Mormon Women And A Challenge To Lds Modesty Norms

[The Grimace]

Hello,

I've come across a photography project called 'Mormon Women Bare'. It is to be presented at Sunstone this year, and involves women who identify as Latter-day Saints posing sans clothing, in a challenge to LDS modesty norms.

I won't post the link here, as it is against board rules and is NSFW and NSF minors. What I'm hoping for is a discussion regarding how appropriate this type of activism is and if it has gone too far.

Thanks,

Grimace

[CV75]

What I'm hoping for is a discussion regarding how appropriate this type of activism is and if it has gone too far.

What do you mean by "this type of activism"?

[cinepro]

Sounds like a bad idea to me. Whatever "message" they are trying to send, the people that need to hear it the most are also the most likely to ignore or reject this avenue of "communication."

[The Grimace]

What do you mean by "this type of activism"?

Each woman that was photographed without clothing provides a reason why she was photographed nude; each explanation carries a thread of oppression and body shame that they feel was inflicted by the LDS Church's teachings. Hence, they are choosing a radical action to reclaim their bodies from the Church.

H.

[jwhitlock]

Each woman that was photographed without clothing provides a reason why she was photographed nude; each explanation carries a thread of oppression and body shame that they feel was inflicted by the LDS Church's teachings. Hence, they are choosing a radical action to reclaim their bodies from the Church.

H.

I assume you're quoting from the site; sounds like a textbook example of weasel-speak. Nowadays anyone can claim some kind of "oppression" as an excuse for what they're doing.

[Calm]

Each woman that was photographed without clothing provides a reason why she was photographed nude; each explanation carries a thread of oppression and body shame that they feel was inflicted by the LDS Church's teachings. Hence, they are choosing a radical action to reclaim their bodies from the Church.

H.

making one's body public property (in the visual sense) is reclaiming one's body from the Church?

Don't really get the reasoning there.

[ALarson]

If this helps them feel better about themselves, I won't criticize or judge them. But, I do wonder about the wisdom of posting nude pictures online when you can identify the person who's being photographed (a few didn't show their faces and I think that might be wise just for safety reasons). I showed them to my wife and these were her first thoughts as well.

[Calm]

If this helps them feel better about themselves, I won't criticize or judge them. But, I do wonder about the wisdom of posting nude pictures online when you can identify the person who's being photographed (a few didn't show their faces and I think that might be wise just for safety reasons). I showed them to my wife and these were her first thoughts as well.

Even without the faces though, people can do whatever they want with the pictures including what porn is often used for....

I can see having nude pictures taken and kept for personal reasons...it's the public display that seems counterintuitive to the idea of owning one's own body that surprises me. And unfortunately seems to me is just exchanging one culture's hang ups for another's

Edited July 27, 2013 by calmoriah

[rpn]

It is truly ironic that they are choosing nudity to "reclaim" their bodies ---- it's like they don't have a a clue what is likely to happen to those photos and to those exposed to them.

[CV75]

Each woman that was photographed without clothing provides a reason why she was photographed nude; each explanation carries a thread of oppression and body shame that they feel was inflicted by the LDS Church's teachings. Hence, they are choosing a radical action to reclaim their bodies from the Church.

H.

Despite their reasons or message (which may or may not be--or appear to be--authentic to the participants or the spectators), how is being photographed nude so radical? if they view this a drastic measure, or intend it to come across as a drastic measure, their choice says more about them than the Church, and that their own personal, parochial values have not changed that much. Drastic acts are signs of unresolved internal oppression and shame, and the acts themselves typically detract from the supposed message. The so-called "radicals" are just finding a safe place and means to act out their worst fears / surrogate their negative prophecies.

[Calm]

It is unfortunate in my view that they have exchanged one form of objectification for another. To see what I am talking about and how perhaps they should have approach empowerment as they say, do a goggle for "the sexy lie" YouTube vid of a TED presentation.

PS: I did not find this on my own, but was directed to it by a friend in another modesty discussion on how we should teach it.

Edited July 28, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

This is a good blog on the subject of modesty...and it provides a link to the video I suggested above:

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2013/06/reconciling-modesty-with-feminism/

[The Grimace]

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I see their point. On the other hand, nude pics on the interwebs is probably not such a great idea.

[halconero]

Reclaim their body only to turn it over to the public.

[BlueDreams]

I found their pictures mostly tactful nudes of real bodies that ranged aesthetically and were not in positions most would find sexually appealing (for example, with twin infants). I'm not a dude though, so what do I know on that count? But I figure if one can be painted/sculpted/drawn nude, a photograph is not much different. It's their stories that I struggled with a number to read. Some had points I could see as things I would want my own children to avoid and that I find problematic in lds culture when discussing modesty. Others I couldn't relate to at all. Others I firmly disagreed with. Overall the show made me more sad for the descriptions of the women and their changing image both religiously and physically that were often....just...distorted, I think, would be the right words. And frankly, more complex than the stories immediately show. To me, it wasn't simply a matter of culture/doctrine rubbing against growing understanding of sexuality and body image. It was more indicative of personal experience, insecurities, etc and how these women linked it to the culture, doctrine, and reactions from other members.

As for reclaiming bodies....after reading a number the profiles, If i had to take a guess at least a few would indicate using their bodies as they see fit. Allowing themselves to be master of their own image as opposed to church, conservative cultural dictations, social pressures, etc having word. How well it succeeds is another story. But it's more of normalizing something that we keep as taboo: basic nudity. Not sexual nudity (ain't very taboo) but normative bodies, just as they are.

From the website's about page:

"Women around the world deal with objectification, body shame, and the burden of the male gaze. Mormon women have an added layer of complexity and heavy expectations: while being warned against becoming “walking pornography,” we also face immense pressure to be attractive and fit. We must both attract and protect against male desire. Even though Mormonism teaches us our destiny is to become like our embodied Heavenly Parents, the hyper-focus on modesty leaves many of us feeling disconnected and ambivalent about our bodies. Our sense of self can feel so eclipsed by the expectation to be a wife and mother that we no longer see our bodies as our own. Separated from our skin by layers of clothing, many Mormon women lose touch with the capabilities and power we innately possess. Mormon Women Bare seeks to empower women to reclaim our bodies. Through photography and personal narratives, women are seen as beautiful, flawed, vulnerable and real. Women of different shapes, sizes, and ages demonstrate that bodies need not bring shame but can be owned, celebrated, and honored."

With luv,

BD

Edited July 28, 2013 by BlueDreams

[strappinglad]

At least when the Doukhobors protested nude , they had a legit complaint. The Sons of Freedom took it very seriously. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doukhobor

[MorningStar]

Oh brother!!!!

[Stone holm]

I doubt this was the right approach, but the obsession with sexual morality and gender stereotyping tends towards objectifying women, and some LDS women are getting tired of it. As a result we are likely to see more protest, not less until there is some cultural changes in the Church. Welcome to the 21st Century.

[bluebell]

I don't get it.

Is this one of those instances where someone tries to prove how independent they are by just doing the exact opposite of what they've been told to do, regardless of whether or not they would actually want to do it if they weren't trying to make a point?

Or have these women always wanted to put naked pictures of themselves on the Internet and this protest gave them justification to do something that otherwise wouldn't be justifiable for a mormon woman to do?

[MorningStar]

"I have low self-esteem and it's someone else's fault, so I'm going to fix that by degrading myself."

[Traela]

If they have received their endowment, I'm pretty sure this counts as breaking their temple covenants.

[Sleeper Cell]

From the website's about page:

"Women around the world deal with objectification, body shame, and the burden of the male gaze. Mormon women have an added layer of complexity and heavy expectations: while being warned against becoming “walking pornography,” we also face immense pressure to be attractive and fit. We must both attract and protect against male desire. Even though Mormonism teaches us our destiny is to become like our embodied Heavenly Parents, the hyper-focus on modesty leaves many of us feeling disconnected and ambivalent about our bodies. Our sense of self can feel so eclipsed by the expectation to be a wife and mother that we no longer see our bodies as our own. Separated from our skin by layers of clothing, many Mormon women lose touch with the capabilities and power we innately possess. Mormon Women Bare seeks to empower women to reclaim our bodies. Through photography and personal narratives, women are seen as beautiful, flawed, vulnerable and real. Women of different shapes, sizes, and ages demonstrate that bodies need not bring shame but can be owned, celebrated, and honored."

Bodies, per se, should not bring shame. Some actions should bring shame. For example, a highly intelligent person trying to justify doing something idiotic.

[EllenMaksoud]

Hello,

I've come across a photography project called 'Mormon Women Bare'. It is to be presented at Sunstone this year, and involves women who identify as Latter-day Saints posing sans clothing, in a challenge to LDS modesty norms.

I won't post the link here, as it is against board rules and is NSFW and NSF minors. What I'm hoping for is a discussion regarding how appropriate this type of activism is and if it has gone too far.

Thanks,

Grimace

I have always felt that Mormon women should observe Hijab as I was when I started with the chuch.

[Garden Girl]

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I see their point. On the other hand, nude pics on the interwebs is probably not such a great idea.

This makes their point?? And you see it? Rather sad if you ask me... I see nothing radical, shaming or oppressive about the LDS teachings on modesty... certainly not that these standards are "inflicted" against Mormon women. This action of posing nude just shows they really don't have a clue...

From the beginning, God made coats of skins and clothed Adam and Eve... the Apostle Paul counseled women to adorn themselves in modest apparel... and asked the people Know Ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost? I wonder if the Holy Ghost appreciates the women posing nude or if he flees from them...

In Proverbs the question is asked... Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies... these women being photographed nude... what statement are they making about themselves...

Clueless....

GG

[jim_mason]

Hello,

I've come across a photography project called 'Mormon Women Bare'. It is to be presented at Sunstone this year, and involves women who identify as Latter-day Saints posing sans clothing, in a challenge to LDS modesty norms.

I won't post the link here, as it is against board rules and is NSFW and NSF minors. What I'm hoping for is a discussion regarding how appropriate this type of activism is and if it has gone too far.

Thanks,

Grimace

Isn't being ashamed of our bodies of the devil?