Adoption Pressure

[Stone holm]

From time to time you will hear some woman explode verbally about the pressure put on her unwed daughter, niece or friend to give up her child for adoption. I believe something about this may have erupted during the Romney campaign. Am not sure of my own feelings, although if believe I would lean away from it for a daughter and would offer to raise the child myself instead. I can understand the policy and the reasoning, it just slightly makes me uncomfortable. Thoughts anyone?

[strappinglad]

If the young woman has a good support system behind her then adoption can be down the list as an option. Statistically , keeping the child can be a road to lifelong poverty . A lot depends on whether the girl is 15 or 25. Personally, I am very grateful for a woman who had the courage and insight to give me a chance at ,what turned out to be, a VERY good life.

[thesometimesaint]

That would lead to some interesting talks. My wife and I semi-adopted our Grandnephew, and while he is great kid(I should say young man) in some ways it would have been better if  he was adopted.

[Kenngo1969]

If the young woman has a good support system behind her then adoption can be down the list as an option. Statistically , keeping the child can be a road to lifelong poverty . A lot depends on whether the girl is 15 or 25. Personally, I am very grateful for a woman who had the courage and insight to give me a chance at ,what turned out to be, a VERY good life.

Wow.  Thanks for chiming in, strappinglad.  I don't have any first-hand experience with adoption, but I went out for a few years with a girl who was adopted.  Was her life after being adopted better than it would have been otherwise?  True, I didn't know her birth parents or situation specifically, but, simply based on my general knowledge of the overwhelming poverty, substandard health care, and other conditions that prevail/prevailed where she came from, I have to say that the odds are very good that's the case.  Still, it didn't change the fact that in a physical/temporal sense, in some ways she felt that she really didn't know who she was.  To a certain degree, she felt rootless. (Perhaps the situation is somewhat different now, as maybe more people opt for more openness.)  Degree of openness, and whether birth and adoptive parents opt to allow some degree of contact between one another can make a difference, I think.

[rpn]

In today's world, it can be a very hard decision.   It requires that not only a faithful mother be able to recognize the benefit of their child growing up in a home where he is sealed to two faithful parents, but also that a man who may not be very mature and surely won't be able to support the family, even if he is also mature to understand that loving means giving a child the home he cannot.   IN ADDITION, it requires that the grandparents be (a) willing to let the young people make that decision and (b) willing to have their grandchild placed in an adoptive home.   Unless the father (and his parents since they are quite likely to say and do such things as if she doesn't want him (as though that is why a mother would so place a child), we'll take him and raise him, insisting the young man agree to them doing so, is fully behind the adoption too, the mother would need to share custody of the child with the father or give the father full custody (and pay child support), which would mean that the father's parents would likely raise the child.     

 

And there are mothers who will tell you that when they pray about placing the child, they feel like they should raise the child themselves.   And almost everyone nowadays knows of someone who adopted through Family Services and afterward divorced or left the church or was excommunicated.   So they know that there is no guarantee that their child will have an intact forever family at all, even when the baby is so placed. with Family Services.  Those same mothers are often aware of the substantial risk of abuse by those they date and stepparents when and if they do marry.  So there are risks in all circumstances (at this point they may be persuaded that intimacy outside of marriage is fraught with very practical and long standing danger, but it is too late to avoid the consequences in the instant case.)

 

Bottom line is that I would hope and be praying hard my child would be very prayerful  and make decisions prompted by inspiration, as Heaven does know what is in the child's best interest.  I would want to help them get the help so that they can make the decision without emotional baggage ("I want someone to love me") that may have been why they ended up in the position in the first place).

 

And I would hope that I would be have the courage to urge that the parents get married if either of them want to raise the child (no matter how long the odds), and to fully support that choice.   Grandparents aren't entitled to inspiration on what the parents choices should be, so I would hope I could help them see the eternity and the blessing that consulting Him and following that inspiration would be, and the courage to trust in their decisions and support whatever decision they made.

[Duncan]

There was and is a Bishop in our stake (he's served before as a Bishop and is serving again) who told a young woman in the ward who got raped (at a school camp thing) and pregnant as a result that if she kept the baby he has the power to take the child away. He has absolutely no authority whatsoever to do this, all he can do is phone someone in Child and Family services to investiagte the situation but so can I. She kept the child and her parents and her are raising the child, I don't really know the family but they live in my parents ward

[Calm]

There was and is a Bishop in our stake (he's served before as a Bishop and is serving again) who told a young woman in the ward who got raped 

Very sad it happening to the young lady.

 

Did you hear this from the Bishop or someone else?

 

Bishops can be jerks...and he may still be a right royal and ignorant jerk, but he may have been misinterpreted in his claim because it seems absolutely clueless....

[Duncan]

Very sad it happening to the young lady.

 

Did you hear this from the Bishop or someone else?

 

Bishops can be jerks...and he may still be a right royal and ignorant jerk, but he may have been misinterpreted in his claim because it seems absolutely clueless....

 

 

i heard it from my Mum and I heard some of it from him and I knew who and what he was talking about. My Mum was their VT. It was announced in Church apparently about situations happening but not who these situations happened to

 

This Bishop is a real piece of work. A few months ago he insulted a sister missionary and told one of the missionaries in my ward what to say in a confirmation blessing, among other things. But it is what it is

[Calm]

Guys like these can be some people's personal Abrahamic Sacrifice...only in these cases the test is not to kill them.

[strappinglad]

You do get the oddest folks running things in your area,Duncan. They must be from ABA(anywhere but Alberta).

[Duncan]

You do get the oddest folks running things in your area,Duncan. They must be from ABA(anywhere but Alberta).

 

 

oh do we ever! my brother and I can count at least 7 brethren who are or have been Bishops twice now!  we seriously need people to move here!!!!

[Stone holm]

Bishop's training is sometimes a bit weak, and sometimes Stake President training is non existent, and sometimes both go rogue. But it is normally the exception. At one point during the "traditional family" campaign Salt Lake was leaning heavily on local leaders to get unwed mothers to give up their unborns. I have had no dealings with family services, unless those are the same people running the marriage counseling services...my encounters with them left a distinct odor of incompetence.

[JAHS]

My daughter went through the LDS social services program regarding being single, teen, and pregnant. They do lean towards encouraging the girl to place the baby up for adoption but still leave the choice up to her about whether she decides to keep the baby or not. She decided to keep the baby, and with support by her parents was eventually able to meet and marry a young man with whom she had other children and the whole family were eventually sealed together in the temple. Think how she would feel now if all of this happened and she had decided to give her first baby up for adoption and that child is now sealed to another family? 

[cdowis]

My personal view == the issue is what is best for the child.  And every child deserves and needs a mother and a father.

[David T]

My wife and I are currently in the process of trying to adopt through LDS Family Services. We have nothing but gratitude and respect for the decision birth mothers make. Our social worker has made very clear that with LDS Family Services, while the needs of the child are certainly the focus, the emotional needs of the birth mothers also have a very important role. Open adoptions are pretty much the standard, with lots of suggestions as to how the new family can appropriately involve the birth mother in the life of the adopted child, if that is what she desires and needs. The birth mother always does select the adopting family.

 

In fact, according to our social worker, they don't like to proceed at all unless it's very, very clear that the birth mother is confident of her decision, and feels good about it. At least from the Family Services Side, there doesn't appear to be unneccesary pressure. From all that I've seen, this very much seems to be the cast in practice, too.

 

Yes, it is the Church's position that if a single mother is not planning on marrying the father (in circumstances where that would be desirable), that adoption through family services is almost always the best option for the child.

 

My wife had her ability to reproduce removed as part of a life-saving surgery to remove a rare form of uterine cancer. We are incredibly grateful for those who choose the incredibly difficult decision to place their child up for adoption for the child's best interests, and don't wish for anyone to feel forced, or feel like the decision isn't their own.

Edited December 26, 2013 by David T

[Stone holm]

My wife and I are currently in the process of trying to adopt through LDS Family Services. We have nothing but gratitude and respect for the decision birth mothers make. Our social worker has made very clear that with LDS Family Services, while the needs of the child are certainly the focus, the emotional needs of the birth mothers also have a very important role. Open adoptions are pretty much the standard, with lots of suggestions as to how the new family can appropriately involve the birth mother in the life of the adopted child, if that is what she desires and needs. The birth mother always does select the adopting family.

 

In fact, according to our social worker, they don't like to proceed at all unless it's very, very clear that the birth mother is confident of her decision, and feels good about it. At least from the Family Services Side, there doesn't appear to be unneccesary pressure. From all that I've seen, this very much seems to be the cast in practice, too.

 

Yes, it is the Church's position that if a single mother is not planning on marrying the father (in circumstances where that would be desirable), that adoption through family services is almost always the best option for the child.

 

My wife had her ability to reproduce removed as part of a life-saving surgery to remove a rare form of uterine cancer. We are incredibly grateful for those who choose the incredibly difficult decision to place their child up for adoption for the child's best interests, and don't wish for anyone to feel forced, or feel like the decision isn't their own.

Glad to hear this was afraid they might have the same competency level as the marriage counselors

[Buzzard]

 

 

Yes, it is the Church's position that if a single mother is not planning on marrying the father (in circumstances where that would be desirable), that adoption through family services is almost always the best option for the child.

 

 

And there is a reason for that. The odds of a good outcome for a child raised by an unwed mother, even with family support, are so long as to almost be anecdotal. Yes, there are the heartwarming stories with happy endings, but among those demographic groups where childbirth before marriage is increasingly rare, the family structure and the economic outlook for the child is almost destroyed. And it's not getting better.  I have even seen young women, who having come to a prayerful and hard decision to adopt out the baby, have their active LDS moms freak out because they are about to be deprived of the joys of being a grandmother. Sheesh. 

[Stone holm]

And there is a reason for that. The odds of a good outcome for a child raised by an unwed mother, even with family support, are so long as to almost be anecdotal. Yes, there are the heartwarming stories with happy endings, but among those demographic groups where childbirth before marriage is increasingly rare, the family structure and the economic outlook for the child is almost destroyed. And it's not getting better.  I have even seen young women, who having come to a prayerful and hard decision to adopt out the baby, have their active LDS moms freak out because they are about to be deprived of the joys of being a grandmother. Sheesh. 

 

I think some grandfathers as well, are uneasy about the idea of having someone with their lineage raised by a complete stranger, I know I would be uncomfortable about it -- but would be reluctant to do anything but support a daughter's decision either way.

[Ahab]

From time to time you will hear some woman explode verbally about the pressure put on her unwed daughter, niece or friend to give up her child for adoption. I believe something about this may have erupted during the Romney campaign. Am not sure of my own feelings, although if believe I would lean away from it for a daughter and would offer to raise the child myself instead. I can understand the policy and the reasoning, it just slightly makes me uncomfortable. Thoughts anyone?

Many people give some very bad advice, including many people who are members of the Church.

 

Instead of people encouraging someone else to give up their child... and that's what we're talking about here, which is pathetic... they should instead be trying to help that person take care of their child including helping that person learn what it means to be a good parent.  And as far as I know, good parents do not give up their own children, or encourage anyone else to give up their own child.

[Ahab]

I think some grandfathers as well, are uneasy about the idea of having someone with their lineage raised by a complete stranger, I know I would be uncomfortable about it -- but would be reluctant to do anything but support a daughter's decision either way.

Seriously?  You would actually encourage or support your own daughter's decision to give up her child, if she chose to do that?

 

Why on Earth would you encourage a decision like that???   Why not instead help her to raise her child, and your grandchild?

[Stone holm]

Seriously?  You would actually encourage or support your own daughter's decision to give up her child, if she chose to do that?

 

Why on Earth would you encourage a decision like that???   Why not instead help her to raise her child, and your grandchild?

 

No I wouldn't, but I would try to support her decision.  I have a step-daughter in the situation and she kept the child.  I supported her in that decision, as did her mother, and we would accept responsibilty for raising the child in a heartbeat if asked -- he is a wonderful child, and though she isn't dazzlingly great in her decision-making abilities -- she is an excellent mother, and has done a great job with the kid who is sweet and kind, and for his age well behaved.  He is on a much better track to become a good adult than many being raised by dual parent families, and certainly better than what I have seen of children being raised by divorced parents.

[Ahab]

No I wouldn't, but I would try to support her decision.  I have a step-daughter in the situation and she kept the child.  I supported her in that decision, as did her mother, and we would accept responsibilty for raising the child in a heartbeat if asked -- he is a wonderful child, and though she isn't dazzlingly great in her decision-making abilities -- she is an excellent mother, and has done a great job with the kid who is sweet and kind, and for his age well behaved.  He is on a much better track to become a good adult than many being raised by dual parent families, and certainly better than what I have seen of children being raised by divorced parents.

If I were in your situation I would let her know that I would in no way support her decision (or anyone else's decision) to give up her own child, and that I would do all that I could to help her raise her child, which would also be my own grandchild.  And in that way that child would have both a mother and a father (even if the father is the grandfather).

 

And if she still chose to give up her child for adoption, anyway, even though I had tried to talk her out of it and flat out told her that I would not support that decision, I would still love her, of course, but I would still not be supportive of that decision, because it would still be and always would be a very bad decision her her to make.  And yes I would be able to forgive her for making that bad decision, but I still would not be in support of that decision, and if she ever had to make a decision involving whether or not to give up her own child, which would also be my own grandchild, I would hope she would have learned from her past mistake and then choose to keep her own child.

 

And I'd also try to keep track of the child she gave up, so I could still be involved in raising that child, which would still be her child, and my grandchild.

[David T]

Many people give some very bad advice, including many people who are members of the Church.

 

Instead of people encouraging someone else to give up their child... and that's what we're talking about here, which is pathetic... they should instead be trying to help that person take care of their child including helping that person learn what it means to be a good parent.  And as far as I know, good parents do not give up their own children, or encourage anyone else to give up their own child.

 

 

And if she still chose to give up her child for adoption, anyway, even though I had tried to talk her out of it and flat out told her that I would not support that decision, I would still love her, of course, but I would still not be supportive of that decision, because it would still be and always would be a very bad decision her her to make.  And yes I would be able to forgive her for making that bad decision, but I still would not be in support of that decision, and if she ever had to make a decision involving whether or not to give up her own child, which would also be my own grandchild, I would hope she would have learned from her past mistake and then choose to keep her own child.

 

And I'd also try to keep track of the child she gave up, so I could still be involved in raising that child, which would still be her child, and my grandchild

 

If a single woman is not emotionally, physically, or otherwise prepared or able to give the child a stable upbringing, placing the needs of the child first is a major act of love, and a sign that they actually do care about the child. As Buzzard noted above, statistics are not in favor of the well being of a child being raised in a single parent home.

 

I'm at a point where blood relationship isn't the keystone of loyalty and family. I feel far more an actual part of my wife's family than I do my own flesh and blood parents. Family in the Gospel is one of Covenant, and an active choice to love and to serve. 

 

To prayerfully consider and accept that an individual is not in a position to give a child the essentials that they need to thrive and to give them the best possible start in life. Statistics are beyond clear that a stable 2-parent household gives a child a vastly greater chance at success in life. A birth mother placing a child for adoption has often realized that circumstances - sometimes their own choice, and sometimes, such as in cases of rape - forced upon them - have made it so their body will deliver a child that they are not in a position to be able to care for and to raise.

 

In many of these cases, certainly not all, it can be a matter of pride to decide to raise the child based on a pure need to show that one can do it - and not a consideration of necessarily looking after the child's best interests. It's one of possession. They fight against the odds for a child's upbringing to prove that THEY can beat the odds. 

 

I don't know if you know or have been associated with any birth mothers (LDS or not) who have placed their child for adoption - especially in an open adoption scenario. I'm not sure if you're basing your outrage on experience of what those who have made that decision have gone through, and the process of thought they have made.

 

It's a devastating choice to have to be in a position to make. I feel devastated for everyone who is placed in that position. And for those that prayerfully consider and decide that they want to place the child for adoption because they know their child will have a better chance for success and happiness than they at that point in their lives have the ability to give, and for those who come to a deep peace concerning that decision --- I have nothing but overwhelming feelings of respect and gratitude.

 

It is essential that such circumstances are extremely complicated, and birth parents - whatever the decision they make - are not judged by us as outsiders to their circumstances, and their pain. There are certainly single parents who have beaten the odds, and raised amazing, well-adjusted and successful children. I wouldn't doubt that for a second.

 

But to call a birth mother who choses a path they truly believe will lead to the child's greater success a 'bad parent' completely does not have any grasp of the extremely sensitive topic at hand.

 

Take a look at the LDS Family Services website on adoption: It's About Love. Lots of good FAQs and videos and testimonials there.

 

In fact, here's a page of Real Life Stories of women who chose to place their child for adoption. Please experience some of these before making any judgments.

Edited December 26, 2013 by David T

[Ahab]

But to call a birth mother who choses a path they truly believe will lead to the child's greater success a 'bad parent' completely does not have any grasp of the extremely sensitive topic at hand.

There's a lot more meaning behind the words "bad parent" than you seem to be realizing.  Like not realizing the value of love, thinking money or status or some other "married" couple can somehow add more meaning to that child's life than the love of their own parent.

 

Sure, we in the Church can do a lot of good for the children their parents have chosen to give up, but it's always, always, always a better choice for that child's own parents to raise that child with the love and devotion and desire each person should have to raise their own child, rather than give that child.

 

Argue on if you wish, though.  If you don't agree with me on this issue I'll still know that I'm on the right side of this issue.

[bluebell]

Many people give some very bad advice, including many people who are members of the Church.

 

Instead of people encouraging someone else to give up their child... and that's what we're talking about here, which is pathetic... they should instead be trying to help that person take care of their child including helping that person learn what it means to be a good parent.  And as far as I know, good parents do not give up their own children, or encourage anyone else to give up their own child.

 

You don't know much then.