came off judgmental. It was not my intention to judge you or mischaracterize you. I think you make some good and fair points. I don't know you, your situation, or your reasons, so I want to make it clear, I am not saying that what you did was wrong. If you believe however, that what you consider to be attractive is not influenced by society, you are mistaken. Is it better to play into the media and societal opinion, or to redefine beauty in a process of radical self-acceptance? Is the medias portrayal of what is "attractive" healthy or destructive for marriages and young women? Are we strengthening that destructive force by playing into it? My point is that it is more beneficial to your soul, your marriage, to women, and society at large to address the issue of why you don't feel attractive, rather than taking extreme measures to validate societies obsession with appearances. The simple and unavoidable fact is that people don't feel attractive because they are comparing themselves to other women. You cannot say that it is not about comparison. If you were the only women on earth, you would be the most beautiful women! You would not even think that having disproportionate breasts was a problem, and neither would your husband, because there would be nothing to compare it to. You would not think that wrinkles were a problem, or sun-spots, or saggy breasts etc. You would be the definition of beauty, you would be the standard, you would not ever think to change what is. Instead of adjusting our bodies, isn't it healthier to adjust our standards? It is a lot more work, it may take more time, it may take some serious introspection, spiritual and emotional transformation, but it would be worth every effort as the transformation would be life long. You would ALWAYS accept yourself. I fear for the emotional state of women as they age who seek for physical transformation over emotional/spiritual. There is no elixir of life. Accept life as it is, or age miserably. Sex can be happy and healthy in imperfect bodies if you just let it be and practice radical acceptance of yourself and your spouse! We all, but women especially, need to get better at divorcing our body image from our self esteem. There is no logical reason why our self worth should be linked to what our bodies look like or how much we weigh, other than the fact that society has sold that lie to us and we have all swallowed it. That is so much easier said than done though! 2
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I hope they are not against it...I need a good nip and tuck. However my doctor "Dr Evil" said he would do it but could not look at my face long enough. I hate when that happens!
cinepro Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Cinepro would have a unique interview process with a guilty until proven innocent policy when it comes to cosmetic breast surgery No, my wife always tells me, cause I can never tell... Although we did have one middle aged woman who got up to bear her testimony one week and it was like . I started laughing, and my wife starting laughing, and I just said "Good grief. Even I can tell!" Edited January 5, 2015 by cinepro 1
katherine the great Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Can you see the beauty in this face? Can you see that she is confident and comfortable in her own skin? This is what woman should strive for in my humble opinion - to be confident and beautiful like this woman. To me, her face and light is more beautiful than any natural wonder of earth! Yes. Beauty, wisdom, experience... I'll bet she's not an American though. This preoccupation with body and youth seems to much more prevalent in America, parts of South American and some upper classes in other parts of the world, but very pervasive in our culture.
katherine the great Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 When it comes to plastic surgery, we should remember that our bodies are Temples. And even the Church gives the Temples a makeover (including structural changes) after a few decades to keep them looking their best. But that being said, if I were a Bishop, I wouldn't call anyone who had "elective" plastic surgery to serve in the Young Women's program. That's funny. I imagine that there are many valiant LDS women you wouldn't even suspect of having had a nip and tuck.
Tacenda Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Is it just me or do LDS women sort of idolize fashion and beauty, and women in some EV churches look kind of dowdy and like it didn't matter what they put on. Hardly any makeup or just straight long hair, no fashion haircuts etc. It just seems like here in Utah, some have quite the hair dos and current fashions. Where the non LDS, very religious, don't take it that seriously. What are LDS women thinking? But probably they do it for other women. They want to fit in. I'm probably very guilty of this. Or their husbands want it, sort of like a trophy wife. Feels kind of stepfordy to me sometimes. Edited January 5, 2015 by Tacenda
Calm Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) It is more likely neighbour oriented than statewide. We have a mixture of professors and rural farmer types in our ward and while most of the women appear stylish to me (I don't wear makeup myself due to feeling like I can't breathe with it on or irritated eyes), none appear over the top, takes hours to get ready or tons of money involved. More comfortable, clean and nice looking. Seems the same in most of the stake. Edited January 6, 2015 by calmoriah
Thinking Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Moderation! Moderation! Moderation!You don't want your wife's picture to end up on one of those Plastic Surgeries Gone Bad websites. 1
katherine the great Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Is it just me or do LDS women sort of idolize fashion and beauty, and women in some EV churches look kind of dowdy and like it didn't matter what they put on. Hardly any makeup or just straight long hair, no fashion haircuts etc. It just seems like here in Utah, some have quite the hair dos and current fashions. Where the non LDS, very religious, don't take it that seriously. What are LDS women thinking? But probably they do it for other women. They want to fit in. I'm probably very guilty of this. Or their husbands want it, sort of like a trophy wife. Feels kind of stepfordy to me sometimes.I have pondered that to some degree. I joined the church in California (Northern) and we were always instructed to dress modestly, wear makeup sparingly and avoid extreme fashions. I admit I was surprised (okay--shocked) when I went to BYU--many years ago-- and found so many bleached, big blonde haired, super skinny, tight jeaned, heavy make-up wearing girls primarily from Utah and Eastern Idaho. I am NOT slamming Utah. There were just as many Utah girls who were the salt of the earth and were nothing like that, but I know that there is a cultural something (not sure what or where it started) that produces a lot of that type of behavior. Maybe it gradually developed from the need to separate from the humble pioneer days combined with the tendency to conform, but it is still kind of surprising.
strappinglad Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Men AND women who have gained then lost a lot of weight carry around excess skin that is uncomfortable and can be an irritation mentally and physically. Those who, for whatever reason, want to get back a semblance of the body they once had should have no hinderance. Those who spend thousands trying to look like Kate or Angelina or Barbie or Brad for that matter, likely need therapy rather than surgery.
Thinking Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Or their husbands want it, sort of like a trophy wife. Feels kind of stepfordy to me sometimes. I don't have a trophy wife. My wife has a trophy husband! I'm not sure in what place she finished to get me. 1
teddyaware Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 So my wife wants to get a "mommy makeover" but she's concerned about how the church would look upon this. 3 kids have taken it's toll on her body and she's struggled with self esteem issues her whole life. She knows the pros and cons and knows that this won't solve the deeper issues with her self image (she's seeing a therapist too and working on all of that) but at the same time she really feels like it would give her just the boost she needs to finally feel good about her body. She works out regularly, eats well, and is trying hard to take care of herself but at 40 it's just not producing the desired results and she's really frustrated and it's affecting her emotionally quite a bit and her body image/self esteem is suffering. She's read the testimonials about how women who have done this have loved it and feel like a whole new person and the prospect of that is exciting. But she's a very spiritual woman too and wants to do the right thing. So we're primarily looking for 2 things here: 1) If there are any faithful LDS women who have done this (and are wiling to share....) will you post your experiences? Was it worth it? Would you do it again? Pros/Cons? Do you worry about what you'll tell your children later if they ask? Is it a paradox to do this but then teach about not being vain to your kids and in church? Can you honestly do this and say that you are still following the prophet? Etc. 2) I want to know if there is any hard doctrine from the church that says they are against such a surgery? Do the handbooks say anything? I'm guessing there isn't anything cut and dry as the church would have a small revolution on their hands if they flat out said not to do it (Lots of faithful latter day saint women have done it....I can point out several in our ward as I'm sure you can too). It's probably more of a "follow the spirit and decide for yourself" situation but I'm curious if anyone knows of any specific counsel. Thanks! The church wasn't against it until the leaders learned there was a fad surgery proliferating among large numbers of sisters who wanted the "Marie Osmond look"
Calm Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I don't have a trophy wife. My wife has a trophy husband! I'm not sure in what place she finished to get me. General participation?
The Nehor Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 General participation?How does one volunteer to be such a trophy?
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I guess you are right, it works both ways. I knew it would have been cheaper and easier for my mom to go to a shrink instead of having a life saving mastectomy! Do you have a good reference for a surgeon I can call who can cure my friends PTSD once and for all? Different etiologies require different interventions. (these are made-up scenarios) A heart attack is a very "real" psychosomatic illness.
pogi Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 A heart attack is a very "real" psychosomatic illness. There is increasing evidence that most diseases have a psychosomatic element to them. Stress is a bad bad boy. Are you suggesting therefore that we could give a heart attack victim some Lorazepam and it would make things better? Or, are you going to address the physical clot with a blood thinner? I'm not sure what you are getting at.
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) There is increasing evidence that most diseases have a psychosomatic element to them. Stress is a bad bad boy. Are you suggesting therefore that we could give a heart attack victim some Lorazepam and it would make things better? Or, are you going to address the physical clot with a blood thinner? I'm not sure what you are getting at. We really can't separate the two. We have to deal with both. I would say that Overstressed is a very bad bad boy. it might be a good idea to give antidepressants and anticoagulants before, and after the heart attack, along with talk therapy to help the person more effectively deal with the stress and damage to the heart. Ps; My field was child and adolescent psychology. Heart attacks while rare in that age group do happen.They have a lot of other problems. Edited January 6, 2015 by thesometimesaint
pogi Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) We really can't separate the two. We have to deal with both. We can when the problem is purely psychological with no psychosomatic manifestations. Edited January 6, 2015 by pogi
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 We can when the problem is purely psychological with no psychosomatic manifestations. There really isn't such thing. Everything we think, do or happens to us has psychosomatic manifestations to it. Some are just more dramatic than others. If it is bad enough it gets written about in my DSM and I get paid for it treating it.
pogi Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 There really isn't such thing. Everything we think, do or happens to us has psychosomatic manifestations to it. Some are just more dramatic than others. If it is bad enough it gets written about in my DSM and I get paid for it treating it. Do you treat non-threatening and reversable psychosomatic manifestation with surgery or do you treat the psychological root?
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Do you treat non-threatening and reversable psychosomatic manifestation with surgery or do you treat the psychological root? I'm not a MD so don't do any surgeries more dramatic than patching up minor skin abrasions, and the like:) Do I give psychological support, encouragement to those suffering from threatening Clinical Depression, and/or schizophrenia yes I do(At least I did so professionally until I retired).
pogi Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I'm not a MD so don't do any surgeries more dramatic than patching up minor skin abrasions, and the like:) Do I give psychological support, encouragement to those suffering from threatening Clinical Depression, and/or schizophrenia yes I do(At least I did so professionally until I retired). I meant what is the general medical consensus? For someone who has self-esteem, self-worth, and depression issues due to negative and harmful self-perceptions, would you personally address their negative and false self-perceptions and concept of "self-worth" and other psychological root factors, or would you encourage them in their negative self-perceptions and suggest surgery to correct a non-threatening physical condition, i.e. small boobs? Is it not damaging to the psychology of women to suggest that IF you have money and can afford surgery (putting your very life at risk), all of your self-worth and self-esteem issues can be repaired and and bring you happiness? Isn't there a better way?
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Adults of course can make up their own minds as to benefits vs detriments of any medical procedure. Unfortunately our society has a host of problems with body image problems especially among women, and breast size. It is not healthy to go to either extreme. My job is to clearly outline both. Deal with the inappropriate body self images first. Then let them use their agency.
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