Thinking Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Recently my wife's parents were visiting and part of the conversation was about a friend who was trying to persuade a young man to serve a mission. The young man wasn't sold on serving because he didn't feel his testimony was strong enough. The friend told the young man that if the only convert he was responsible for was himself then his mission would be a success.In 2009, MTC President Gordon D. Brown told a group of new missionaries, "The most important thing to do is develop your own testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You are the most important convert of your mission."Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?
Storm Rider Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 There are different layers to conversion; it is not a single event, but a lifelong pursuit for an even closer relationship with the Savior. An individual must have a desire to serve, be worthy of the call, and his degree of conversion will evolve with time, prayer, study, and contemplation. 4
Popular Post Sky Posted May 22, 2013 Popular Post Posted May 22, 2013 Conversion can be a lifetime process, and nobody is perfect. A great deal of growth and spiritual development comes to anybody who serves a mission. That said, I think it is important to have a testimony of the basics before going out - a testimony of Christ and the Atonement, the role of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, and of living prophets today. That doesn't mean that you have to have a perfect understanding - just that you have a foundation of the basic tenants. It's hard to preach something if you are not converted to it on at least some level. 6
Duncan Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) I was thinking about this the other day. If you would have asked me back when I was going out if I had or even had sought to know if Jesus was the Christ I would have said no. I can honestly say I didn't really focus on Christ during my mission or get a spiritual witness of him until afterwards. I didn't lie when they asked me the recommend questions I guess then I just never thought much or even knew much about Christ and his mission. I guess I figured do you believe in Christ and yeah i believe but like..., what's his bucket, Amulek! I knew but didn't know. So I guess for me at least my mission vaulted me forward to getting a testimony of Christ and heck I am still learning. I had spiritual experiences on my mission for sure, for sure I did but Jesus wasn't a topic or a person I came to know, sad but true.I had a powerful spiritual experience regarding Joseph Smith and one about God but not concernng Jesus. Edited May 22, 2013 by Duncan 2
The Nehor Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 He should not serve a mission until he gets a testimony, the whole point of raising the bar and several recent conference talks is we no longer have the time to convert missionaries. As an ex-companion of some non-converted missionaries I hated it and it slows you down, faithful service will strengthen a testimony but going out without one planning to get one when you get there is infair to yourself, your companions, your investigators, and to God. There are plenty of ways to get a testimony at home. If you cannot do it there what magic is there on a mission that will make it come? 3
ERayR Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 He should not serve a mission until he gets a testimony, the whole point of raising the bar and several recent conference talks is we no longer have the time to convert missionaries. As an ex-companion of some non-converted missionaries I hated it and it slows you down, faithful service will strengthen a testimony but going out without one planning to get one when you get there is infair to yourself, your companions, your investigators, and to God. There are plenty of ways to get a testimony at home. If you cannot do it there what magic is there on a mission that will make it come?As has stated above a testimony is not a one time full blown thing. Any testimony a young person has before his mission is only a seed for what it can become. Obviously the stronger the testimony is now the more opportunity it has to sprout into a full blown tree during his /her mission and on. For those who have had companions whose testimonies were shallow and poorly developed and have "hated" it are themselves in need of development. Was your mission objectives to save souls or produce statistics? If it was to save souls then your companion, with the weak testimony, certainly qualifies. The one thing that can make a mission a better testimony builder is the full time commitment to it and the possibility of help from a more committed companion.
The Nehor Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 As has stated above a testimony is not a one time full blown thing. Any testimony a young person has before his mission is only a seed for what it can become. Obviously the stronger the testimony is now the more opportunity it has to sprout into a full blown tree during his /her mission and on. For those who have had companions whose testimonies were shallow and poorly developed and have "hated" it are themselves in need of development. Was your mission objectives to save souls or produce statistics? If it was to save souls then your companion, with the weak testimony, certainly qualifies. The one thing that can make a mission a better testimony builder is the full time commitment to it and the possibility of help from a more committed companion.My objective was to save souls. When a weak companion impedes the process they are a liability. My companion did need saving but that was nit my objective nor should it be. If your testimony is nonexistent or so weak that you are not an asset to the mission you should stay home until that is corrected. We do not call inactive or faithless members to be bishops in the hopes that their counselors can sort them out because it is dangerous to the ward. Faithless missionaries are equally dangerous to investigators.Of course there are variations in the strength of testimonies and you do not need a perfect one to serve a mission. You do need to have one and one sufficient to impel you to work long hours that will often be frustrating and difficult. I have seen good capable missionaries reduced to tears of frustration that they are babysitting instead of serving because Elder Jackass was sent out by his parents and a lenient Bishop in the hopes that a mission will sort him out. It is not fair to Elder Jackass and it is not fair to those who end up having to serve with him. 2
rpn Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 My dh, a convert of a little over a year, says he didn't get his testimony of Joseph Smith until the MTC. He knew he was supposed to serve a mission. He knew earlier he needed to be baptised. But he got his testimony in pieces. I think the adults should back off (because that is what adults were told to do when the bar was raised, leaving any encouragement to priesthood leaders). And I think the young man should decide whether he is committed to the Lord, and gospel principles enough to decide to go, and then ask for guidance about whether he is ready, or not to do so. The answer to the question depends on what you mean is a testimony. 2
CV75 Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?Yes and yes, and more than that; it isn’t an either/or proposition.While the missionary is the most important convert of his mission (i.e. as a person first takes responsibility for his own spiritual life and becomes converted, he then becomes more converted by helping others convert in the right way), many other reasons for going on a mission are revealed as he becomes more converted.In any case, the purpose for both serving and converting has to be pursued in good faith. Edited May 22, 2013 by CV75
Ahab Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Recently my wife's parents were visiting and part of the conversation was about a friend who was trying to persuade a young man to serve a mission. The young man wasn't sold on serving because he didn't feel his testimony was strong enough. The friend told the young man that if the only convert he was responsible for was himself then his mission would be a success.In 2009, MTC President Gordon D. Brown told a group of new missionaries, "The most important thing to do is develop your own testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You are the most important convert of your mission."Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?The apostles Jesus chose didn't wait until they were converted. Just start following him and accept what he offers.
why me Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Recently my wife's parents were visiting and part of the conversation was about a friend who was trying to persuade a young man to serve a mission. The young man wasn't sold on serving because he didn't feel his testimony was strong enough. The friend told the young man that if the only convert he was responsible for was himself then his mission would be a success.In 2009, MTC President Gordon D. Brown told a group of new missionaries, "The most important thing to do is develop your own testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You are the most important convert of your mission."Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?It could lead to disaster. However, if one has the desire to go on a mission and one doesn't have a complete testimony, then one should go. However, if one does not have a desire to go on a mission, one should not go on a mission to gain a testimony. This could lead to a break an emotional breakdown and unhappiness. Edited May 22, 2013 by why me
The Nehor Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 The apostles Jesus chose didn't wait until they were converted. Just start following him and accept what he offers.A missionary who has no testimony and no faith is not following Him or accepting what He offers.
Ahab Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 A missionary who has no testimony and no faith is not following Him or accepting what He offers.A testimony from God is what gives someone all the faith that is needed, so you're sounding a bit redundant. And we can also apply the essence of what you're saying to a regular person whether or not he or she is a missionary, so what we have then is this:A person without a testimony from God is not following Him or accepting what He offers.I agree with that sentiment. Just start following him and accept what he offers. We don't need to wait until we are converted.
Kenngo1969 Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I think that more often than one might suspect, being converted and knowing one has been converted are two different things. For example, see Doctrine & Covenants 6:22-23 and 3 Nephi 9:20. 1
The Nehor Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 A testimony from God is what gives someone all the faith that is needed, so you're sounding a bit redundant. And we can also apply the essence of what you're saying to a regular person whether or not he or she is a missionary, so what we have then is this:A person without a testimony from God is not following Him or accepting what He offers.I agree with that sentiment. Just start following him and accept what he offers. We don't need to wait until we are converted.I do not disagree but the topic was missionaries. I was saying that if someone is not following the Savior and accepting Him they should not go on a mission in the hopes that a mission will fix the problem. More importantly they should not go because of parental of Priesthood Leader pressure hoping it will happen or because dad said he'd buy you a car if you go or because you want to impress girls in two years.
Damien the Leper Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 This is a difficult question. There isn't a simple answer either way. I don't know that I have anything more to offer to this thread than that.
thesometimesaint Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Recently my wife's parents were visiting and part of the conversation was about a friend who was trying to persuade a young man to serve a mission. The young man wasn't sold on serving because he didn't feel his testimony was strong enough. The friend told the young man that if the only convert he was responsible for was himself then his mission would be a success.In 2009, MTC President Gordon D. Brown told a group of new missionaries, "The most important thing to do is develop your own testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You are the most important convert of your mission."Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?It was Christ that said to the Apostles "When thou art converted. Strengthen thy brethren". It is a lifetime work; 42 years ago I was baptized a Christian. I'm still working on becoming a Saint. 2
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Recently my wife's parents were visiting and part of the conversation was about a friend who was trying to persuade a young man to serve a mission. The young man wasn't sold on serving because he didn't feel his testimony was strong enough. The friend told the young man that if the only convert he was responsible for was himself then his mission would be a success.In 2009, MTC President Gordon D. Brown told a group of new missionaries, "The most important thing to do is develop your own testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ. You are the most important convert of your mission."Should a young man (or woman) go on a mission to become converted, or should he become converted to go on a mission?I know of no better way than to lose your life in the service of others.
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