Will There Be Difference In The Celestial Kingdom

[The Nehor]

Actually, when one considers that in that sameness one may become Exalted and thus in effect become a Universe existing in oneself, with all that that implies as to eternal progeny, and an infinite diversity of creation, oh my.  There is no sameness in that.

 

But we see through a glass, darkly.  Even our most expansive view in mortality is like looking through a straw in comparison.  Don't let your mortal limitations confine your horizons, The Nehor.

 

My horizons are fine. I am excited to die at some point and eventually find complete fulfillment.

 

However if we are all the same in said sameness then we have an infinity of identical universes existing in ourselves and an infinite diversity of creation exactly the same as everyone else's.

 

BORING!!!!!!!!!! Note that boredom alone is not a reason to disbelieve something. I disbelieve it on other grounds. I will say that if I did believe it I would walk out on the gospel. Payoff not worth the effort.

[Calm]

Think of how much better it would be for all of us to be able to do everything, individually, though, without you having to call for someone with some skill in doing something you weren't able to do?

.

I don't see that as inherently better.

[CV75]

A couple of scriptural indicators of diversity in the celestial kingdom:

 

D&C 130:11, “And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.”

 

D&C 130:2, “And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.”

[Ahab]

I don't see that as inherently better.

It has to do with it being better for you, and anyone else, to be self-sufficient rather than NEEDING someone else to do something for you because you CAN'T do it yourself.

[Calm]

I don't see it as a bad thing to need people. It is only a problem if they aren't there.

God has set up the world so we learn to depend on him...and others. Our salvation requires it. We cannot give ourselves ordinances, for example. Why would God force dependency here to develop godly attributes when dependency itself is ungodly (in your theory)?

[Ahab]

I don't see it as a bad thing to need people. It is only a problem if they aren't therde.

God has set up the world so we learn to depend on him...and others. Our salvation requires it. We cannot give ourselves ordinances, for example. Why would God force dependency here to develop godly attributes when dependency itself is ungodly (in your theory)?

We rely on God, and others, to help us precisely because we CAN'T do certain things by ourselves, no matter how hard we may try, but that doesn't mean we should not try to do as much as we can by ourselves, or with others who can help us to teach us all that they know. So the more we know about how to do things the more we can do for ourselves, and the more we know that we can teach others the more they can learn from us until they know all that we know.

It's not that we must do everything we can do on our own. It's just that the more we know and can do the more we can help ourselves and others.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Ahab

[BlueDreams]

Different situations call for different moods.

 

Mood is not the same as personality. Different situations may call for different appropriate moods, but different personalities will simply approach the same situation differently...not necessary better or worse. For example, at a funeral it is appropriate/expected to cry or mourn and had a generally sad mood. Different personalities may show their missing through heavy emotional speeches, or prefer to share a favorite memory/joke shared, or sing a song, etc. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

It is horrifying to imagine that my destiny might as well be a pantheistic becoming one with the Universe because I really don't matter even as a god.

 

That's precisely what I was thinking. The thing I find most unsettling about Buddhism in particular is its insistence on the ultimate extinguishing of the self, like a drop of rain reabsorbed back into the ocean. Christianity in general has always offered up a personal God who values (and treats) His children as individuals, and LDS Christianity in particular offers the clearest, most brilliant portrait of this reality. I'm stunned by the desire manifest in this thread to clothe the pantheism of Hinduism or Buddhism in LDS garb and then offer it up as something we should actually be looking forward to.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

A few quotes:

 

Elder Maxwell:

And death is not the permanent annihilation of the human personality and individuality! President Brigham Young wisely declared that the preservation of human intelligence and individuality through the Atonement and resurrection “is the greatest gift that ever was bestowed on mankind.” (Journal of Discourses, 5:53.)

 

Elder Maxwell:

But is being consecrated and “swallowed up” a threat to our individuality? (See Mosiah 15:7.) No! Heavenly Father is only asking us to lose the old self in order to find the new and the real self. It is not a question of losing our identity but of finding our true identity!

 

Elder Nelson:

While I focus upon President Hinckley, Sister Hinckley should also be included. They have been married for 60 years and have long been one in spirit, while maintaining their individuality.

 

Elder Maxwell:

As we think about the process of becoming the men and women of Christ, questions may naturally arise, such as: “Will all the men and women of Christ be alike in every respect?” “Will there be a loss of individuality?” I think not. For instance, the quality of meekness is clearly essential, but there are many individual ways of expressing meekness.

 

Elder Bednar:

It is interesting to me that these trends of the world frequently promote a false individuality that is nothing more than a superficial and curious outward conformity. True individuality is the product of spirituality and is not a function of trinkets or ornaments attached to or hanging from parts of our body. The spiritual basis of individuality is never more evident to me than when I worship in the house of the Lord and everyone is dressed in similar white clothing, looking essentially the same. In that setting, no fads or fashion statements are necessary. The unity and outward sameness of appearance in the temple permits the individual spirit to shine through.

 

Elder Maxwell:

Having our wills increasingly swallowed up by the will of the Father actually means an enhanced individuality, stretched and more capable of receiving “all that [God] hath” (D&C 84:38).

 

President Faust:

Temple worship is a perfect example of our unity as Church members. All of us answer the same questions of worthiness to enter the temple. All the men dress alike. All the women dress alike. We leave the cares of the world behind us as we enter the temple. Everyone receives the same blessings. All make the same covenants. All are equal before the Lord. Yet within our spiritual unity there is wide room for everyone’s individuality and expression. In that setting, all are heirs to the kingdom of God.

 

Elder Maxwell:

So many of us are kept from eventual consecration because we mistakenly think that, somehow, by letting our will be swallowed up in the will of God, we lose our individuality (see Mosiah 15:7).

 

Elder Maxwell:

Besides, there is more individuality in those who are more holy.

 

Sin, on the other hand, brings sameness; it shrinks us to addictive appetites and insubordinate impulses. For a brief surging, selfish moment, sin may create the illusion of individuality, but only as in the grunting, galloping Gadarene swine! (See Matt. 8:28–32.)

Edited July 30, 2014 by Hamba Tuhan

[teddyaware]

That's precisely what I was thinking. The thing I find most unsettling about Buddhism in particular is its insistence on the ultimate extinguishing of the self, like a drop of rain reabsorbed back into the ocean. Christianity in particular has always offered up a personal God who values (and treats) His children as individuals, and LDS Christianity offers the clearest, most brilliant portrait of this reality. I'm stunned by the desire manifest in this thread to clothe the pantheism of Hinduism or Buddhism in LDS garb and then offer it up as something we should actually be looking forward to.

You misunderstand. Becoming one with the Father and the Son is the opposite of the extinguishing the self. Rather, the unique self is retained while the ability to comprehend, fully embrace and internalize all other personality types is added that the divine nature and mind might be all in all. God is all things to all men and can fully relate to each individual in their uniqueness because the divine personality encompasses and fully embraces all the unique personalities types into one great whole. Paul caught a glimpse of the glory and usefulness of this blessed state, and as a result was in full sincerity able to be all things to all men...

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. (1 Corinthians 9)

 

The divine mind embraces the fullness of all things. All things that are good are fully known and fully internalized by the mind and heart of God. Because God does not see one personality type as being superior to all the others, He is willing to validate, embrace and incorporate all personality types as reflections of His own. Like the colors that emanate from a prism, the mind and heart of God embraces all righteous personalities, for all righteous personalities are equally valid and useful in His sight. 

Please note the scriptures teach that God not only lives in us but we live in Him as well. Meaning, at least in part, that each of our unique personalities are part of who and what He is...

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. (1 John 3)

again,

 

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. (1 John 4)

again,

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4)

again,

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15)

 

If we dwell spiritually in God, as He spiritually dwells in us, then out of His all-embracing love God allows each of our personalities to become integral components of His own. By the means of this divine intimacy (God becoming one with us) He is able to communicate with and relate to each of us perfectly. There is never a personality conflict between God and any man because He willingly and joyfully incorporates all righteous personalities types into the very nature of who and what He is. He is "made all things to all men" that He might save us all through a process of divine intimacy that enables Him, without any barriers, to perfectly understand and relate to each and every one of His unique children.

 

Through the infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice, God is enabled to fully embrace and become fully unified with each and every man. God's is not a single bland personality, but He is an amalgamation of all personalities. He can present Himself as the meekest of the meek ( because He is the meekest of the meek) or as the mightiest of the mighty (because He is the mightiest of the mighty).

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by teddyaware