Participant In Ow Protest Describes Being Mocked And Harassed By Conference Goers

[smac97]

Here:

 

As I sit down to write about my experience involving the Ordain Women Movement on Temple Square, I want to stress that this is only a collection of my thoughts and experiences. I am speaking only for myself, I have no desire to speak for anyone else. 

...

Once I heard of this latest organization pushing for ordination I wanted to go and observe as well as help in a small way. To this end my brother and I went to temple square to stand in line to obtain priesthood tickets.  We arrived at about 3:30 when the line was about 100 people for standby tickets. By the time we got our tickets about an hour later the line had swelled to about 600-800 people.

 

Hmm.  I went to Temple Square at about 4:45 to get in the standby line.  I was directed to the Tabernacle, where everyone was seated in the order in which they entered.  There were several hundred brethren seated in front of me.  Nobody was given tickets until after the Priesthood Session had already started (about 6:05).  They ran out of tickets before the got to me.

 

While in line many members were lightheartedly mocking the Ordain Women movement, as well as making general statements about why people could not just allow the church to have general conference in peace.

 

I suppose there could have been a "line" from 3:30 to 4:30, as alleged by this fellow.  But nobody around me made any comments about the OW group.

 

Here's the description of what purportedly happened at the park prior to the OW group going to Temple Square:

 

After the brief interaction there were several speakers addressing the crowd followed by a hymn and pIrayer. Once finished, people were organized into a line and began to walk over to Temple Square. While walking onto church property, hecklers demanded that “Women must submit to your husbands and boyfriends” as well as calls of “apostate,” and addressing the men in the group as “sissy boys” and “faggots.” One male member of the Ordain Women group responded with “I do submit to my husband” This was met with calls of “sodomite” and “abomination.”

 

Um, I'm having a hard time lending credence to these claims.

 

Once the group had entered church property, several small groups of two to three men dressed in suits and appearing to be church members though not church employees continued to heckle the group, demanding to see Temple recommends and proof of church membership. There were further cries of “apostates,” “repent,” “false members,” as well as one individual again yelling “faggot.”

 

I am having a very hard time lending credence to this claim.  I was right next to the OW group from about 6:10 to about 7:25.  I did not see a single inappropriate communication such as is described above.

 

Most photo and video journalists did not enter temple grounds following previous request from church leadership that they refrain from doing so. Upon approaching the Tabernacle where overflow seating for the Priesthood session of conference was being held, the Ordain Woman’s movement began lining up in front of the entrance to the Tabernacle.  They were met with church workers who refused them admittance based on the fact that they did not have tickets as well as that they were women.

 

The part about not admitting the OW group based on a lack of tickets is flatly not true.  The Tabernacle was where the people in the standby line who did not get in to the Conference Center could watch the Priesthood Session, along with any other brethren.

 

It should be noted that tickets had been distributed two hours prior, but that the Ordain Women members did, in fact, have the two tickets my brother and I had given them. While this was happening there were several videographers and people with professional grade still cameras capturing the scene, as well as many cell phone cameras. One videographer was approached by church security who informed them that cameras were not allowed on temple grounds. When the camera operator pointed out others with cameras, the security personnel responded that “they are credentialed.”

 

Soon afterwards, groups of men appeared with umbrellas and began blocking cameras from being able to record. These men did not appear to be church employees but rather church members who happened to be there.

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

As I began to leave, I heard a group of young men in suits making mocking comments about the crying women. One of them commented, “What do they care, they should be baking.”

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

My overall impression is that the Ordain Women’s movement handled themselves with class and dignity.

 

Apart from trespassing on Church property after being twice requested not to, I pretty much agree with this sentiment.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[MorningStar]

I can't ever imagine an LDS man yelling at women that they're supposed to submit to their husbands or comment that they should be home baking.  This guy starts off by trying to convince us he's indifferent, but it's not very believable.  Indifferent people don't go to the trouble to go to the conference center to obtain tickets for people who aren't invited to go to Priesthood session. 

[Ahab]

Somebody should tell that guy about our Lord's law against bearing a false witness, as well as the unwritten law against being the kind of jerk who bears a false witness against his neighbors.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Ahab

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Yeah, so we just have to take this fellow's word for it. Further more "They looked like church members" does not mean they were even if I believed that those comments were made. And even if those comments were made but members so what (It is not right if they did). That is not what is supposed to happen. What should we do now? Give women the priesthood? I am just not sure what the point of his writings were.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I can't ever imagine an LDS man yelling at women that they're supposed to submit to their husbands or comment that they should be home baking.  This guy starts off by trying to convince us he's indifferent, but it's not very believable.  Indifferent people don't go to the trouble to go to the conference center to obtain tickets for people who aren't invited to go to Priesthood session. 

Yeah, that kind of lets the cat out of the bag, doesn't it?

[USU78]

 

Apart from trespassing on Church property after being twice requested not to, I pretty much agree with this sentiment.

 

 

You left out the part about their refusing to leave when asked to do so.

 

One of the greatest problem with protestors in general and in this particular instance is their refusal to recognize they are not free to ignore others' rights.

 

If I am hemmed in by a "park-in" and unable to leave the building where I work, I have had my liberty rights impinged upon by the protestor.

 

If others park their heinies on the sidewalk, blocking my access to my destination, I have had my liberty rights impinged upon by the protestor.

 

If I post a "no trespassing" sign or specifically tell protestors to stay off my property and they refuse to comply, I have had both my liberty rights and my property rights impinged upon by the protestor.

 

Ain't nuthin' classy about the actions of those who refuse to stop when asked not to impinge upon liberty and property rights.  I don't care how prettily they smile while doing it.

[rpn]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.   I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise)  might have said such things.

[bluebell]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.   I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise)  might have said such things.

 

I'm with you on that rpn.

 

I just can't imagine active church members even using those words in public (like sodomites, for example).  But they are words which are frequently heard from the anti-mormon protesters that are present.

 

I'm sure there were some lds members who were saying mocking things about OW, but it is extremely hard to believe that those people who went to this level are a part of the church.

[why me]

I can't ever imagine an LDS man yelling at women that they're supposed to submit to their husbands or comment that they should be home baking.  This guy starts off by trying to convince us he's indifferent, but it's not very believable.  Indifferent people don't go to the trouble to go to the conference center to obtain tickets for people who aren't invited to go to Priesthood session. 

The comments by the man seem more like wishful thinking from the blogger. Most likely it did not happen because such sayings as claimed by the blogger seem too typical of what she wished a man would have said. OW failed in its objective. And now they must rally the troops and  get them in line to support the next cause against the church.

[frank_jessop]

I am having a very hard time lending credence to this claim. I was right next to the OW group from about 6:10 to about 7:25. I did not see a single inappropriate communication such as is described above.

-Smac

Is there the possibility that you did hear the comments, but you simply do not think the comments are inappropriate. Your posts/threads about OW offer insight in the kind of commentary you deem appropriate with regard to OW and its participants.

[why me]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.   I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise)  might have said such things.

The comments were too opportune to be true. I tend to doubt that they even happened. But it does play up to getting the crowd aroused for the next battle aginst the church. I don't think that no sane mormon would claim such a thing.

[ERayR]

 

Here:

 

 

 

Hmm.  I went to Temple Square at about 4:45 to get in the standby line.  I was directed to the Tabernacle, where everyone was seated in the order in which they entered.  There were several hundred brethren seated in front of me.  Nobody was given tickets until after the Priesthood Session had already started (about 6:05).  They ran out of tickets before the got to me.

 

 

 

I suppose there could have been a "line" from 3:30 to 4:30, as alleged by this fellow.  But nobody around me made any comments about the OW group.

 

Here's the description of what purportedly happened at the park prior to the OW group going to Temple Square:

 

 

 

Um, I'm having a hard time lending credence to these claims.

 

 

 

I am having a very hard time lending credence to this claim.  I was right next to the OW group from about 6:10 to about 7:25.  I did not see a single inappropriate communication such as is described above.

 

 

 

The part about not admitting the OW group based on a lack of tickets is flatly not true.  The Tabernacle was where the people in the standby line who did not get in to the Conference Center could watch the Priesthood Session, along with any other brethren.

 

 

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

 

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

 

 

Apart from trespassing on Church property after being twice requested not to, I pretty much agree with this sentiment.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

 

 

You have got to admit his story is much more dramatic and damning.

[ERayR]

I can't ever imagine an LDS man yelling at women that they're supposed to submit to their husbands or comment that they should be home baking.

 

You are absolutely right, if he did his wife would not bake him any cookies for a month.

[MorningStar]

One man commented:

I was there, participating in the demonstration, walking from BY park to temple square. I support the OW movement. I find the descriptions in this post to be very exaggerated, relative to my own experience. The only really egregious hecklers were the ones outside the temple grounds, and those guys were clearly not Mormon. Those are the crazy biker evangelicals that would (and do) yell things just as offensive to any Mormon on conference weekend. I find this post to be very misleading because it lumps those guys in with the actual Mormons who engaged the procession on temple grounds.

Once we were on temple grounds, only one person did what I would characterize as “heckling.” It was the tall, weird looking guy with the bicycle. And he wasn’t yelling epithets, he was saying “Where’s your recommend? You’re false members!” He seemed kind of creepy, but I didn’t find him intimidating, or really even offensive.

I’m not denying that the other stuff the author of this post describes happened. I’m just saying that I was there and I didn’t see or experience any of that.

 

 

Yes, even an OW supporter finds this article to be inaccurate.

[smac97]

Is there the possibility that you did hear the comments, but you simply do not think the comments are inappropriate. Your posts/threads about OW offer insight in the kind of commentary you deem appropriate with regard to OW and its participants.

 

I neither saw or overheard any angry or aggressive or rude interactions.  Most of the interactions were between the protesters themselves (hugging, laughing, crying, joking, dancing, etc.).  I saw a few people approach the group and talk with individual protesters, and the protesters appeared earnest in their comments.  Everything I saw was civil, even cordial.  No shouting, no name-calling, no confrontations.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[frank_jessop]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise) might have said such things.

My initial thought as well.

Though there is this from 2012 concerning wearing pants to Church:

"Every single person who is a minority activist, should be shot... in the face... point blank... GET OVER YOURSELVES...."

[Scott Lloyd]

 

Here:

 

 

 

Hmm.  I went to Temple Square at about 4:45 to get in the standby line.  I was directed to the Tabernacle, where everyone was seated in the order in which they entered.  There were several hundred brethren seated in front of me.  Nobody was given tickets until after the Priesthood Session had already started (about 6:05).  They ran out of tickets before the got to me.

 

 

 

I suppose there could have been a "line" from 3:30 to 4:30, as alleged by this fellow.  But nobody around me made any comments about the OW group.

 

Here's the description of what purportedly happened at the park prior to the OW group going to Temple Square:

 

 

 

Um, I'm having a hard time lending credence to these claims.

 

 

 

I am having a very hard time lending credence to this claim.  I was right next to the OW group from about 6:10 to about 7:25.  I did not see a single inappropriate communication such as is described above.

 

 

 

The part about not admitting the OW group based on a lack of tickets is flatly not true.  The Tabernacle was where the people in the standby line who did not get in to the Conference Center could watch the Priesthood Session, along with any other brethren.

 

 

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

 

 

Nothing like this happened while I was there from about 6:10 to about 7:25.

 

 

 

Apart from trespassing on Church property after being twice requested not to, I pretty much agree with this sentiment.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

 

The whole report bears the marks of an anti-Mormon caricature: Take some of the worst things you can conceive an active Church member saying and doing and work them into one tall tale.

[Senator]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.   I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise)  might have said such things.

 

I too agree with this.

 

Of course, it is easier, makes me feel much better to just say they were bearing false witness

[ERayR]

My initial thought as well.

Though there is this from 2012 concerning wearing pants to Church:

"Every single person who is a minority activist, should be shot... in the face... point blank... GET OVER YOURSELVES...."

 

I just love your christian attitude.

[The Nehor]

Though there is this from 2012 concerning wearing pants to Church:

"Every single person who is a minority activist, should be shot... in the face... point blank... GET OVER YOURSELVES...."

People get angry if I don't wear pants to church.

[Gohan]

My initial thought as well.

Though there is this from 2012 concerning wearing pants to Church:

"Every single person who is a minority activist, should be shot... in the face... point blank... GET OVER YOURSELVES....

So what's the point of you throwing that (random anonymous) quote out there?

 

Doesn't seem germane to the discussion, except to demonstrate that people can be idiots. And potentially to try and derail the thread.

[EllenMaksoud]

There were independent reports of those submit to husbands comments as they passed the free speech zones.   I'm inclined to believe that the regular protesters(not church members, not anyone lds officially or otherwise)  might have said such things.

I actually do not care if women get ordained or not because I view the priesthood as a way to get the men to actually do something. Otherwise they would do nothing.  That active LDS men would mock women seeking ordination is a bigger obstacle to me than anything. I have had many bad experiences with men and one of the things that drew me to the Mormon church was how gentle the men I met were. When I run into a nasty Mormon man, I just want to grab my hijab and head for Riyad.

[Calm]

Is there the possibility that you did hear the comments, but you simply do not think the comments are inappropriate. Your posts/threads about OW offer insight in the kind of commentary you deem appropriate with regard to OW and its participants.

Smac has never given the impression he would be okay with any type of harassment and definitely not what was described, IMO.

I have heard two other reports by friends, including being in the park. As rpn suggested there were some regular anti-Mormon protestors who were harassing them in the park, sound like they followed them to the square.

This is similar to what happened last year where one of the news videographer reported the street preachers yelling at the women.

[smac97]

Smac has never given the impression he would be okay with any type of harassment and definitely not what was described, IMO.

I have heard two other reports by friends, including being in the park. As rpn suggested there were some regular anti-Mormon protestors who were harassing them in the park, sound like they followed them to the square.

This is similar to what happened last year where one of the news videographer reported the street preachers yelling at the women.

 

Well, to be honest, I was uncharitable by starting a thread yesterday in which I compared the OW group to anti-mormon protesters and asked which was more contemptible.  I regret that, and I apologized in that thread and sent a note to the mods asking them to lock it.

 

However, I have never advocated any harassment or unkind treatment of the OW folks.  I think the OW folks acted wrongfully, but I've never been a fan of the "right back atcha" mentality.  The Church's representatives did a great job of being civil and polite to the OW folks, even as those folks trespassed and protested on sacred ground.  I commend the Church for that.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[JLHPROF]

The OW group had better be careful about the half-truths they are allowing their supporters to state to the media.

Based on what has been described by reporters and witnesses they've overinflated their attendance numbers and now someone is claiming to have received verbal abuse.

 

So far OW has at the very least been honest and sincere.  If they allow a few members into exaggeration territory they might find their cause losing some credibility.  I don't think that it's all of OW heading down that path, but it's important to stick to the facts.