What Is Utah Culture And What Is Church Culture?

[mfbukowski]

ERay may be a tree hugger, but I am a member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.

[ERayR]

Oh yeah- I forgot to mention this earlier.

That's illegal here. No wood stoves/ fireplaces because of air pollution.

They give condoms to junior high kids, there are drugs all over, but you can't use your fireplace.

Now if that doesn't make sense, you are just not cool I guess.

Tis indeed a strange place where you live but it seems to be contagious as it is spreading.

[ERayR]

ERay may be a tree hugger, but I am a member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals.

A common occurrence in my area too.

[Calm]

That is itself a Utah thing.

For the most part, but it occurred up in Alberta, Canada as well.

[Damien the Leper]

Utah culture, Des News, et al are what is wrong with Mormons. Church culture is precisely not that. Simple, really.

[Ahab]

Utah culture, Des News, et al are what is wrong with Mormons. Church culture is precisely not that. Simple, really.

There is some truth to that, I think. Not much, but some. Depends on which culture in Utah you're talking about, I think.

[Scott Lloyd]

Utah culture, Des News, et al are what is wrong with Mormons. Church culture is precisely not that. Simple, really.

Still talking gibberish, I see.

I hereby take back the rep point I gave you earlier today.

Can't do that, you say? I'll give you a negative credit: Next time you deserve one, I'll withhold it. And I'll say so.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

There is some truth to that, I think. Not much, but some. Depends on which culture in Utah you're talking about, I think.

He said it to get a rise out of me. (Quite obvious with the Deseret News reference.)

And, of course, I obliged.

[Ahab]

He said it to get a rise out of me. (Quite obvious with the Deseret News reference.)

And, of course, I obliged.

You're always so obliging, Scott. How about giving me that rep point that you won't be giving to him.

[Damien the Leper]

Still talking gibberish, I see.

I hereby take back the rep point I gave you earlier today.

Can't do that, you say? I'll give you a negative credit: Next time you deserve one, I'll withhold it. And I'll say so.

The post had nothing to do with you. Nice try at playing victim. Get over it.

Unlike other ignoramuses, I know that you don't represent des news as a whole.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Valentinus

[Bernard Gui]

I think "Utah culture" is getting harder to define. I was born in Hawai'i, but I grew up and am now raising my children in Utah. The place is changing, particularly along the Wasatch Front. It is no longer insular. It's not as "Mormon heavy" as I perceived it to be growing up.

If I was to attempt to define "Utah (Mormon) culture," I suppose I would identify a few if its more salient characteristics (in no particular order):

1. Utah is the headquarters of the Church, and everyplace else (except, perhaps, southern Idaho) is "the mission field." This drives my mother-in-law, who lives in Washington State, a little batty. So much so that it has become an ongoing joke between us. When she visits us at our home in Provo, I welcome her to "the bosom of Abraham" and ask her how things are going in "Babylon." At the end of our visits, I invite her and my FIL to come back any time, and I also absent-mindedly hum/sing a few bars of "Israel, Israel, God is Calling" (the part about "Come to Zion, Come to Zion") It's all good fun.

2. If a person is decently kempt, clothed and well-spoken (no cussin!), there is an assumption that he/she is probably a Mormon.

3. An assumption that a young black man on a college campus is probably there on an athletic scholarship.

4. Unexplained "in-house" cultural references to Mormonism are fine in public. Things like referring to President Monson as "the Prophet," or else using phrases like "Our FHE last night was a lot of fun" or "I was not able to make it to Institute last night" or "He just graduated from seminary" or "The stake dance last week was lame" and so on.

5. Minced oaths (flippin', fetchin', frickin' and the like). Having the appearance of swearing, but lacking the power thereof.

6. Sunday is for church and sleeping (and the Super Bowl, but not for football generally). It is also okay for extended family "get togethers" (which are not parties, because ... they're not), but get-togethers with friends would be more reserved, like dinner, but no more.

7. Clothing styles are affected. Longer shorts for both men and women, less sleeveless and "revealing" stuff for women.

8. "Unconventional" expressions of style (unusual hairstyles, piercings, tattoos, etc.) are less common than in other places.

9. Social gatherings are less likely to center on, or even involve at all, alcohol. This is perhaps one of the most significant differentiators.

10. Businesses openly cater to Mormons. So you'll have Marie Osmond having a book signing as the Orem Costco. Or you'll have radio spots about Elder So-and-So's latest book. My mother-in-law marvels at all of the food storage options that are readily available in most grocery stores in Utah.

11. Larger-than-average number of kids per family, and social customs and pasttimes that tend to revolve more around children. Mini-vans. Soccer moms. Sold-out showings of Pixar movies. Lots of bedroom communities filled with young families.

12. The old-fashioned idea of family life (husband works, wife keeps the home fires burning) is more common than elsewhere.

13. More people get married earlier and have children sooner as compared to other places.

This is an outstanding list! Many of these things are what endears Utah to me.

I add:

14. Wide streets with water running in the gutters.

15. Searching for a shade tree in the parking lot or along the street.

16. Taking your irrigation turn at 2am.

17. Even if you don't live on a farm, having a little plot of ground you can scratch with a stick and call it your farm.

18. Dislike for Californians, at least when I lived there.

19. The only true mountains are Utah mountains.

20. "Real man" temple sessions at 5am.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Unlike other ignoramuses, I know that you don't represent des news as a whole.

Are you sure this is what you wanted to say?

[Damien the Leper]

Are you sure this is what you wanted to say?

I don't believe Scott represents the media, generally or specifically, by any means. My issues with the media, NY Times, DN, SLT, AZ Rep, Boston Globe, etc...it doesn't matter. They are all controlled by propaganda and an agenda. No media outlet is an innocent victim and I refuse to treat any as such.

[Kenngo1969]

I met my future wife at an Institute class at a local college. Here in the capital of Sodom and Gomorrah, southern California.

I tried my best to stave off the Fire and Brimstone! ("Elder Emeritus" Ken, California-San Diego Mission, November 1988-November 1990 ...) Whaddaya want?!

[Kenngo1969]

Still talking gibberish, I see.

I hereby take back the rep point I gave you earlier today.

Can't do that, you say? I'll give you a negative credit: Next time you deserve one, I'll withhold it. And I'll say so.

In order to punish him and put him "in the hole," you'd actually have to withhold two rep points, since you've already given him one you feel he does not deserve. Withholding one only puts him back to status quo ante. So make sure you don't give him one on the next two occasions you feel he deserves one! Just sayin'!

[Scott Lloyd]

The post had nothing to do with you. Nice try at playing victim. Get over it.

Unlike other ignoramuses, I know that you don't represent des news as a whole.

Do you mean that you are "unlike other ignoramuses" or that I am "unlike other ignoramuses"? (I think that's what Bernard Gui was getting at.)

[Scott Lloyd]

In order to punish him and put him "in the hole," you'd actually have to withhold two rep points, since you've already given him one you feel he does not deserve. Withholding one only puts him back to status quo ante. So make sure you don't give him one on the next two occasions you feel he deserves one! Just sayin'!

Ah, but, you see, he did deserve the one I gave him yesterday. I can't invalidate it now. So I will even the account by withholding a rep point from him next time he deserves one. That way his net increase will be only one Scott Lloyd-awarded rep point for two rep point-worthy posts. If he is to be pushed into the hole, he will have to do that himself with future behavior.

Which, at the rate he's going, may not be long. Valentinus says his comment has nothing to do with me. I'm a born and bred Utahn and a current resident with cultural roots extending back to the Beehive State's pioneer era. And I'm a 27-year Deseret News veteran with intense company loyalty. He would have had to work studiously to find a way to insult me more thoroughly.

[Damien the Leper]

Do you mean that you are "unlike other ignoramuses" or that I am "unlike other ignoramuses"? (I think that's what Bernard Gui was getting at.)

I don't believe you're an ignoramus. I may not always agree with you but you always come off as reasonable. I don't much care for any media outlet. There is not one that that does not promote some sort of propaganda or has an agenda. Where the media is concerned, there is no such thing as fair and balanced.

[Bikeemikey]

Still talking gibberish, I see.

I hereby take back the rep point I gave you earlier today.

Can't do that, you say? I'll give you a negative credit: Next time you deserve one, I'll withhold it. And I'll say so.

But as an employee if the criticized entity you lack a certain objectivity on at least half his post...

[Tacenda]

I listened to a podcast last night. I rarely listen to Mormon Expression ones, because they've become too negative, but this one caught my eye. They dicussed Utah cultural as being "passive aggressive". And I dozed off for most of it, but did agree to some of what they were saying. Like sometimes we tend to act like we know what's best for everyone. I'll maybe listen again to catch what they were saying exactly.

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't believe you're an ignoramus. I may not always agree with you but you always come off as reasonable. I don't much care for any media outlet. There is not one that that does not promote some sort of propaganda or has an agenda. Where the media is concerned, there is no such thing as fair and balanced.

I'm glad you are even-handed in your criticism. And if you were to amend your last sentence to read, "Where the media [are] concerned, there is no such thing as objective," I would even agree with you. But I believe it's possible for a media outlet to be fair, just as I believe it's possible for a non-objective individual to be fair.

[Scott Lloyd]

But as an employee if the criticized entity you lack a certain objectivity on at least half his post...

Who claims to be objective? Who claims that it's even desirable? I don't. (See the message I just posted to Valentinus.)

Edited May 12, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[mfbukowski]

Tis indeed a strange place where you live but it seems to be contagious as it is spreading.

The great irony is that they call it the City of the Angels.

Oh well. We do what we can!

[mfbukowski]

I don't believe you're an ignoramus. I may not always agree with you but you always come off as reasonable. I don't much care for any media outlet. There is not one that that does not promote some sort of propaganda or has an agenda. Where the media is concerned, there is no such thing as fair and balanced.

Guess what. EVERYONE has an agenda. There are no facts, only interpretations. What kind of good Marxist are you if you don't know that??

Gus Hall would be ashamed. But really- isn't the CPUSA kind of passe now?

"If you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao

You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.

You know it's gonna be

Alright."

[mfbukowski]

And I dozed off for most of it, but did agree to some of what they were saying. Like sometimes we tend to act like we know what's best for everyone.

Hey wait a minute! That's also Washington DC culture!

Edited May 12, 2013 by mfbukowski