Bernard Gui Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Scientists report the possible finding of a piece of the cross of Jesus:http://www.livescience.com/38615-archaeologists-find-relic-of-jesus-cross.htmlWhy is this important?
LordUther Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Let's be honest here the odds are that the cross Christ was crucified on was probably reused to execute someone else, or chopped up for firewood or whatever else the Romans did with their used crosses. Christ's loved ones would've been to wrapped up in grief and concerned about getting him buried before the sabbath started to be worried about salvaging the means of his execution. Also it's hardly the normal reaction of someone who's just seen their loved one killed to want a piece of the tool used to kill them. High probability of this being a fake, and even if it isn't it means absolutely nothing except as an archeological piece, not that you could ever prove it sufficiently to be genuine. 1
Popular Post halconero Posted August 2, 2013 Popular Post Posted August 2, 2013 It belongs in a museum! 5
Bob Crockett Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Can't be. St. Helena found it. She beat everybody else to it.
The Nehor Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Replace "scientists" with "quacks with degrees" and the article headline is more accurate.
Freedom Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I just started a post on this topic called What I hate about religion.
Garden Girl Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) It belongs in a museum!IF it can be authenticated... big IF...How would anyone even know?GG Edited August 2, 2013 by Garden Girl
thesometimesaint Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 GG:They wouldn't. The best they could do with today's technology is determine if the wood was around 2000 years old. We don't know what the type of wood was used, if it were used before Jesus' crucifiction, or after for that, or some other purpose. Even if it could be shown to have been used on Jesus. That in no way it confirms that he was the Son of God, or that he was Resurrected.
bluebell Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 IF it can be authenticated... big IF...How would anyone even know?GGGood question, and one that always makes me doubt these kinds of claims.P.S. I think Halconero was quoting a line from Indiana Jones.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Replace "scientists" with "quacks with degrees" and the article headline is more accurate.Isnt that generally what most of them are? 1
mfbukowski Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 IF it can be authenticated... big IF...How would anyone even know?GGWell since God is in everything,and everything is part of God, and since Jesus is God's son, his DNA must be in everything. So if the wood has any DNA at all, it must be God's DNA, so it must be authentic!See? Easy as pie! 1
thesometimesaint Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 No. Quackery generally decreases with education. Unfortunately it is no guarantee.
The Nehor Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 No. Quackery generally decreases with education. Unfortunately it is no guarantee.It has been my observation that quackery within a field is inversely proportional to the employability of persons in that field.
3DOP Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 The belief in the value of relics, items that have been touched by a saint find their root in the miracles that were wrought by God through the medium of pieces of linen touched by St. Paul. And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles. So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the wicked spirits went out of them.---Ac 19:11, 12You don't have to be Catholic to treasure things because they belonged to a loved one who has gone before us. It is a natural sentiment. But when added to that the loved one inspires us to acts of goodness and love, a moderate, suitable attachment to a physical reminder (a relic) of the one we admire was a source of uncommon miracles in Acts 19. More common miracles would probably be spiritual in nature. A verified sliver of the Holy Cross on which Our Saviour died could not be of less value than an apron or handkerchief used to heal diseases. I would be compelled to kneel and kiss such blessed wood. 1
ERayR Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Scientists report the possible finding of a piece of the cross of Jesus:http://www.livescien...esus-cross.htmlWhy is this important?How could they know?
halconero Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) How could they know?They'll verify it one way or another. Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Questing Beast's philosophy thread is right down the forum. Edited August 2, 2013 by halconero
ERMD Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 It has been my observation that quackery within a field is inversely proportional to the employability of persons in that field.I have some "Inverse Proportion Rules of Emergency Medicine"The number of complaints is inversely proportional to the severity of the illness.The survivability of major trauma is inversely proportional to the societal worth of the patient.
Calm Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I am wondering if the Jewish culture of that time would have been inclined to see the cross as something worth saving or destroying, considering how it was an instrument of death and there might have been purity issues?
halconero Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I am wondering if the Jewish culture of that time would have been inclined to see the cross as something worth saving or destroying, considering how it was an instrument of death and there might have been purity issues?My guess is no. I believe the majority of Jewish executions were performed using the incredibly common and disposible stone, something you can just leave, rather than a semi-permanent device like the crucifix. I may be wrong on this though.
Calm Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 My guess is no. I believe the majority of Jewish executions were performed using the incredibly common and disposible stone, something you can just leave, rather than a semi-permanent device like the crucifix. I may be wrong on this though.So they wouldn't see it as something unique or significant or personal to the person executed on it, but just an effective tool? There would be no reason to think of using it as a relic or a souvenir/memorial of their experience. Would Jews of the time have the culture to collect relics?There appeared to have been very few of his followers at his actual crucifixion and the realization that this crucifixion was something special did not come for several days until he appeared to them AND it seems to me there was quite a bit of time needed to process it. By which time the cross would have been disassembled, taken back to where they stored them and made ready for another and may already have been used (remember he had to carry the crosspiece on his back which is why I am thinking they removed them from the execution site..at least part of them to keep them handy). Unless there was some tradition of keeping a cross as a memorial to the slain...and if these individuals were seen as the equivalent of terrorists or bandits or committing treason against the state, one doubts that the Romans would have allowed them to be taken to so that they could become signs of martyrs. Once the cross was taken apart, even if the upright piece was left in place, how would one tell the difference between Christ's cross and those that were executed with him?
Calm Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Would someone remind me again why the Jewish establishment just couldn't stone him for blasphemy or something and instead had to rely on the Romans to execute him? I am tired and can't think...or sleep and don't want to google.
volgadon Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Would someone remind me again why the Jewish establishment just couldn't stone him for blasphemy or something and instead had to rely on the Romans to execute him? I am tired and can't think...or sleep and don't want to google.They weren't allowed to carry out the death penalty officially. 2
Storm Rider Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 The belief in the value of relics, items that have been touched by a saint find their root in the miracles that were wrought by God through the medium of pieces of linen touched by St. Paul.---Ac 19:11, 12You don't have to be Catholic to treasure things because they belonged to a loved one who has gone before us. It is a natural sentiment. But when added to that the loved one inspires us to acts of goodness and love, a moderate, suitable attachment to a physical reminder (a relic) of the one we admire was a source of uncommon miracles in Acts 19. More common miracles would probably be spiritual in nature. A verified sliver of the Holy Cross on which Our Saviour died could not be of less value than an apron or handkerchief used to heal diseases. I would be compelled to kneel and kiss such blessed wood.I am not positive that the comments are against relics in general, but more focused on the reality of the finding a piece of the true cross and any ability to identify a piece of wood could be actually belong to that cross. LDS don't exactly have a heritage of valuing relics in any formal sense, but I also don't think we go out of our way to denigrate the possibility of value for a relic. I think we have a modern day mindset when it comes to some relics when the relic is a piece of bone from a saint. I think it would be more easy for us to find value in pieces of clothing or instruments that saints or Saints had used.
Calm Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 They weren't allowed to carry out the death penalty officially.That's what I thought and then I remembered the story of the woman taken in adultery and Stephen's death...were those just events the Romans would look away from, twiddling their thumbs and not so mildly swearing under their breaths about 'how am I going to explain it to the Captain?"
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