Will There Be Difference In The Celestial Kingdom

[Bikeemikey]

I just read this post from another thread:

Its pretty ironic. The world values diversity, which I think is a good thing to do in a worldly place. However, God, it would seem, values sameness (one mind, one heart). I think we will find in a Zion/Celestial society there is no diversity of opinion. Everybody will essentially think and act the same. Yet, KK believes in a different kind of Zion. One that has no scriptural support.

It got me thinking. Do most LDS think that that in heaven we will "essentially think and act the same"?

[Calm]

No.

 

Even people who have the same purpose often approach the fulfillment of that purpose different depending on their personal abilities and inclinations.

 

One heart imo means we will experience love in such a way that there will be no difference in how we treat others as we would treat ourselves, we will be able to understand their needs and desires and want to help them fulfill them just as we want to fulfill our own.

[Alan]

Difference in the celestial kingdom?

I jolly well hope so!

[Bikeemikey]

So (Calmoriah and Alan) unity is entirely possible even amongst diversity?

[The Nehor]

Not a chance. I intend to be the oddest person there.

[ERayR]

I just read this post from another thread:

It got me thinking. Do most LDS think that that in heaven we will "essentially think and act the same"?

 

The Borg will assimilate you.

[ERayR]

No.

 

Even people who have the same purpose often approach the fulfillment of that purpose different depending on their personal abilities and inclinations.

 

One heart imo means we will experience love in such a way that there will be no difference in how we treat others as we would treat ourselves, we will be able to understand their needs and desires and want to help them fulfill them just as we want to fulfill our own.

 

I look at "one heart" as working toward the same goal.

[ERayR]

So (Calmoriah and Alan) unity is entirely possible even amongst diversity?

 

I am neither Calmoriah or Alan but add my agreement to that.

[The Nehor]

So (Calmoriah and Alan) unity is entirely possible even amongst diversity?

It is the only kind of unity worth having. I do doubt our diversity is as insipid as it is here. Real life (ie everything but this life) is much more interesting.

[Garden Girl]

I believe that our eternal perspective and knowledge that we will acquire will keep us "one" in heart and mind as we are united with Christ in seeking to serve and glorify God and seek to do his will.

[Bikeemikey]

Thanks for all the responses... I have often heard this idea of Celestial sameness and never really bought into it.

Happy to know it is not a universally held LDS concept.

[Hamba Tuhan]

It has been my experience that sin and disobedience generate a numbing sameness, whilst righteousenss and obedience create the most unique (even quirky) individuals I know.

 

There are only about five different ways to be drunk. There are an infinite number of choices open to those sober.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

So (Calmoriah and Alan) unity is entirely possible even amongst diversity?

Yep.

We are diverse in my family but also very unified. I would imagine that both variety and likeness and abilty to get along will be heightened in perfect beings.

[Calm]

Thanks for all the responses... I have often heard this idea of Celestial sameness and never really bought into it.

Happy to know it is not a universally held LDS concept.

I was quite shocked when I first heard it. Don't have a clue where it came from. Seems absurd that the creator of this earth would want to be surrounded by cookie cutter characters for eternity.

[Bikeemikey]

I was quite shocked when I first heard it. Don't have a clue where it came from. Seems absurd that the creator of this earth would want to be surrounded by cookie cutter characters for eternity.

I whole heartedly agree.

[Hamba Tuhan]

The problem rises, it would seem, when people reject the literally infinite diversity open to the righteous and instead try to find themselves in the limiting, shallow, cookie-cutter sameness of disobedience or even rebellion.

[teddyaware]

I just read this post from another thread:

It got me thinking. Do most LDS think that that in heaven we will "essentially think and act the same"?

I find it interesting nearly all the respondents on this thread opined that there will be diversity existing among the inhabitants of the celestial kingdom, but not one of the respondents made any attempt to explain or describe the kinds of diversity might exist in that world of perfect divine attributes and perfect unity.

If the Father and the Son are prototypes of celestial unity, I wonder if anyone here will be able demonstrate from the scriptures an example of any kind of diversity of opinion, outlook, belief or doctrine existing between the Father and the Son? I ask this question in all sincerity because I would find it fascinating if it can be demonstrated that there are verifiable examples of any kind of diversity existing between the Father and the Son.

Edited July 29, 2014 by teddyaware

[rpn]

We can think about some things the same without thinking of all things the same.

 

And we will be resurrected with what we could take with us, which will be quite different (though the fact that one remembers big wives show and one the family hungry around a campfire, probably won't matter much).

[bluebell]

This thread makes me wonder how God the Father and Christ think and act differently?  As in, I wonder what their differences are?

[Ahab]

Let me put it this way:

People with celestial glory will not think other people with celestial glory are doing or thinking something which is stupid, and it won't be because there is some kind of rule forbidding them from thinking or saying something which is not nice.

[JLHPROF]

I think we will continue to all be unique individuals.  That being said, there is something to the gospel principle of unity.

I doubt there is contention, (or any negative feelings) in a Celestial environment.  The scriptures about being "one" are plentiful.

 

So how DO we maintain unique perspectives without contention or disagreement arising?

[Hamba Tuhan]

I find it interesting nearly all the respondents on this thread opined that there will be diversity existing among the inhabitants of the celestial kingdom, but not one of the respondents made any attempt to explain or describe the kinds of diversity might exist in that world of perfect divine attributes and perfect unity.

 

A short while ago, it was my privilege to serve in a bishopric with my all-time favourite bishop and a good and kind man that was his first counsellor. We are all three completely different men in personality, in interests, and in style -- so different in fact that, were it not for the Church, our lives would probably never overlap or even intersect.

 

A brief glimpse that can only suggest some of our superficial differences: The then-bishop is a quirky, socially awkward man who has degrees in psychology and law and works in the latter field. He loves martial arts and has several black belts in various fields, but he's otherwise so uncoordinated at sport that it's quite painful to watch. (We never could convince him that one should dribble a basketball with just one hand, and I nearly lost him over a waterfall on one Young Men camp despite the fact that he was the only one of us who stayed completely away from the edge.) I used to watch him at church rehearse what he would say to someone several times before approaching him/her because otherwise he'd forget what he wanted to say. He did a brief stint in the army and loved every aspect of it, though his stories would indicate that he spent much of his time getting hopelessly lost and/or having his weapons fall apart in his hands due to having assembled them incorrectly. I've never seen him with anything remotely resembling facial hair. He has five kids, and he'll eat anything.

 

The then-first counsellor is short, fit man who excels at team sports, though his particular passion is Aussie rules football. He works for the Department of Defence in some secretive capacity. His social interactions are characterised by a quiet and dignified ease. He spends a lot of time at home engaged in construction projects. Though he occasionally removes it, he generally has a really nice full beard. He has two kids, and he splurges on organic food.

 

I'm a professional historian who works primarily in an editorial position at an academic journal. I'm a classic extrovert; when I walk into a room, everyone knows I'm there, if only from the volume. I would be happy to have people around me 24 hours/day. I've never been good at sports due in large part to physical deformities from birth that were able to be corrected only in later adolescence, but I can make a fair showing at this point in my life, and I love to camp, hike, cave, canoe, etc. I read poetry. Before it turned wiry, I frequently wore a beard, but now I'm down to a well-tended 'soul patch'. I've never married, and I think life is too short to eat boring food, so pour on the spices, please!

 

Like I said, these are superficial differences mainly, but they are genuinely emblematic of how radically different we are in personality. If one were to graph us on one of those personality grids, we probably would form the vertices of a large equilateral triangle.

 

But I loved every single moment I spent serving with these men because all three of us were in perfect unity in our desire to do whatever the Lord wanted of us. We would humbly seek inspiration, and then we would go to work and do what we needed to do -- each in his own way. Our differences, rather than causing conflict, enriched our interactions and facilitated our ability to counsel together. They also enriched our ability to work with and serve ward members, who are all over the place personality-wise themselves. I suspect I'll never meet a quirkier man than the one who then served as my bishop (and who is still my honoured and beloved brother), but that's because I may never meet a more righteous man, and righteousness is what makes us more of our true selves, not the predictable slavery of disobedience.

[teddyaware]

A short while ago, it was my privilege to serve in a bishopric with my all-time favourite bishop and a good and kind man that was his first counsellor. We are all three completely different men in personality, in interests, and in style -- so different in fact that, were it not for the Church, our lives would probably never overlap or even intersect.

 

A brief glimpse that can only suggest some of our superficial differences: The then-bishop is a quirky, socially awkward man who has degrees in psychology and law and works in the latter field. He loves martial arts and has several black belts in various fields, but he's otherwise so uncoordinated at sport that it's quite painful to watch. (We never could convince him that one should dribble a basketball with just one hand, and I nearly lost him over a waterfall on one Young Men camp despite the fact that he was the only one of us who stayed completely away from the edge.) I used to watch him at church rehearse what he would say to someone several times before approaching him/her because otherwise he'd forget what he wanted to say. He did a brief stint in the army and loved every aspect of it, though his stories would indicate that he spent much of his time getting hopelessly lost and/or having his weapons fall apart in his hands due to having assembled them incorrectly. I've never seen him with anything remotely resembling facial hair. He has five kids, and he'll eat anything.

 

The then-first counsellor is short, fit man who excels at team sports, though his particular passion is Aussie rules football. He works for the Department of Defence in some secretive capacity. His social interactions are characterised by a quiet and dignified ease. He spends a lot of time at home engaged in construction projects. Though he occasionally removes it, he generally has a really nice full beard. He has two kids, and he splurges on organic food.

 

I'm a professional historian who works primarily in an editorial position at an academic journal. I'm a classic extrovert; when I walk into a room, everyone knows I'm there, if only from the volume. I would be happy to have people around me 24 hours/day. I've never been good at sports due in large part to physical deformities from birth that were able to be corrected only in later adolescence, but I can make a fair showing at this point in my life, and I love to camp, hike, cave, canoe, etc. I read poetry. Before it turned wiry, I frequently wore a beard, but now I'm down to a well-tended 'soul patch'. I've never married, and I think life is too short to eat boring food, so pour on the spices, please!

 

Like I said, these are superficial differences mainly, but they are genuinely emblematic of how radically different we are in personality. If one were to graph us on one of those personality grids, we probably would form the vertices of a large equilateral triangle.

 

But I loved every single moment I spent serving with these men because all three of us were in perfect unity in our desire to do whatever the Lord wanted of us. We would humbly seek inspiration, and then we would go to work and do what we needed to do -- each in his own way. Our differences, rather than causing conflict, enriched our interactions and facilitated our ability to counsel together. They also enriched our ability to work with and serve ward members, who are all over the place personality-wise themselves. I suspect I'll never meet a quirkier man than the one who then served as my bishop (and who is still my honoured and beloved brother), but that's because I may never meet a more righteous man, and righteousness is what makes us more of our true selves, not the predictable slavery of disobedience.

Very good...but there's a problem with your description. You are describing three men who exist in the fallen state here on earth, You are not describing three gods who have each arrived at the point of eternal perfection. Joseph Smith did say it would be a great work beyond the grave before we gain our exaltation...

"When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith)

Nevertheless, as Joseph Fielding Smith taught, the day will come when all that God possesses will be ours...

"The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fullness of the perfect day shall burst upon them." (Joseph Fielding Smith)

 

Speaking first of physical prowess: it's hard to imagine an eternally perfect god who will still be physically awkward and prone to accidents as a consequence of being uncoordinated. To me it seems quite likely the perfections of God extend not only to moral perfections, but that physical perfection is also included as a component of eternal perfection. Does it not seem likely a perfect god would be able to stand at the precipice of a dangerous cliff without ever tripping and falling? and this because his mind and body would have infinite power and that both the physical and mental elements of his nature would interact in perfect harmony and with perfect mind/body interaction and awareness? 

 

As far as spiritual and moral perfection are concerned, how could two exalted beings who are filled with an infinite and eternal fullness of divine love manifest that love in different and unique ways? One either possesses an infinite and eternal fullness of love or he doesn't. And if two exalted beings do possess an infinite and eternal capacity to love, I would expect they would both manifest that love in the same ways in accordance with to the immutable laws governing righteous behavior.    

Edited July 29, 2014 by teddyaware

[Hamba Tuhan]

Speaking first of physical prowess: it's hard to imagine an eternally perfect god who will still be physically awkward and prone to accidents as a consequence of being uncoordinated.

 

No doubt those differences that are actually flaws will be done away eventually, but that still won't make us the same men.

 

As far as spiritual and moral perfection are concerned, how could two exalted beings who are filled with an infinite and eternal fullness of divine love manifest that love in different and unique ways?

 

I may be a bit off in my assessment, but I certainly feel as though my parents had something coming very close to 'an infinite and eternal fullness of divine love' toward me, their son. Yet they absolutely manifested that love in different and unique ways. Do you sincerely believe there is only one 'true' way to love another person, and we're all just getting it wrong? Or that the love of a mother is identical to the love of a father and therefore redundant?

Edited July 29, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[Stargazer]

Well, I do not think that we have even the first piddle of understanding what it will be like in the Celestial Kingdom, let alone what it means to be an exalted Being.

 

Reminds me of the old question: How many angels can stand on the head of a pin?

 

All the debate on this aside, there is one question and one answer in response:

 

1. Why would an angel want to stand on the head of a pin?

2. As many angels as want to stand on it.

 

I expect the Celestial Kingdom to be very interesting and quite amazing.