What Is Utah Culture And What Is Church Culture?

[thesometimesaint]

The ones from here tend to hit St. George, Provo, or a Salt Lake suburb, I think -- I know they had an Ascutney Ward reunion out there and posted a picture of a frigging room full of former Ward members now living out there. Most were people who had moved here from Out West and lived here for a couple decades and then moved back out there and were followed by their young married children. Trying to find an active Mormon spouse out here can be a challenge so lots of our kids who go to BYU wind up married to spouses from the Mormon corridor and tend to wind up back out there. If a young adult does not go to BYU or BYUI from out here the chances of marrying in the Church drop very substantially and if they marry outside the Church their chances of remaining active fall through the floor. We really, really need a marriage mill like BYU or BYUI out here on the East Coast it would change Mormon demographics considerably and substantially boost the likelihood of youth staying active after college -- about 100% more effective than preaching to them.

I met my future wife at an Institute class at a local college. Here in the capital of Sodom and Gomorrah, southern California.

[Stone holm]

That's not the way I've heard the term "Molly Mormon" expressed in the past, it is usually referring to someone who is overly zealous in obeying the "letter of the law" if you will. I have never heard someone begin called a "Molly Mormon" for being materialistic.

You find then that members of the church from Utah are more materialistic than those outside of Utah? Also it appears that you find them politically illiterate, spiritually superficial, and having no "environmental ethic" (whatever that means).

These are not very flattering claims. Would you care to elaborate why you feel this way?

-guerreiro9

I don't necessarily feel that way. But a fair number of young marrieds out here do...not sure why they zero in on the materialism. I know my daughter who a very devoted Mormon was shocked at the superficiality at BYU -- amount of time coeds spent in from of the mirror getting their make-up just right , etc. Course she was kind of reared as a boy and is now a doctor. I personally tend not to pay much attention to whether someone is materialistic or not...I know one of my sons made a list of what was and was not acceptable in a future spouse...which was a bit bizarre....he had on it that she couldn't be from Utah....course he also had on it that she had to snowboard, so go figure. It is interesting that in his pursuit, there was this one girl at BYU who kept giving him what was considered the normal blow off line if said by a coed, namely "Sorry, I have to study." Which he said was almost never true, but he decided to finally check up on this one and discovered "Oh my gosh, she is actually studying!" That is the one he married, she is now a Dr....and she wasn't from Utah and he taught her to snowboard...lol

[Stone holm]

I met my future wife at an Institute class at a local college. Here in the capital of Sodom and Gomorrah, southern California.

Yeah, well there are more Mormons in California than in rural New England let me assure you....

[Sine Saw Square]

I find a lot of non-Utah LDS look down on Utah, it's people, and culture. Perhaps this is a self selecting phenomenon as those who admire Utah tend to move there.

I attended BYU in the late 1990s and did encounter a few Utah natives who were a bit suspicious of other parts of the US but I found that most wanted very much to be perceived as world-wise. Landlocked Californians if you will.

Grass is greener on both sides?

I do think that it is in the interest of the Church to do what it can to present a non-Utah centric profile. But Utah is where the headquarters and a lot of it's history are located so surely that heritage will cast a shadow. As a teenager I lived in Brisbane Australia for a year. The Relief Society in our ward there made quilts for one of it's activities because that was recommended in the lesson material. You don't need quilts in sub-tropical Brisbane but the sisters understandably wanted to follow the Program. That was almost 20 years ago and I think the Church has made a lot of progress in this regard. There are things it could do more but I hope people don't become overly sensitive and ready to be offended at every Utah oriented reference.

[thesometimesaint]

Yeah, well there are more Mormons in California than in rural New England let me assure you....

Maybe us Californians know something New Englanders don't.

[Stone holm]

Maybe us Californians know something New Englanders don't.

Yeah like its warm in the winter? But you also have to realize that parts of Southern California were part of Brigham Young's scheme for the State of Deseret, so some towns and cities were originally laid out by Mormons.

[Stone holm]

I find a lot of non-Utah LDS look down on Utah, it's people, and culture. Perhaps this is a self selecting phenomenon as those who admire Utah tend to move there.

I attended BYU in the late 1990s and did encounter a few Utah natives who were a bit suspicious of other parts of the US but I found that most wanted very much to be perceived as world-wise. Landlocked Californians if you will.

Grass is greener on both sides?

I do think that it is in the interest of the Church to do what it can to present a non-Utah centric profile. But Utah is where the headquarters and a lot of it's history are located so surely that heritage will cast a shadow. As a teenager I lived in Brisbane Australia for a year. The Relief Society in our ward there made quilts for one of it's activities because that was recommended in the lesson material. You don't need quilts in sub-tropical Brisbane but the sisters understandably wanted to follow the Program. That was almost 20 years ago and I think the Church has made a lot of progress in this regard. There are things it could do more but I hope people don't become overly sensitive and ready to be offended at every Utah oriented reference.

Yeah I think there is a lot of self-selection. There is also a lot of geographic loyalty which tends to pull Utahns back to Utah, and since the odds are very substantial if you go to BYU or BYUI that you will meet and marry there, your chances of marrying someone from that area is increased. I'm serious, we really do need a marriage mill located outside the Mormon corridor. The East Coast probably won't happen -- but I know there are people trying to get something going in Nauvoo -- that would be a start, it would create a major Mormon demographic in the center of the country.

[thesometimesaint]

Yeah like its warm in the winter? But you also have to realize that parts of Southern California were part of Brigham Young's scheme for the State of Deseret, so some towns and cities were originally laid out by Mormons.

I've definitely turned into a hot house flower.

Agreed. I lived in San Bernardino. You can still visit the original pioneer village laid out by those early LDS pioneers. Mill St. got its name from a grist mill there. However with the Utah War Brigham Young called them all back. Most left, but only a few stayed. The big influxes of LDS came in the late 1950's and early 1960's with the cold war.

Edited May 8, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Sine Saw Square]

Yeah I think there is a lot of self-selection. There is also a lot of geographic loyalty which tends to pull Utahns back to Utah, and since the odds are very substantial if you go to BYU or BYUI that you will meet and marry there, your chances of marrying someone from that area is increased.

I heard somewhere that within 7 years of marriage most couples end up living in the same area as the wife's parents... or something like that.

I'm serious, we really do need a marriage mill located outside the Mormon corridor. The East Coast probably won't happen -- but I know there are people trying to get something going in Nauvoo -- that would be a start, it would create a major Mormon demographic in the center of the country.

I think you are on to something there. Outside areas with high concentrations of members it can be very hard and scary for single LDS members to find that someone. Online LDS dating conferences? Or where you thinking of another LDS school?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That's not the way I've heard the term "Molly Mormon" expressed in the past, it is usually referring to someone who is overly zealous in obeying the "letter of the law" if you will. I have never heard someone begin called a "Molly Mormon" for being materialistic.

You find then that members of the church from Utah are more materialistic than those outside of Utah? Also it appears that you find them politically illiterate, spiritually superficial, and having no "environmental ethic" (whatever that means).

These are not very flattering claims. Would you care to elaborate why you feel this way?

-guerreiro9

Generally you would call a guy doing the same thing Peter Priesthood or Captain Moroni.

[Stone holm]

I heard somewhere that within 7 years of marriage most couples end up living in the same area as the wife's parents... or something like that.

I think you are on to something there. Outside areas with high concentrations of members it can be very hard and scary for single LDS members to find that someone. Online LDS dating conferences? Or where you thinking of another LDS school?

Yeah a lot are using the online dating thing some of those marriages even last beyond the first kid. No I was talking about a residential college. College is where most Mormons and actually most middle class kids meet their mates, and no college I know is a bigger or better marriage mill than BYU. It may not be the best at everything, but it is superb at lining up Temple marriages that actually seem to stick. We need similar places where marriageable age young men can meet marriageable age Mormon women and in the process get a degree.

[Buzzard]

Most Utah cultural "things" are less universal than you might think. There are colonies of Democrats located on the East side of the valley, and I recently attended a funeral where neither funeral potatoes nor green jello were served. I personally own no ATV's, and am a bit of a tree hugger. There really is only one attribute that will earn you the suspicion of any and all true Utah mormons, and that is to cheer for or wear the gear of the University of Utah. This is because it is accurately interpreted as a sure sign of imminent apostasy and rebellion against the Lord's University. Utah State fandom and gear is acceptable north of Ogden, since the colors of Blue and White are the same as BYU's.

[Bikeemikey]

To say there is one church culture doesn't work. There are many church cultures depending where in the world you are.

[mfbukowski]

Utah:

Green jello, a strange, clipped accent which among other things uses words like "playjure" and "trayjure" instead of "pleasure" and "treasure", and "pitcher" for "picture" and pronounces "preparatory" "pre-PAIR-a- tory" instead of "PREPPer-a-tory"; funeral potatoes, High Priest lessons which stray from the appointed manuals, a sense that "everybody is a Mormon" and what matters in Utah is actually noticed in other parts of the world. Chapels every two blocks, Smokestacks. Loose zoning laws. Dry heat. Cement mixer trucks that are backwards. Open pit mines. Other stuff too much to mention.

Edited May 9, 2013 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Most Utah cultural "things" are less universal than you might think.

Nah, - the problem is that what is the minority position there is the majority elsewhere.

There are colonies of Democrats located on the East side of the valley,

Where I live everyone is a Democrat!

and I recently attended a funeral where neither funeral potatoes nor green jello were served.

Yeah, but I had never heard of either until I became LDS!

I personally own no ATV's, and am a bit of a tree hugger.

Here, everyone is a tree hugger and practically no one owns an ATV.

There really is only one attribute that will earn you the suspicion of any and all true Utah mormons, and that is to cheer for or wear the gear of the University of Utah.

They have universities out there in the boonies? What do they teach? Agriculture?

This is because it is accurately interpreted as a sure sign of imminent apostasy and rebellion against the Lord's University. Utah State fandom and gear is acceptable north of Ogden, since the colors of Blue and White are the same as BYU's.

Gotta watch what colors you wear around here too- you might get shot by the rival gang!

Edited May 9, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Duncan]

in my mind there are 3 things that are Utah culture

1) TREK!!! is Utah all over the place. It has been imported to everywhere! it has got to go! Please don't be living in 1997 anymore, I can't take it!!!!

2) Certain hymns, like Come, come ye Saints, or Carry on (with such lyrics as 'Firm as the Mountains around us',try singing that in Saskatchewan)

3) I would say that there is a perception that somehow getting sealed in a Utah Temple is better or cooler somehow then say getting married in say a Non Utah Temple. From where I live having all your family and possibly their family all haul it down to Utah is stupid and not financially prudent but at least they can say "well, Wade and Jade were married in the Mt. Flippanogus, Utah Temple and where you were married? Regina Temple was it?...I pity you"

and as a bonus-plus all those swear words, oh my heck, fetch and whatever else!!!!

Edited May 9, 2013 by Duncan

[omni]

One thing I've noticed from many non-Utah Mormons who move to Utah is they often assume everyone is a member. I still cringe every time my wife (who is from California) asks a stranger where they served their mission or asks them what temple they were married in only to find they're not LDS or inactive. I would also frequently see this happen with my out of state former missionary companions. For many non-LDS in Utah nothing makes them angrier than assuming they're members.

[Scott Lloyd]

A fair number of the young marrieds who are not from Utah, seem to be aware. They often refer to move ins as ULDS until they go through detox. It usually refers to uber materialistic, politically illiterate, very well groomed, and superficially spiritual people with no environmental ethic. In other words...

Let us hope your young marrieds will grow up at some point.

[ERayR]

One thing I've noticed from many non-Utah Mormons who move to Utah is they often assume everyone is a member. I still cringe every time my wife (who is from California) asks a stranger where they served their mission or asks them what temple they were married in only to find they're not LDS or inactive. I would also frequently see this happen with my out of state former missionary companions. For many non-LDS in Utah nothing makes them angrier than assuming they're members.

With a chapel every ten blocks it is the logical assumption.

[ERayR]

I met my future wife at an Institute class at a local college. Here in the capital of Sodom and Gomorrah, southern California.

The institute program does provide oasis' in the middle of the parched dry desert and dens of iniquity.

[ERayR]

Where I live everyone is a Democrat!

I am indeed sorry. Do you think there is any hope for repentance before divine retribution is rained down?

Here, everyone is a tree hugger and practically no one owns an ATV.

We indeed are tree huggers too. One piece at a time as we haul it in to burn in our heating stoves.

Edited May 9, 2013 by ERayR

[cdowis]

What are your 5 favorite and least favorite Utah/Mormon quirks?

They call each other Mr. and Mrs. in church.

Your home teaching route is within a block of your house.

You go to a wedding reception, and run across Elder Packer. (Actually they may have two receptions, one limited to General Authorities, and another for the rest of us).

Edited May 9, 2013 by cdowis

[cdowis]

My daughter went on a mission to Provo, and ran across one of my old girlfriends.

Sigh.

Edited May 9, 2013 by cdowis

[thesometimesaint]

Gives new strength to the idea that the Church is really a small world.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So, what is Church culture, what is Utah culture, and where to they overlap?

Utah Culture..."Green Jello".

Church Culture..."Touch not the unclean thing!".

Southern Culture...fried Chicken.

Baptist Culture...fried Chicken.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee