Why Do Some Sins Feel So Good?

[VideoGameJunkie]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

[The Nehor]

Sin is almost always the claiming of a good thing in an unauthorized way. A stolen apple is still tasty, illicit sex is still pleasurable, having a few drinks to escape your problems still makes you feel like you have escaped your problems. To quote Spencer W. Kimball: "Sin is fun."

The pain and grief usually comes later. I find the pattern is warning not to, pleasure at doing it, and then followed by grief often mingled with the desire for the pleasure again.

[bluebell]

The scripture is 'wickedness never was happiness,' not 'wickedness never was pleasurable.'  

 

Our brains and bodies are wired so that certain things feel good.  Meth, for example, or other such drugs (so i've heard).  That's part of nature-part of the 'natural man'.  A 'good' feeling doesn't mean it's 'good' for us, it just means that the natural man (the part of us that is ruled by our biological nature) likes it.

 

Besides all of that, if sin were instantly painful, and righteousness was instantly joyous and wonderful, we would all be like lab rats, conditioned to do something without really knowing or caring why we do it.  We would be making decisions based on  what we were going to get, and not because we wanted to do what was right.

 

In order for God to test us to see whether we would choose Him or choose something else, He had to create a testing space that allowed people to make choices without instant reward or punishment.  That is the only way for us to know whether or not we are truly becoming a new creature in Christ, or if we are just pushing the 'obedience' button so that cheese will appear.   

[JLHPROF]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

 

It's not about how they feel.  It's not even about whether the good feelings are temporary or permanent.  It's about the end result of the sin.

The scriptures say that the wages of sin are death.  Sin of any kind is essentially flawed and will always lead down a path that does not achieve positive results in the long run.

Choosing righteousness can be unpleasant, uncomfortable and even irritating, but the end result will always be positive.

 

We begin with the end in mind.  When we are obsessed with how things make us feel we will frequently make wrong choices.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

They do...that is why the joy is temporary.

[Storm Rider]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

 

I think most sin is the result of distortion or exaggeration of our passions. Our passions are god-given and are there to lead us to right choices; however, the passions must be mastered and subjected to the will and guidance of the Spirit.  Consistent abuse of our passions leads to unhappiness and death as the scriptures state. 

 

I know it is just semantics, but I distinguish between joy, a spiritual union with the Spirit and completely godly emotion, and happiness which is finite, gratification, and can result from temporary events - ice cream, sporting events, etc. Sin never brings joy; sin may bring instant gratification, but that is all. 

[canard78]

Sin is almost always the claiming of a good thing in an unauthorized way. A stolen apple is still tasty, illicit sex is still pleasurable, having a few drinks to escape your problems still makes you feel like you have escaped your problems. To quote Spencer W. Kimball: "Sin is fun."

The pain and grief usually comes later. I find the pattern is warning not to, pleasure at doing it, and then followed by grief often mingled with the desire for the pleasure again.

This is an interesting thought. So does that mean that if a behaviour leads to no pain or grief that it is not sinful?

Is (eventual) pain and grief the way of discerning sin?

If someone has an occasional glass of wine with a meal and is otherwise healthy and never descends into alcoholism are they committing no sin?

In "The God Who Weeps" the Givenses discuss the idea that sin is behaviour that causes pain to ourself or to others and that guilt is the emotion of recognising the pain that has been caused.

If there is neither pain caused nor guilt felt, is there no sin?

[janderich]

In the Screwtape Letters C. S. Lewis gives interesting insight. In the below quote the "enemy" is God and the old demon is giving advice to his nephew Wormwood: 

 

Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy’s ground.

 

I know we have won many a soul through pleasure. All the same, it is His invention, not ours. He made the pleasures: all our research so far has not enabled us to produce one. All we can do is to encourage to humans to take the pleasures which our Enemy has produced, at times, or in ways, or in degrees which He has forbidden.

 

Hence we always try to work away from the natural condition of any pleasure to that in which it is least natural, least redolent of its Maker, and least pleasurable. An ever-increasing craving for an ever diminishing pleasure is the formula. (p.44-45)

I find this idea that the adversary tries to twist a pleasure into its most unnatural state interesting. Someone that really pursues a carnal pleasure will find diminishing returns each time unless they pervert the natural state even more or increase the amount of sin. At some point it becomes impossible to keep up.

 

In any case, happiness is not the final state of such a soul. They spiral down and down in their mad grab for pleasure until they find only misery in the very thing they first found pleasurable. What's more, they are unable to let the misery go. They cannot give it up. They have become slaves to their carnal nature and are in the gall of bitterness. 

Edited April 26, 2014 by janderich

[thatjimguy]

It's not about how they feel.  It's not even about whether the good feelings are temporary or permanent.  It's about the end result of the sin.

The scriptures say that the wages of sin are death.  Sin of any kind is essentially flawed and will always lead down a path that does not achieve positive results in the long run.

Choosing righteousness can be unpleasant, uncomfortable and even irritating, but the end result will always be positive.

 

We begin with the end in mind.  When we are obsessed with how things make us feel we will frequently make wrong choices.

 

I would say a lot that has to do with avoiding sin, at least for me, is the idea that I beleive at that point I am wasting my time bothering not to. Its just an excersise in futility for a blessing that never comes. Its like going on a diet and still having a gut with no noticible change.

[CV75]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

Brain chemistry, which is only "natural" and why we are here to learn to manage it spiritually.

[cdowis]

I remember an episode of the Andy Griffith Show where he had a father son discussion.  He talked about fishing where you use a nice shiny lure.

 

 As Nibley observed, Satan knows that he cannot compete with heaven, so he can only offer those temporary pleasures.  God gives those two choices equal weight to give us complete free agency.

 

I personally like the analogy between fireworks and a woodburning stove.  One dazzles us, and the other keeps us warm and safe.

[The Nehor]

This is an interesting thought. So does that mean that if a behaviour leads to no pain or grief that it is not sinful?

Is (eventual) pain and grief the way of discerning sin?

If someone has an occasional glass of wine with a meal and is otherwise healthy and never descends into alcoholism are they committing no sin?

In "The God Who Weeps" the Givenses discuss the idea that sin is behaviour that causes pain to ourself or to others and that guilt is the emotion of recognising the pain that has been caused.

If there is neither pain caused nor guilt felt, is there no sin?

 

Yes, but I wouldn't do something and then sit around waiting for grief to establish whether it is a sin. The scriptures are probably a better choice. Some sins do not cause overt pain, grief, and guilt and some souls have so seared their consciences and the Light of Christ that they are beyond consciously feeling it. Most of us know irritable angry people who lead lives of self-indulgence yet are angry and fearful much of the time. Sometimes the fruits of sin are too subtle for the user to feel. Still, we are a book of life and unrepented sins add up and influence personality.

 

The glass of wine is a strange example. For a member of the Church who has made covenants it is a sin. The Word of Wisdom is not a general law. In the preface it is specifically given to the Saints only. So a non-member having an occasional glass of wine is not a sin.

[Duncan]

This is an interesting thought. So does that mean that if a behaviour leads to no pain or grief that it is not sinful?

Is (eventual) pain and grief the way of discerning sin?

If someone has an occasional glass of wine with a meal and is otherwise healthy and never descends into alcoholism are they committing no sin?

In "The God Who Weeps" the Givenses discuss the idea that sin is behaviour that causes pain to ourself or to others and that guilt is the emotion of recognising the pain that has been caused.

If there is neither pain caused nor guilt felt, is there no sin?

 

 

maybe not to ourselves but to others. I might find some objectionable and hurt me very much but people I love may not see it that way

[Kenngo1969]

I would say a lot that has to do with avoiding sin, at least for me, is the idea that I beleive at that point I am wasting my time bothering not to. Its just an excersise in futility for a blessing that never comes. Its like going on a diet and still having a gut with no noticible change.

I get your cynicism; I really do.  The promises of eternity can seem so ethereal and illusory at times.  (That darn veil, and those darn vicissitudes of mortality! )  The only thing I can say is that often, we're not fully cognizant of all of the blessings we receive here in mortality.  For example, it's easy, if we're inspired to take a different route home and we learn from watching the news that there was a major accident or incident along our usual route at about the time we normally would pass that spot on our commute, to say, "Wow! What a blessing!" And thank our Heavenly Father.  (As for those who did not escape such a fate, it's easy [and only natural] to wonder why they did not receive the same blessing: As the lyrics in the song, "Slip Slidin' Away" put it, "God only knows.  God makes His plans.  The information's unavailable to the mortal man.")  When we're "saved" from a particular occurrence, on the one hand, while it befalls others, on the other hand, it's natural to wonder how both things possibly could be consistent with God's will.  I don't know.  I only believe that neither His thoughts nor His ways are my thoughts or my ways (Isaiah 55:8-9).  I only believe that "all flesh is in [His] hands" (Doctrine & Covenants 101:16).  I only believe that "[A]ll things [both "good" and "bad"] work together for good to them that love God" (Romans 8:28).  With Nephi, I can only say, "I know not the meaning of all things.  Nevertheless, I know that [God] loveth His children" (1 Nephi 11:17).

 

While I do believe that there are dangers in quid pro quo obedience, in treating God as though He were Santa Claus (who gives us presents when we're "good" and who doesn't when we're "bad") and so on, while not everyone who is not under covenant to obey the Word of Wisdom is an irresolute drunkard, I do know for sure that no one who obeys it is; and while not everyone who is not under covenant to obey the Law of Chastity is a crazed, disease-ridden sex fiend who is a slave to his appetites, I do know for sure that no one who obeys it is.  And so on.  But while there are blessings that accrue to everyone who obeys the Word of Wisdom and the Law of Chastity (escaping disease, avoiding addiction, and so on), I believe there is increased power and additional blessings in keeping covenants.  On the 1,735,450,500th "Is the Word of Wisdom Really Worth it ... Because (Did You Know) Coffee Has Antioxidants In It" thread, I said, "I don't care if it is the very Elixir of Life.  I have covenanted to not drink it, and I know I'll be blessed for keeping that covenant."

 

Having said all of this, the Dog of Clinical Depression has alternated between nipping at my heels and threatening to devour me whole for many years.  That, and any other psychiatric diagnoses, can severely impact one's outlook and, perhaps, one's ability to live the Gospel (at least with respect to the "Do" commandments, if not with respect to their "Do Not" counterparts).  It certainly has in my case.  But I believe God will be as merciful as He can at the judgment.  (Else why the Atonement?  And of course, Christ took upon Himself not only our sins, but our infirmities, as well, so He could know how to succor us)  The bottom line is, I often don't feel like doing the things required by the "Do" commandments.  (For example, sometimes it's a struggle to get to Church).  But I ask myself if I'll feel better or if it'll solve the problem if I don't do whatever it is I (temporarily) don't feel like doing, and the answer's always, "No."  And even if I feel terrible, almost without exception, I feel better mingling with my fellow Saints than I would if I were not to do so.

 

And do the things God asks me to do fill my soul, depression notwithstanding?  They do.  For what it's worth. 

[Ron Beron]

Sin feels good because it so much of our personalities.  To get rid of the sin is to remove a portion of our personality.  We don't want to do that...it's ours.

[Flyonthewall]

I get your cynicism; I really do.  The promises of eternity can seem so ethereal and illusory at times.  (That darn veil, and those darn vicissitudes of mortality! )  The only thing I can say is that often, we're not fully cognizant of all of the blessings we receive here in mortality.  For example, it's easy, if we're inspired to take a different route home and we learn from watching the news that there was a major accident or incident along our usual route at about the time we normally would pass that spot on our commute, to say, "Wow! What a blessing!" And thank our Heavenly Father.  (As for those who did not escape such a fate, it's easy [and only natural] to wonder why they did not receive the same blessing: As the lyrics in the song, "Slip Slidin' Away" put it, "God only knows.  God makes His plans.  The information's unavailable to the mortal man.")  When we're "saved" from a particular occurrence, on the one hand, while it befalls others, on the other hand, it's natural to wonder how both things possibly could be consistent with God's will.  I don't know.  I only believe that neither His thoughts nor His ways are my thoughts or my ways (Isaiah 55:8-9).  I only believe that "all flesh is in [His] hands" (Doctrine & Covenants 101:16).  I only believe that "[A]ll things [both "good" and "bad"] work together for good to them that love God" (Romans 8:28).  With Nephi, I can only say, "I know not the meaning of all things.  Nevertheless, I know that [God] loveth His children" (1 Nephi 11:17).

It is not easy for the one that is not saved from the "occurrence". It brings to mind Charlie Brown on Halloween... while he goes trick or treating with the others to the same houses, says the same thing as the others... but while others get candy, he gets a rock...time after time.

 

While I do believe that there are dangers in quid pro quo obedience, in treating God as though He were Santa Claus (who gives us presents when we're "good" and who doesn't when we're "bad") and so on, while not everyone who is not under covenant to obey the Word of Wisdom is an irresolute drunkard, I do know for sure that no one who obeys it is; and while not everyone who is not under covenant to obey the Law of Chastity is a crazed, disease-ridden sex fiend who is a slave to his appetites, I do know for sure that no one who obeys it is.  And so on.  But while there are blessings that accrue to everyone who obeys the Word of Wisdom and the Law of Chastity (escaping disease, avoiding addiction, and so on), I believe there is increased power and additional blessings in keeping covenants.  On the 1,735,450,500th "Is the Word of Wisdom Really Worth it ... Because (Did You Know) Coffee Has Antioxidants In It" thread, I said, "I don't care if it is the very Elixir of Life.  I have covenanted to not drink it, and I know I'll be blessed for keeping that covenant."

Would it hurt for Charlie Brown to get a piece of candy somewhere along the line? Sooner or later he is going to realize that he's not going to get any candy and give up and go home.

Men are that they might have joy... but when the very things that are supposed bring that joy only bring heartache/break, frustration, and depression, there is not much to look forward to.

I believe it is a loving parent that would be encouraging and not silent.

Having said all of this, the Dog of Clinical Depression has alternated between nipping at my heels and threatening to devour me whole for many years.  That, and any other psychiatric diagnoses, can severely impact one's outlook and, perhaps, one's ability to live the Gospel (at least with respect to the "Do" commandments, if not with respect to their "Do Not" counterparts).  It certainly has in my case.  But I believe God will be as merciful as He can at the judgment.  (Else why the Atonement?  And of course, Christ took upon Himself not only our sins, but our infirmities, as well, so He could know how to succor us)  The bottom line is, I often don't feel like doing the things required by the "Do" commandments.  (For example, sometimes it's a struggle to get to Church).  But I ask myself if I'll feel better or if it'll solve the problem if I don't do whatever it is I (temporarily) don't feel like doing, and the answer's always, "No."  And even if I feel terrible, almost without exception, I feel better mingling with my fellow Saints than I would if I were not to do so.

I think Charlie Brown would find it temporarily uplifting to be with all the others in the group that got candy, watching them enjoy the fruits of their labor, but at some point Charlie will realize that those fruits that others enjoy only point out his own failures and his own seemingly innate disfavor and may seek solace elsewhere...

[ERayR]

If sins are bad for you, how come some of them bring such temporary joy? Shouldn't sins bring pain and sorrow and bad feelings in the moment of the sin?

 

Nobody would sin if they didn't.

[Kenngo1969]

Fly on the Wall:

 

It is not easy for the one that is not saved from the "occurrence". It brings to mind Charlie Brown on Halloween... while he goes trick or treating with the others to the same houses, says the same thing as the others... but while others get candy, he gets a rock...time after time.

 

 

Sometimes (often) it isn’t.  Job didn’t do anything wrong: he suffered anyway.  But he still said, “The Lord giveth, and the Lord hath taken away.  Blessed be the name of the Lord” (Job 1:21).  Christ didn’t do anything wrong: He suffered anyway.  But He still said, “Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt” (Matthew 26:39).  Shadrach, Meschach, and Abed-Nego eventually were delivered from King Nebuchadnezzar’s fiery furnace, but they were prepared for a different outcome: “[O]ur God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.  But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up” (Daniel 3:18-19). 

 

If one isn’t saved from an adverse event and dies as a result, he goes to a far better world than this one, anyway (and, by and large, that’s true of even the worst of us).  If one isn’t saved from an adverse event and suffers nonlethal (but grave) consequences as a result, such adversity can be an excellent teacher (if he allows it).  Often, we cannot choose our circumstances in this life: all we can choose is our reaction to those circumstances.

 

Would it hurt for Charlie Brown to get a piece of candy somewhere along the line? Sooner or later he is going to realize that he's not going to get any candy and give up and go home.  Men are that they might have joy... but when the very things that are supposed bring that joy only bring heartache/break, frustration, and depression, there is not much to look forward to.  I believe it is a loving parent that would be encouraging and not silent.

 

 

You’ll have to ask Charles Schulz why Charlie Brown’s love for the little red-haired girl never was requited, why Lucy never let him kick the football, or why he only got rocks instead of candy on Halloween.  Perhaps part of the reason why is because far more viewers and readers can identify with Charlie Brown, the “Loveable Failure” better than they would be able to identify with him if he were successful.  I believe God is a loving parent, too.  But the scriptures tell us: “For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant” (Doctrine and Covenants 58:26).  So we need not be concerned that God doesn’t love us even when He seems silent.  Were it otherwise, we would never learn to walk by faith rather than by sight.  As the old saying goes, “The teacher is always silent during the test.”  Often, we don’t realize what we’re learning during the trial: often, such realization only comes after the trial.  It's trite and cliche, but I still like the "Footprints in the Sand" story: a mortal, veiled perspective doesn't allow us to recognize all of the ways God helps us in our lives (even though it often seems as though He is silent).

 

I think Charlie Brown would find it temporarily uplifting to be with all the others in the group that got candy, watching them enjoy the fruits of their labor, but at some point Charlie will realize that those fruits that others enjoy only point out his own failures and his own seemingly innate disfavor and may seek solace elsewhere...

 

 

And that illustrates the problem with comparing our trials and blessings with others’ trials and blessings: often, it seems (outwardly) that others’ trials aren’t as pressing as our own, and that their blessings are more abundant than our own – the operative word there being seems: as one of our Hymns puts it, “In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can’t see.”  When my brother was called as a Bishop, his first week after counseling the members of his flock, he came home and told my sister-in-law, “Let’s just be grateful for our problems.”  I think that’s a prudent approach.

[Calm]

And that illustrates the problem with comparing our trials and blessings with others’ trials and blessings: often, it seems (outwardly) that others’ trials aren’t as pressing as our own, and that their blessings are more abundant than our own – the operative word there being seems: as one of our Hymns puts it, “In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can’t see.”  When my brother was called as a Bishop, his first week after counseling the members of his flock, he came home and told my sister-in-law, “Let’s just be grateful for our problems.”  I think that’s a prudent approach.

Then there is the issue where our expectations lead us to see rocks where it is really rock candy.

[The Nehor]

It is not easy for the one that is not saved from the "occurrence". It brings to mind Charlie Brown on Halloween... while he goes trick or treating with the others to the same houses, says the same thing as the others... but while others get candy, he gets a rock...time after time.

 

Would it hurt for Charlie Brown to get a piece of candy somewhere along the line? Sooner or later he is going to realize that he's not going to get any candy and give up and go home.

Men are that they might have joy... but when the very things that are supposed bring that joy only bring heartache/break, frustration, and depression, there is not much to look forward to.

I believe it is a loving parent that would be encouraging and not silent.

I think Charlie Brown would find it temporarily uplifting to be with all the others in the group that got candy, watching them enjoy the fruits of their labor, but at some point Charlie will realize that those fruits that others enjoy only point out his own failures and his own seemingly innate disfavor and may seek solace elsewhere...

 

Maybe that is part of Charlie Brown's trial? Maybe he has trouble taking joy in the successes of others and needs to learn?

 

In the Prodigal Son the Elder Son still didn't get the lamb to make merry with his friends while the younger brother had the fatted calves slaughtered in his honor. Living the life of the Elder Son is rough but the retirement plan is very nice.

[stemelbow]

There is the possibility that what we call sin is not really sin.

[The Nehor]

There is the possibility that what we call sin is not really sin.

 

Cool, new game.

 

For the following which category are they in?

 

Sin or no Sin?

 

Pansexual orgies

 

Chewing with mouth open

 

Showing up at house of your worst enemy and throwing rocks at the windows while howling obscenities

 

Burning kittens alive

 

Burning spiders alive

 

Insulting fat people

 

Murdering people who own humvees

 

Handcuffing yourself to an attractive member of your gender preference to protest being single

 

Eating jello with carrots

[stemelbow]

Cool, new game.

 

For the following which category are they in?

 

Sin or no Sin?

 

Pansexual orgies

huh? probably sin, but I don't even know what that is.

 

Chewing with mouth open

My grandma disagrees with me, but this is no sin.

 

Showing up at house of your worst enemy and throwing rocks at the windows while howling obscenities

Some actions can be justified. We need context here.

 

Burning kittens alive

To eat 'em?

 

Burning spiders alive

Same. Are you gonna eat 'em? Because that's probably ok to do. I don't know that they'll squeal like the lobsters do.

 

Insulting fat people

My fat guy neighbor told me my mere presence insults him. I don't bring up his weight though. I did insult a heavy guy once for his weight because he threatened to beat up my son for no apparent reason. I maintain I did not sin in that instance.

 

Murdering people who own Humvees

Read the scrips, bro. Apparently people have been murdering others and are honored for it for thousands of years.

 

Handcuffing yourself to an attractive member of your gender preference to protest being single

Sounds like a terrible sin to me. I sinned greatly during my single life according to all the holy old folks who wondered why I remained single as long as I did.

 

Eating jello with carrots

Ain't so bad.

[ERMD]

Agree with many of the above; I especially like Screwtape.  I've had my kids read it.

 

What if we don't think something is a sin?  I use my triangulation method of finding the truth--Scripture, compared to modern-day revelation, compared to my own feelings/impressions/personal revelation.  If they are all in agreement, I am on solid ground.  If one is out of line, there is a problem, and it is invariably me.

[Gray]

Of all sins, the most enjoyable by far is sloth.