Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Something our stake has done for some years now is every monthward mission leaders are asked to generate a list of all the active/less active people in a given month that the missionaries have visited and to count those people having been home and visit taught. So, let's say that the members only HT/VT 25 members in a month but the missionaries visited 40 people and the number counted for the stats is 65 (unless there is some overlap). Personally, I don't think it's being honest to pad the numbers so to speak and why should I go out and do my visits if the missionaries have visited them anyways? What do you think?
bluebell Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I don't think missionaries should be doing home and visiting teaching. That is members' responsibility. 2
Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 I don't think missionaries should be doing home and visiting teaching. That is members' responsibility. and the missionaries visits are like DA's, stop by's so sometimes it isn't even a real visit that is being counted
Teancum Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Something our stake has done for some years now is every monthward mission leaders are asked to generate a list of all the active/less active people in a given month that the missionaries have visited and to count those people having been home and visit taught. So, let's say that the members only HT/VT 25 members in a month but the missionaries visited 40 people and the number counted for the stats is 65 (unless there is some overlap). Personally, I don't think it's being honest to pad the numbers so to speak and why should I go out and do my visits if the missionaries have visited them anyways? What do you think? Who cares as long as the members are being visited and taken care of?
Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Who cares as long as the members are being visited and taken care of? well, when you are asked on the Temple recommend question are you honest with your fellow man? padding the numbers doesn't seem to me to be honest, giving a false impression to someone else
CV75 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Something our stake has done for some years now is every monthward mission leaders are asked to generate a list of all the active/less active people in a given month that the missionaries have visited and to count those people having been home and visit taught. So, let's say that the members only HT/VT 25 members in a month but the missionaries visited 40 people and the number counted for the stats is 65 (unless there is some overlap). Personally, I don't think it's being honest to pad the numbers so to speak and why should I go out and do my visits if the missionaries have visited them anyways? What do you think?This probably best answered by the state leaders, but my attitude is that the reports are strictly quantitative, so a visit is a visit, no matter who makes it. I think if a missionary visit can open the way for HT/VT to visit, it is additionally helpful, and at least the member receives some personal contact with the Church. Qualitatively, it depends on the Spirit during the visit and the coordination between HT/VT and missionary for needed follow-up. This is not reported except in terms of increased meeting attendance, contributions, etc. I don't think it's necessarily a problem that a member gets visited more than once a month as the Spirit directs or circumstances allow.
Teancum Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 well, when you are asked on the Temple recommend question are you honest with your fellow man? padding the numbers doesn't seem to me to be honest, giving a false impression to someone else Huh? If the Church says use missionaries in reaching out to members, if they use what was/is called the Balanced Effort Program, if the ward Bishop says to use missionaries in HT efforts how is that being dishonest?
bluebell Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) and the missionaries visits are like DA's, stop by's so sometimes it isn't even a real visit that is being counted Exactly. The purpose of HT/VT is so that everyone (less and inactive included) has a connection to other members of their ward and so that ward members have a connection to them. It's not just about making sure some mormon says hi to them once a month. Missionaries are in each area for a very limited amount of time. That doesn't help a less active or inactive member if the only member they have a relationship with leaves after a few weeks. Edited January 2, 2015 by bluebell 2
Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Huh? If the Church says use missionaries in reaching out to members, if they use what was/is called the Balanced Effort Program, if the ward Bishop says to use missionaries in HT efforts how is that being dishonest? to me it's dishonest for counting of the numbers because missionaries aren't assigned as HT/VT but they count those visits in the number of people as being home taught, giving a false impression to whoever sees these numbers-that the members are doing all of the visits
ERayR Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Something our stake has done for some years now is every monthward mission leaders are asked to generate a list of all the active/less active people in a given month that the missionaries have visited and to count those people having been home and visit taught. So, let's say that the members only HT/VT 25 members in a month but the missionaries visited 40 people and the number counted for the stats is 65 (unless there is some overlap). Personally, I don't think it's being honest to pad the numbers so to speak and why should I go out and do my visits if the missionaries have visited them anyways? What do you think? Here. where zI am, The missionaries and and sometimes do go with the home teachers to families where a spouse or member of the family is not a member. They then may make followup visits. I have not heard of them taking over home teaching responsibilities. Sounds like your local leaders are trying to bolster home teaching numbers. 2
ksfisher Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Page 214 of Preach My Gospel says the following: "[the bishop and the ward council] may request that full-time missionaries help in home teaching (or sister missionaries with visiting teaching) and in visiting new members, less-active members, and prospective elders." Sounds like your stake is doing exactly what is recommended by the church.
Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Page 214 of Preach My Gospel says the following: "[the bishop and the ward council] may request that full-time missionaries help in home teaching (or sister missionaries with visiting teaching) and in visiting new members, less-active members, and prospective elders." Sounds like your stake is doing exactly what is recommended by the church. they can help me do my home teaching but not do my or anyone else's home teaching for me, is where I see that difference 1
Teancum Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 they can help me do my home teaching but not do my or anyone else's home teaching for me, is where I see that difference Well you disagree with the Church manual. But Hey you are an EQ president's dream! 1
The Nehor Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 they can help me do my home teaching but not do my or anyone else's home teaching for me, is where I see that differenceI am pretty sure the reports are not meant to be an arrogance thing about how well the EQ or RS is doing but are intended to show who is visited. No glory accrues to John Q Waste-of-Space who never does his Home Teaching so I do not see the dishonesty. 1
bluebell Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Well you disagree with the Church manual. But Hey you are an EQ president's dream! He doesn't disagree with the manual as he plainly says that he agrees missionaries can help with HT/VT, which is exactly what the manual says. 1
Avatar4321 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Home teaching is missionary work within the church. Missionary work is home teaching out of the church. We need to work with the missionaries to accomplish our goals for both.there are some people.who are difficult to contact for ordinary members. Sometimes the elders can get in where we can't or they can use their time to reach out to the people we don't even know are there.
ksfisher Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I am pretty sure the reports are not meant to be an arrogance thing about how well the EQ or RS is doing but are intended to show who is visited. No glory accrues to John Q Waste-of-Space who never does his Home Teaching so I do not see the dishonesty. But, the reports should reflect how well people are fulfilling their assignments, whether it be ward members or missionaries who are assigned to do the visiting. So Duncan is correct that members who have been assigned to be visited by ward members should not be counted if the missionaries visit them. This is not a reflection of whether of not members are being ministered to, but to what degree members are fulfilling their home teaching assignments. If the missionaries visit a member that they have been assigned to visit that counts. But it would seem that if the missionaries visit someone who a member has been assigned to home teach, while the member has been ministered to, the responsibility of the home teacher has not been fulfilled. 2
Tacenda Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 My former RS president would usually have to fill in for a lot of missed visits to inactives etc. She sure could have used some help from the local missionaries if it had been put in place. That is if these inactive members would be receptive to that.
ksfisher Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) ...so to answer Duncan's original question: if the missionaries are visiting a family that I have been assigned to home teach, it doesn't seem honest to count that as a home teaching visit. Yes, it is a good thing and the missionaries should be visiting, but it would not seem to count as fulfilling the assignment that the home teacher was given. On the other hand, with all the problems that Duncan has described in his ward and stake over the years, how home teaching is being counted sounds like one of the least of the worries. Edited January 2, 2015 by ksfisher 4
ERayR Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 they can help me do my home teaching but not do my or anyone else's home teaching for me, is where I see that difference You are right no one can do your assignment for you. It is yours to fulfill or fail. The missionaries can assist and do followup visits throughout the month, 1
The Nehor Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 But, the reports should reflect how well people are fulfilling their assignments, whether it be ward members or missionaries who are assigned to do the visiting. So Duncan is correct that members who have been assigned to be visited by ward members should not be counted if the missionaries visit them. This is not a reflection of whether of not members are being ministered to, but to what degree members are fulfilling their home teaching assignments. If the missionaries visit a member that they have been assigned to visit that counts. But it would seem that if the missionaries visit someone who a member has been assigned to home teach, while the member has been ministered to, the responsibility of the home teacher has not been fulfilled.I disagree. If I am the Bishop or EQ President I care less about who is visiting the members and more who is not being visited at all and the record is supposed to help me figure out who may need help.
Duncan Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 I disagree. If I am the Bishop or EQ President I care less about who is visiting the members and more who is not being visited at all and the record is supposed to help me figure out who may need help. see, you'd be good!
Jeanne Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 As a former visiting teacher coordinator..I wish this had happened earlier...gees..tried so hard to make sure that sisters were visiting everybody when I could have just checked in with missionaries..I do wonder how this will work Duncan.
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Our area president has requested that the fulltime missionaries be involved, when and where possible, in all home and visiting teaching when those visited are less active, part-member families, or new converts. Consequently in our ward we encourage members to take a missionary with them on their visits. To facilitate this, we have one evening each week (Thursdays) when the missionaries are available for splits with members to do these visits. A number of members have caught the vision of this and take advantage of this opportunity. As WML, I have tried to be the example in this regard. I am assigned six homes to visit, and I try to take an Elder with me in each instance since some or all of those in these homes are less active or non-members. This has made an enormous difference. I don't quite understand how it works, but the missionaries really progress the visits I've been making. Beyond this, in the past we have been told to use the missionaries as home teachers, but in this case it was not just a random thing. Instead the Elders were actually assigned home-teaching families and reported on those families each month. Edited January 2, 2015 by Hamba Tuhan
HappyJackWagon Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 HT stats measure two different things. 1- Which families have been visited2- Which home teachers faithfully fullfilled their assignment If all you care about is the answer to #1 then there is no such thing as "padding the numbers".If you're trying to measure the worthiness of priesthood then having the missionaries doing the HT would not be a good measure, but the same could be said for members of the EQ Presidency making visits. 1
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