Jesus Christ Personal Visits

[Duncan]

I was thinking of this whole Denver Snuffer stuff and it got me to thinking and wondering if Jesus Christ makes personal visits today, as in our time. I know of accounts from the early saints and others have made a variety of claims. I have no idea of these are legitimate but do you think he makes visits today?

[Calm]

Why would there be a change? If people needed personal visitations in the past, surely they must need them and thus receive them now?

[omni]

I was thinking of this whole Denver Snuffer stuff and it got me to thinking and wondering if Jesus Christ makes personal visits today, as in our time. I know of accounts from the early saints and others have made a variety of claims. I have no idea of these are legitimate but do you think he makes visits today?

I remember being taught by my mission president that as special witnesses of Christ all apostles have seen him in the flesh. I know there's some on here who don't believe they have, so why doesn't one of the apostles simply come out and squash this widely held belief/rumor?

[strappinglad]

Some would just appreciate a semi annual visit from their home teachers. If Christ came to visit someone, there would likely be a very good reason and not just to chat about how the day went. Hence, unless specifically told to spread the word, that visit would remain of utmost privacy .

[EllenMaksoud]

Why would there be a change? If people needed personal visitations in the past, surely they must need them and thus receive them now?

 

 

I was thinking of this whole Denver Snuffer stuff and it got me to thinking and wondering if Jesus Christ makes personal visits today, as in our time. I know of accounts from the early saints and others have made a variety of claims. I have no idea of these are legitimate but do you think he makes visits today?

 

Not that I am anything special.  The day I drove through Kirtland, Ohio, I saw a man in white armor, sitting on a white horse, holding a white sword. He pointed at the side of the road and told me to stop ! I don't know who he was. Spiritual visions are available to those who are open, desperate, and in need of it.

[Storm Rider]

The heavens are open today just as much as they were in ages past. This is one of the bedrock principles of the gospel. There are those that are private, sacred experiences and those that are intended for a more public purpose. These experiences are rare and occur when there is need of them. Visions also occur in our day; I suspect these are much more common and there are many that can be read and heard about from many different religious persuasions.

[Glenn101]

Christ is seen by faith, and if ones faith is great enough, Christ cannot withold himself from the view of such an one. Case in point, the brother of Jared.

 

There have been anecotal tales of Christ visiting people. It is not for me to say that they are all just made up stories.

 

Glenn

[Garden Girl]

Not that I am anything special.  The day I drove through Kirtland, Ohio, I saw a man in white armor, sitting on a white horse, holding a white sword. He pointed at the side of the road and told me to stop ! I don't know who he was. Spiritual visions are available to those who are open, desperate, and in need of it.

I'm thinking... did she stop?  I'll leave it to you to decide if you want to elaborate further...

 

GG

[EllenMaksoud]

I'm thinking... did she stop?  I'll leave it to you to decide if you want to elaborate further...

 

GG

I thought I had told this story before. As I approached Kirtland from the South, I saw the man, angel, or ???? in my mind. I am not sure if there was physically anyone there. Yes, I did stop, then walked over to the Temple, but it was locked. Then I walked around to the offices and they were locked. This was around 6:00PM. With no one there, I decided to drive home. I passed what I now know to be the Kirtland Stake, saw cars there and decided to turn in, hoping they could answer some questions about the Temple.  It seemed likely that they would reject me since I was wearing my required Muslim dress, including Hijab. Astonishingly, they were very nice and directed me over to the Kirtland visitor's center. I arrived there very worried that they would throw me out. But something kept driving me and I went into the building. I must have looked like someone pushed me through the door as I entered.

 

"I don't know what I am doing here, but I have questions. As the time progressed, I told them that I knew I could not become Mormon, but I was very interested in Mormon History.

 

You know the rest of the story. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

[D]o you think he makes visits today?

Yes.

 

I remember being taught by my mission president that as special witnesses of Christ all apostles have seen him in the flesh.

What do you mean by the phrase 'in the flesh'?

 

Spiritual visions are available to those who are open, desperate, and in need of it.

Indeed they are.

[Brian 2.0]

I remember being taught by my mission president that as special witnesses of Christ all apostles have seen him in the flesh. I know there's some on here who don't believe they have, so why doesn't one of the apostles simply come out and squash this widely held belief/rumor?

I take this thought the opposite way. My question is why don't the apostles comes out and CONFIRM this rumor if it is indeed happening. If that's part if being a special witnesses, then testify of that special witness.

[Storm Rider]

I take this thought the opposite way. My question is why don't the apostles comes out and CONFIRM this rumor if it is indeed happening. If that's part if being a special witnesses, then testify of that special witness.

 

When you study the NT how often did the early apostles bear the type of testimony that you are talking about?

 

Have you listened to the testimonies of the apostles at conference?

 

If they each stood and bore this type of testimony would it affect your life or the lives of others? 

 

Would the work of the Church go forth any different if the apostles stated this direct statement any more than they already do?

[cdowis]

Special Witness:

 

In speaking of these wondrous things I will use my own words. Though you might think these are the words of scripture, words spoken by other Apostles and Prophets, true it is that they were first proclaimed by others, but they are now mine. For the Holy Spirit of God has born witness to me that they are true and it is now as though the Lord has revealed them to me in the first instance. I have thereby heard his voice and know his word.

.......

 

And as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify tha pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God who was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person. I am one of his Witnesses. And in the coming day I will feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears. But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God's almighty Son and he is our Savior and Redeemer and that Salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.

 

Bruce R McConkie' s last talk.

 

++++++++++++++++

 

A witness of the Spirit is more powerful than a vision or physical presence of the Lord.  (don't have the reference right now)

Edited September 5, 2013 by cdowis

[Storm Rider]

Special Witness:

Bruce R McConkie' s last talk.

++++++++++++++++

 

A witness of the Spirit is more powerful than a vision or physical presence of the Lord.  (don't have the reference right now)

 

McConkie's is the testimony that I also thought of first when I saw this thread. This man grew tremendously as an apostle. Amazing evolution of a man of God.

[Stroopwafel]

I know of accounts from the early saints and others have made a variety of claims. I have no idea of these are legitimate but do you think he makes visits today?

 

That's one thing I'm bothered with: why would the early saint not shy away from declaring that they had angelic visitations and visions, but nowadays, those experience are considered "too sacred" to share, even by those who call themselves special witnesses of Christ?

 

Do we even realize what it would mean for someone to actually see Christ? No more doubt, no more questions; we would know for sure that there is an afterlife and that there is a God! Atheism would go out the window, and though it would not put an end to all form of debate (we are humans after all), we would have definite answers that would cause many to reconsider their position and help us further our knowledge. And if we would get to have a divine chat with the Savior in our times (as in 2013), then O! what would we not learn!

 

I know how some say that even if people had these sorts of visions, even if we had physical evidence, there would still be some not believing and falling away anyways. And for proof, we are usually referred to the story of Laman and Lemuel. Well, maybe I'm naive, but I would rather think that if we did have such evidence, most people would accept and comprehend what all this implies. I'll concede that visions and physical evidence would not by themselves produce the "change of heart" required to follow the teachings of Yeshua. But seriously, there are honest, truth-seeking people out there that, even though they don't believe in God in the moment, would be the first to revise their beliefs if they got this kind of divine evidence.

 

One last thing, I realize this may just be me not understanding God's higher purposes, but I find this amazing how, on the one hand, we have a book which purports to convince "Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations", and on the other, the best way to actually truly convince anyone was taken away by an angel. I understand that people may have been after the gold plates to get rich because, well, XIX century, but it wouldn't be a problem nowadays, right? So why doesn't Moroni show up again with the plates and say "Yo, here are the plates which contain what you call the Book of Mormon, now you'll be better able to convince all these unbelievers."

 

It is as if the Church keeps shying away from producing anything that would further substantiate that it is actually the Church of the restoration of all things in this last dispensation, the Church of Jesus Christ. Where are the further scriptures? Oh yeah, we are too wicked, we are not using what we already have to its full extent, we are not ready, we have the Ensign and General Conference talks (what do you need more?). The special witnesses do not discuss these "too sacred" things, but what is really too sacred here? Christ's appearance? What He is wearing? His hair color? His teachings? Well, if he is teaching them personal things or giving them personal revelations relevant to them only, of course they don't have to share them. But what is "too sacred" in adding the words "for I have seen him" to "I know that the Savior lives"?

 

/reply, /rant

Edited September 5, 2013 by Stroopwafel

[Storm Rider]

Well this is strange, Stroop. You state, "No more doubt, no more questions; we would know for sure that there is an afterlife and that there is a God! Atheism would go out the window, and though it would not put an end to all form of debate (we are humans after all), we would definite answers that would cause many to reconsider their positions and help us further our knowledge." 

 

Exactly how many times does this testimony need to be repeated? Does it need to be done every generation or do you think every year is sufficient to prod us in to faith?  Oops, that this the problem though isn't it. What faith would be required if every year was the great day of the Lord's visitation so that all answers could be put to rest.

 

Alternatively, those apostles could just bear witness of him. What does that look like?  How about this, "I testify that pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God who was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person.  I am one of his Witnesses." If you heard this and had the Spirit bear witness to you that he was a special witness of Jesus Christ, that he knew the Savior personally, would it be enough? Fortunately, that is the testimony of McConkie and I felt that Spirit.

 

For me the truth is that it does not matter what another says about God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Restoration, or anything else. That which has the greatest impact on the heart of man is for a personal encounter with the Spirit. Was not that the purpose of Jesus sending the Second Comforter? Interestingly, Jesus did not say he would create his church with apostles and prophets and the Holy Spirit. He spoke of his divine organization and he also spoke in a different context of the purpose and need of the Holy Spirit. The testimonies of others are good in that they invite the presence of the Spirit to bear witness of truth, but as for you and your testimony, it is the Spirit that is most needed.

[Tacenda]

I get so frustrated at not getting what others have in the receiving a witness.  I wonder if some are delusional, and some just want people to believe in God and will do/say anything that will do the trick.  Why do I not believe anyone has seen Christ?  I've become that rigid in my lack of faith.  Yesterday I hoped for a sign and was desperate enough to want to believe that a fly buzzing around my head, landing on my ear and getting away in time was a sign.  I never was able to kill it, no matter how hard I tried.  Now that is bad, thinking it was a sign of God letting me know he's there.  Makes me wonder if people like me, make it into something it's not.        

[Deborah]

Joseph Smith was reluctant to tell of his visions and usually it was others who did so. He related them at certain times and certain places. Sacred experiences are just that. They are meant to be personal and revealed only when moved on.

 

I often hear this complaint "Well back then, they...." and I'll say what I always say, back then we didn't have immediate publicity for the world to see (and mock) and the saints were basically an isolated community within the larger community. Christ himself told others not to reveal what they have seen and heard until a certain time.

 

If you listen closely you can often hear the testimony of personal visitations from the GA's even though they don't say so in so many words.

[strappinglad]

The platform for mockery is many orders of magnitude greater now than 150 years ago. If you recall the words of Christ to " go and tell no one " , it is possible that , that this time , those who have had this type of visitation are instructed to be circumspect in their communications on the matter. On the other hand, if you make a piece of toast and there seems to be a face on it...

[Questing Beast]

I was thinking of this whole Denver Snuffer stuff and it got me to thinking and wondering if Jesus Christ makes personal visits today, as in our time. I know of accounts from the early saints and others have made a variety of claims. I have no idea of these are legitimate but do you think he makes visits today?

An uncle of my wife's and a close friend of mine have both said in blatant language, "I have seen Jesus Christ as I am seeing you". I said nothing in either case, and they said no more. I was waiting for them to continue, and they were waiting for a reaction, and my silence was a shutdown I guess. I believe both of them believe they have seen JC, but I believe that they both have "seen" a metaphysical dream of such tangible reality that they consider it more than a mere dream, more like a vision. The world of humans is flooded with such experiences, and, imho, they all adhere to our training, education, hopes and expectations....

[The Nehor]

The problem with th argument is that those in the past all shared their witness but they do not today is we do not know how many people in the past got the witness and were told not to say anything.

[Storm Rider]

I get so frustrated at not getting what others have in the receiving a witness.  I wonder if some are delusional, and some just want people to believe in God and will do/say anything that will do the trick.  Why do I not believe anyone has seen Christ?  I've become that rigid in my lack of faith.  Yesterday I hoped for a sign and was desperate enough to want to believe that a fly buzzing around my head, landing on my ear and getting away in time was a sign.  I never was able to kill it, no matter how hard I tried.  Now that is bad, thinking it was a sign of God letting me know he's there.  Makes me wonder if people like me, make it into something it's not.        

 

The only incident or vision that I have prayed about is Joseph's vision in the grove. I don't pray about other testimonies or events that I hear about. I am not sure it is too strange of a position to say no one has seen Jesus....except when we are talking about the prophet Joseph. As a young man I thought each apostle had seen Jesus as a necessary part of their becoming a special witness. As I have gotten older I have concluded that I am open to the apostles and prophets gaining a sure knowledge of Jesus Christ, but I don't think it is all of them. I don't go out of my way to listen specifically to their testimony as a way of gleaning who has and who has not met the Savior. Like you, maybe I have gotten somewhat more calloused with age.

 

If when I hear a testimony and I receive a witness of the Spirit, then I am grateful for that experience, but I don't go farther than that. I have a faith in the Savior that he lives. It is gratifying to find others with the same testimony, but my testimony is not contingent upon their witness. It is more like a bundle of sticks is harder to break than a single twig. Those that love the Savior seem to come together and together we are stronger than we are separately, but each twig remains a twig.

[EllenMaksoud]

When you study the NT how often did the early apostles bear the type of testimony that you are talking about?

 

Have you listened to the testimonies of the apostles at conference?

 

If they each stood and bore this type of testimony would it affect your life or the lives of others? 

 

Would the work of the Church go forth any different if the apostles stated this direct statement any more than they already do?

Maybe having seen The Christ is supposed to be private?

[Buzzard]

I take this thought the opposite way. My question is why don't the apostles comes out and CONFIRM this rumor if it is indeed happening. If that's part if being a special witnesses, then testify of that special witness.

Two points. I was in the Marriott Center as a student when Elder Haight gave a devotional. He bore witness of the Savior, then said "Someday, if I am not constrained by the spirit, I may be able to tell you more." So it seems like whatever happens, the apostles can only share so much, at least in public.

Also, I recently read the account written by Spencer Kimball's son about the process and revelation concerning the priesthood in 1978. One of the apostles who was there (con't remember who off the top of my head) commented that "I have had many spiritual experiences, notably concerning my call to the apostleship, but none as powerful as this experience". Since several people who were there have said there was no physical manifestation, it follows that a powerful testimony of the spirit leaves even more of an impression than a physical visitation, assuming that is what comes with being an apostle. 

[rchorse]

The prophets and apostles tell us this stuff all the time. Here's one recent example.

 

Elder Eyring:

I am a witness of the Resurrection of the Lord as surely as if I had been there in the evening with the two disciples in the house on Emmaus road. I know that He lives as surely as did Joseph Smith when he saw the Father and the Son in the light of a brilliant morning in a grove of trees in Palmyra.

 

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/come-unto-me?lang=eng

 

That seems pretty clear to me.