Coreyb Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Simple question:In your view, is capital punishment consistent the gospel of Jesus Christ (or Mormonism if you distinguish the two)?
strappinglad Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 It was definitely consistent with the gospel of Jehovah.
bluebell Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I personally believe it can be. Edited November 20, 2014 by bluebell
thesometimesaint Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I believe it is inconsistent with the Gospel, and a reflection of our fallen nature to want vengeance. 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 It is not compatiable. In our own scirptures it even tells us that if we are not guilty of the 1st offense we are not guilty of the 2nd. I don't see why that cannot be interpreted in light of capital punishment.
Duncan Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I think so , to me though the question is does society have the right guilty party person to execute 2
bluebell Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I believe it is inconsistent with the Gospel, and a reflection of our fallen nature to want vengeance.I myself don't see it as an issue of vengeance, but more an issue of consequences. We know that under specific conditions killing another person is permitted, such as war. It doesn't matter which side in a conflict is morally right, the soldiers from either side are justified in protecting their life and the lives of others. If you are a genuine threat to otherd then they are justified in killing you. That is the consequence of being a soldier. I think that the same idea can apply to Capitol punishment. If someone actively preys on society to the extent that they are a danger, then the consequence of their choice is for them to lose their life. I don't believe Capitol punishment is always justified though. Edited November 20, 2014 by bluebell 2
stemelbow Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I personally believe it can be. that's what John D. Lee said. Next thing ya know he was murdering men, women and children for trying to walk on by his community. Just kidding. I don't know why I said that.
CV75 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Simple question:In your view, is capital punishment consistent the gospel of Jesus Christ (or Mormonism if you distinguish the two)?I think there is a place for righteous vengeance in the world and that the Lord approves of governments and legal processes that facilitate temporal justice by imposing punishments according to the voice of the people (according to the light they possess). Likewise, there is room for mercy and this should also be imposed with equal consideration in the decisions made about killing someone for his crime.
strappinglad Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) It's hard to get around Genesis 9:6 . I concur with Duncan in that it is often difficult to find the right guilty one to punish, but when it isn't , ie. , the Ted Bundys of the world , society shouldn't kittyfoot. Edited November 20, 2014 by strappinglad 1
CV75 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I think where the Lord atoned for the Fall (a form of capital punishment in itself), by His grace He sees capital punishment under properly executed laws, reflecting the best we can do to govern our societies with justice and mercy. 1
CV75 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) It's hard to get around Genesis 9:6 . I concur with Duncan in that it is often difficult to find the right guilty one to punish, but when it isn't , ie. , the Ted Bundys of the world , society shouldn't kittyfoot.I think this is where the Lord's grace covers mistakes that are made with the least bit of ill-will toward anyone. EDITED "last" to "least" LOL At any rate, within the Gospel of Jesus Christ, capital punishment would be carried out (or commuted) with both justice and mercy. Edited November 20, 2014 by CV75
stemelbow Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 It's hard to get around Genesis 9:6 . I concur with Duncan in that it is often difficult to find the right guilty one to punish, but when it isn't , ie. , the Ted Bundys of the world , society shouldn't kittyfoot. not so tough...just realize it was a different era back in Adam's day and they saw things differently. Also, you could assume that it was one of those parts of the Bible that were added or severely edited to confuse the meaning. last of all you could conclude it was put in there but was not really from God. After all, you might argue, Moses didnt' actually write the first 5 books anyway. read Documentary Hypothesis.
ELF1024 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I think it's more inhumane to lock them up for the rest of their lives. In cases where it has been decided by a jury of your peers that your behavior has merited the ultimate punishment, we do not judge, we just arrange the meeting with he who is qualified to judge. 1
stemelbow Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I think it's more inhumane to lock them up for the rest of their lives. In cases where it has been decided by a jury of your peers that your behavior has merited the ultimate punishment, we do not judge, we just arrange the meeting with he who is qualified to judge. Good point. It must be more humane to send them to be judged for eternity just after they murder someone, than to give them more time in this probationary state readying themselves for eternity. After all, we can't err in convicting someone that's innocent, nor shall we quibble about whether someone who murders (Nephi) might be forgiven.
pogi Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 It was consistent with BY's (blood atonement). In fact, I hear Utah is entertaining the idea of bringing back the firing squad because lethal drugs are hard to come by. With that teaching disavowed by the church, I don't see any scriptural justification for it. The only examples of righteous people killing in scripture is in defense or when commanded by God. I don't think capital punishment fits either criteria well. Can anybody show any scriptural or prophetic teaching which justifies capital punishment? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just haven't heard of it.
bcuzbcuz Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Someone noted that a lifetime sentence is more inhumane than capital punishment. I can live with that. It may even cost more, but as far as consequences go, I think that someone who murders has shown they don´t deserve to have a place in regular society. Capital punishment, I believe, is wrong. Capital punishment calls forth all the worst of human culture, it is degrading to our society. It is reacting at the lowest, basist, animal instinct level of humanity.
halconero Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Just as long as their blood is shed so that the smoke thereof can ascend on high. And if ever I have the privilege of making a law on that subject, I will have it so. 2
strappinglad Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 not so tough...just realize it was a different era back in Adam's day and they saw things differently. Also, you could assume that it was one of those parts of the Bible that were added or severely edited to confuse the meaning. last of all you could conclude it was put in there but was not really from God. After all, you might argue, Moses didnt' actually write the first 5 books anyway. read Documentary Hypothesis.As long as we get to choose the parts we like and disagree with , there are certain of the 10 ' suggestions' that we could leave off or at least rewrite .
JLHPROF Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Just as long as their blood is shed so that the smoke thereof can ascend on high. And if ever I have the privilege of making a law on that subject, I will have it so. This is what I believe also. I think that Blood Atonement as Brigham Young taught it has more truth than we realize and it got buried under his fiery rhetoric and the MMM. But the principle is sound.
Ahab Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Simple question:In your view, is capital punishment consistent the gospel of Jesus Christ (or Mormonism if you distinguish the two)?Yes
pogi Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 I am undecided on this issue. I hate both options.
CV75 Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Can anybody show any scriptural or prophetic teaching which justifies capital punishment? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just haven't heard of it.Alma 30: 10, 11: “…if he murdered he was punished unto death; and if he robbed he was also punished; and if he stole he was also punished; and if he committed adultery he was also punished; yea, for all this wickedness they were punished. For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes.” Alma 1:15, "And it came to pass that they took him; and his name was Nehor; and they carried him upon the top of the hill Manti, and there he was caused, or rather did acknowledge, between the heavens and the earth, that what he had taught to the people was contrary to the word of God; and there he suffered an ignominious death.”
JLHPROF Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 Can anybody show any scriptural or prophetic teaching which justifies capital punishment? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just haven't heard of it. Reasoning D&C 1916 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink— because.. Romans 623 For the wages of sin is death Old TestamentMurder .... Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12; Dt. 19:11-13Kidnapping .... Ex. 21:16; Dt. 24:7Adultery .... Lev. 21:10; Dt. 22:22Rape . . . . Dt. 22:23-27Sodomy .... Lev. 20:13Animal Cohabitation .... Lev. 20:15Death by Negligence . . . . Ex. 21:28-29Incest .... Lev. 20:11,12,14Whoredom .... Dt. 22:21 NEW TESTAMENTI Corinthians 5 - The Apostle Paul3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. "Jesus said to His disciples, "Ye are the salt of the earth and if the salt loses its saving principle, it is then good for nothing but to be cast out." Instead of reading it just as it is, almost all of you read it just as it is not. Jesus meant to say, "If you have lost the saving principles, you Twelve Apostles, and you that believe in my servants the Twelve, you shall be like unto the salt that has lost its saving principles: it is henceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under the foot of men. Judas lost that saving principle, and they took him and killed him. It is said in the Bible that his bowels gushed out; but they actually kicked him until his bowels came out." - Heber C. Kimball Prophetic TeachingIn debate, George A. Smith said imprisonment was better than hanging. I replied, I was opposed to hanging; even if a man kill another, I will shoot him, or cut off his head, spill his blood on the ground, and let the smoke thereof ascend up to God; and if ever I have the privilege of making a law on that subject, I will have it so. (H.C. 5:296) - Joseph Smith (which is why Utah always favored firing squad as method of execution). . . . what is needful for the salvation of the soul where one's sins place him beyond the reach of vicarious means of salvation--then it is the shedding of the sinner's own blood that must here be referred to. (B. H. Roberts, Comp. Hist. Church, 4:129) . . . under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the Law of God is that men must have their own blood shed to atone for their sins. (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 87) But man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved, he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone so far as in his power lies, for that sin, for the blood of Christ atone under certain circumstances will not avail. * * * Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf.... (J. Fielding Smith, Doc. of Sal., 1:134-136) . . . They know, that if they have any connections out of the marriage covenant, they not only forfeit their lives by the law of God, but they forfeit their salvation also. (Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 42) ....The principle, the only one that beats and throbs through the heart of the entire inhabitants of this Territory, is simply this: The man who seduces his neighbor's wife must die, and her nearest relative must kill him. (George A. Smith, J.D. 1:97) These are my views, and the Lord knows that I believe in the principles of sanctification; and when I am guilty of seducing any man's wife, or any woman in God's world, I say, sever my head from my body. These have ever been my feelings from the days of my youth. This is my character, and the character of President Brigham Young. It was the character of Joseph Smith and of Jesus Christ; and that is the character of the Apostles of Jesus, and that must be sustained by this people. (Heber C. Kimball, J.D. 7:20) If we sin we have to die/stay dead. Only the atonement of death either by Christ or our own can pay the price of sin.Scripturally all sins have to be paid for by blood. The blood of the savior pays for the repentant. The unrepentant are another story.
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