EllenMaksoud Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Somehow I had the idea that D&C 89 specifically prohibited coffee and tea, but the other day I was reading it and it doesn't. So, one of my sisters says that one of the Presidents re-interpreted it to mean those things. I do not have an issue with the interpretation, but can someone tell me who did it and when?
Calm Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I believe it was first Hyrum Smith who said that "hot drinks" was to be defined as "coffee and tea". Do you want documentation?
williamsmith Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The "hot drinks" of the time were Coffee and Tea (from the tea leaf), that was what was in their knowledge and understanding of the time and how and what the word of wisdom was always considered to be and was taught to be referring to.There was no "re-interpretation". That's simply the substances the scripture was referring to.They were powerful stimulants of the time (not as watered down as today, though still strong enough), thus they were what were banned.This was always so.
Stargazer Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I found an early mention of the WoW referring to coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol in the Doctrine and Covenants Study Manual, HERE. It was during the September 1851 General Conference that Brigham Young put it forward as a formal covenant:Although the Word of Wisdom was received on 27 February 1833, its acceptance by individual members of the Church was gradual. On 9 September 1851, some eighteen years after it was given, the Patriarch to the Church, John Smith, delivered a talk in general conference on the Word of Wisdom. During his address, President Brigham Young arose and proposed that all Saints formally covenant to abstain from tea, coffee, tobacco, whiskey, and “all things mentioned in the Word of Wisdom” (“Minutes of the General Conference,” Millennial Star, 1 Feb. 1852, p. 35). The motion was accepted unanimously and became binding as a commandment for all Church members thereafter.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 I found an early mention of the WoW referring to coffee, tea, tobacco and alcohol in the Doctrine and Covenants Study Manual, HERE. It was during the September 1851 General Conference that Brigham Young put it forward as a formal covenant:Thank you. I was hoping for a simple scripture reference, now I'm going to have to study so I remember the story.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 13, 2013 Author Posted March 13, 2013 The "hot drinks" of the time were Coffee and Tea (from the tea leaf), that was what was in their knowledge and understanding of the time and how and what the word of wisdom was always considered to be and was taught to be referring to.There was no "re-interpretation". That's simply the substances the scripture was referring to.They were powerful stimulants of the time (not as watered down as today, though still strong enough), thus they were what were banned.This was always so.I'd really like to have some of my heavily creamed and brown sugared weak coffee once in a while, as I am sure that there is little caffeen in it. For me, however it is a question of obedience, and having been rescued from blackness of the soul feel obligated to comply. 3
Glenn101 Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I'd really like to have some of my heavily creamed and brown sugared weak coffee once in a while, as I am sure that there is little caffeen in it. For me, however it is a question of obedience, and having been rescued from blackness of the soul feel obligated to comply.I think that is a good way of looking at it.Glenn
Freedom Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Thank you. I was hoping for a simple scripture reference, now I'm going to have to study so I remember the story. The church establishes the interpretation of doctrine through policy. The current official interpretation is tea and coffee. It goes beyond just health, however. When a person does not drink tea or coffee it immediately sets them apart. It makes them a peculiar people. 1
halconero Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 To me...the Word of Wisdom is just our version of kosher law. Having worked on a farm, I can honestly say that beef meat is no physically cleaner than pork...or a scaled fish than a catfish.I believe that it's there to test our obedience to the small stuff. For me...adultery and robbery isn't a big temptation...but several prohibited items from the Word of Wisdom? Definitely. 1
JAHS Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Joel H. Johnson, with whose family the Prophet Joseph Smith was intimate, relates that on a Sabbath day in July (1833) following the giving of the "Word of Wisdom," when both Joseph and Hyrum Smith were in the stand, the Prophet said to the Saints: "I understand that some of the people are excusing themselves in using tea and coffee, because the Lord only said 'hot drinks' in the revelation of the Word of Wisdom. Tea and coffee are what the Lord meant when he said 'hot drinks.'(Johnson, J. H., A Voice from the Mountains, p. 12) Edited March 13, 2013 by JAHS 2
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 I believe it was first Hyrum Smith who said that "hot drinks" was to be defined as "coffee and tea". Do you want documentation?This is why I do not question it, Hyrum knew Joseph better than any. My testimony is strengthened by the fact the Hyrum the older followed his younger brother. I am the youngest in my family and my two older brothers would not follow me through the kitchen door on Thanksgiving for a meal. Also when it came to going to Carthage, Joseph asked Hyrum what to do. He did not say I am the Prophet we will do what I want...he like Moses with his father-in-law took and sought counsel. I wish I knew so much more about Hyrum, he was a great man. Could anyone recommend a good book or books. Following his younger brother shows he was not prideful.
Damien the Leper Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The only part of the Word of Wisdom that I break is tea. I drink White Tea because it has extremely high anti-oxidants than other teas. Plus it is Blueberry-Pomegranate flavored...yum! But I don't drink it hot. I love it cold. Does it count as breaking the Word of Wisdom if its not a hot drink?
Tacenda Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The only part of the Word of Wisdom that I break is tea. I drink White Tea because it has extremely high anti-oxidants than other teas. Plus it is Blueberry-Pomegranate flavored...yum! But I don't drink it hot. I love it cold. Does it count as breaking the Word of Wisdom if its not a hot drink?I would love to kick my terrible habit of Diet Dr. Pepper and try this for it's caffeine and health benefits. I usually hate the taste of tea but this sounds good. And it's not hot!
The Nehor Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 No, the confusing part is what the mild barley drinks are supposed to be. Until further revelation comes I am assuming it is an endorsement of IBC drinks.
Ahab Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The only part of the Word of Wisdom that I break is tea. I drink White Tea because it has extremely high anti-oxidants than other teas. Plus it is Blueberry-Pomegranate flavored...yum! But I don't drink it hot. I love it cold.Does it count as breaking the Word of Wisdom if its not a hot drink?If Joseph or Hyrum were both still around to talk to us, I'm sure they'd both say our Lord had black tea and coffee in mind when conveying the idea it's wise to not drink tea and coffee. Green and white teas are fine, I think, and so is de-caffeinated coffee. Just don't blame me if you take my word for it. You should get your own counsel from God, and follow that, if you have doubts.
Freedom Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 The passage is sufficiently vague to allow us to made our own decision. If we are obedient and faithful, and pray for direction, the spirit will witness to us what we should do.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 My mom had an elderly friend that drank black tea and had a temple recommend.
Damien the Leper Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 If Joseph or Hyrum were both still around to talk to us, I'm sure they'd both say our Lord had black tea and coffee in mind when conveying the idea it's wise to not drink tea and coffee. Green and white teas are fine, I think, and so is de-caffeinated coffee. Just don't blame me if you take my word for it. You should get your own counsel from God, and follow that, if you have doubts.This would be odd considering Joseph drank alcohol until he died. I'm under the impression that the Word of Wisdom wasn't mandated until 1921.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 14, 2013 Author Posted March 14, 2013 This would be odd considering Joseph drank alcohol until he died. I'm under the impression that the Word of Wisdom wasn't mandated until 1921."WHAT" ?? !! He drank alchohol until he died? I'm incredulous!!! Well, before I was Mormon, I was already equiped with a heavy prejudice against it, so this is no crisis. I grew up with it being heavily abused and .... If you remember, King David was a murderer and an adulterer, and he's still in the Bible. Go figure.
Damien the Leper Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I have no problem with JS drinking. It wasn't uncommon at the time. Things change within the church and its practices. They will continue to change. No big deal.
phaedrus ut Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I have no problem with JS drinking. It wasn't uncommon at the time. Things change within the church and its practices. They will continue to change. No big deal.I think it's pretty common knowledge that Joseph was a casual drinker and smoker.
Damien the Leper Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 I think it's pretty common knowledge that Joseph was a casual drinker and smoker.Of course. Considering his habits before he died...he wouldn't be able to step foot in a temple today.
EllenMaksoud Posted March 14, 2013 Author Posted March 14, 2013 So, this abstenance is a new direction by a prophet after Joseph Smith. Well, isn't that what prophets do? Don't they lead? If I had lived at the time when there was all this drinking, smoking and consumption, I would have considered converting to Mormonisim, a step down from Islam. Just saying. 3
halconero Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 You have the right of it EllenMaksoud. When the Word of Wisdom was first revealed it was given as a recommendation, but not a commandment. Later prophets of the Church said that the time had come for it to be lived as a commandment.
Stone holm Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 The Word of Wisdom clearly stated when it was given that it was not given by way of commandment. It was not elevated to a commandment until the Saints were deemed ready to accept it as such. For years there has been discussion of expanding it to cover all caffeinated beverages, but it hasn't been in part because it would require too many Saints to mend their ways. From time to time you will come across Prophets throwing cocoa into the mix. I remember my wife and I deciding we would pretend we hadn't read that. Back in the 70's when we were taught by the Sister missionaries we were taught that it included cola beverages and basically all caffeinated soft drinks so that became basically the rule in our household. Interestingly all my children most of whom are inactive still keep the W of W including the caffeinated soft drink rule except one. She is the only one of my children who is a medical doctor...go figure
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