Death Threats

[cdowis]

Dan,

When you make a report, use the phrase "terrorist threats", which should get a higher level of attention. A few years ago someone on this board threatened the First Presidency, and I reported it. It took only a couple of weeks to track the person down and arrest him.

[Storm Rider]

You are amazing. I can't possibly imagine why anyone complains about the poor treatment on this board.

Reread what you wrote. Then ask yourself if you know anything about me, whether I support the "bedlam" board or any other board. How is your comment in any way appropriate?

In no way do I find it funny or appropriate to threaten or even harass Dan, Bill or the others on this board.

I also don't find it appropriate to make very serious accusations without cause. So I simply asked Bill if he had cause for making the accusation. He did, so that is perfectly fine in my book.

Look Control, the type of utter balderdash that you come here to present is just so far from reality that it is absurd. I am a LDS, but that does not indicate that I am perfect and it is ridiculous for you to expect tolerance for absurdity. I know what you wrote and I understand what you meant by writing it; were it not so you never would have written it. I have never suffered fools lightly or easily. Worse, is one that spills their venom and then wants to act innocently of having done what they consciously chose to do. Serious accusations are just that, serious. If the shoe fits wear it and if it does not, then it does not apply to you. Think about it for longer than a typical attention span of a three year old. We are talking about a fellow with a doctorate that is no slouch in the thought department. Tell me; how many times have you seen him running about in a dramatic pique making mindless accusations? I am still spitting and now I have to explain why I find such silliness so irritating! It just makes for a bad day.

You are removed from the thread.

[LDSBruin]

Storm Rider,

This is the same person as ControlFreak. This is not a sock puppet, I merely didn't know that my profile migrated when the board changed. I prefer ControlFreak since I use it a couple of places and is a play on my profession.

Like you, I am LDS. I have never once in my life skipped a church meeting for anything other than illness or travel. I've never once been anything but a full tithe payer. I've read and occasionally participated in this board for around 8 years, since it was the Fair board. Despite being aware of "the other board" for a long time, I've only very recently ever read or posted there, so lumping me in with them doesn't really seem fair.

My concern with Bill's response was very sincere and in no way feigned "innocence" of some deeper malice. My concern was simply that it might be far reaching and unfair to implicate everyone that posts at an unmoderated forum (there are pros and cons to that) in being responsible for a "death" threat that obviously had nothing to do with the vast majority of those participants. I also thought his language was a little strong, but given the circumstances, I'm really not that offended by it.

As it turns out, Bill felt he had good reason to implicate at least one person on that board of being unstable.

The deeper issue at hand, is that this board wants to claim the high road and accuse the other board of travelling the low road. I don't for a second dispute that many participants of the other board go over the top and behave insensitively and inappropriately. But I sincerely question that this board is any better at times. Certainly you use milder words, but consider your comments to me in this thread:

My, don't we live in a naïve little world of make believe

Boneheads of the world unite

look in the mirror and see a jerk

these people actually live and breath in such smug, elitist absurdity in the big house

I have never suffered fools lightly

Think about it for longer than a typical attention span of a three year old.

And yet, not a single person on this board feels that is out of line enough to warrant a comment.

Also:

Look Control, the type of utter balderdash that you come here to present is just so far from reality that it is absurd.

Worse, is one that spills their venom and then wants to act innocently of having done what they consciously chose to do.

CFR

I sincerely hope that you and other board members are able to see the issue with claiming to be the board that DOESN'T engage in character assassination, insult or otherwise base behavior and yet treat posters as you have in this thread. I am very, very serious. Think about it.

If it helps, I am also a "fellow doctorate", with Bill and Dan, and I am absolutely appalled by the personal attacks and threats made by people on the other board, just as much as I am appalled by yours.

If you think there is no difference between boards you will not have an easy time on this one. Board nannies are often removed along with the offenders. Please pick one screenname and stay with it.

[Calm]

And yet, not a single person on this board feels that is out of line enough to warrant a comment.

It is Saturday morning, just how many posters and readers on this board do you think read this comment? I am probably the poster that spends the most time on the board and I just read it. There is also the issue that the moderators have asked us time and again not to get involved in such so as not to heighten the problems and instead reporting them, but moderators are often not here in high presence over the weekends as they have a life or they perhaps they may not have the time to pay close attention and instead make a quick judgment that if they had more time they might have changed. There is a reason why mods don't like board nannying and the result of your criticism towards Bill is good evidence in my opinion of why it is so problematic.....especially when people assume the role of victim along with their nannying by stating they will likely be banned for doing so (and I am not surprised when the moderators are frustrated enough to satisfy that expectation of martyrdom).

Isn't it also inappropriate to assume that every other person on the board besides yourself is okay with Stormrider's comment based solely on the absence of a post just as it would be to make an assumption about the other board being responsible for encouraging violence due to a perceived excessive language of hate, etc. but without any other evidence?

I do believe that Stormrider has jumped to a conclusion about part of the intent of your post but it seems to me you are prone to do so as well.

Add-on: I see that the mods were able to make an appearance...the board worked as it is supposed to except for those who insisted on continuing the interplay...including myself, hopefully people will be encouraged not to respond to posts they feel cross the line and instead let it remain in the hands of the moderators to avoid ramping things up even if it requires patience, something that many of us including me sadly lack these days.

And now enough of my board nannying.

Edited March 9, 2013 by calmoriah

[ControlFreak]

If you think there is no difference between boards you will not have an easy time on this one. Board nannies are often removed along with the offenders. Please pick one screenname and stay with it.

Oh, there is absolutely a big difference. The other board is a rat's nest at times.

I very much appreciate the difficulty of trying to keep a board totally clear of insult and personal attacks, I more than anything wanted Storm Rider and others who may or may not have been bothered by his words to know that it is precisely this kind of treatment that is truly detrimental to questioning, but very sincere members like me. It isn't ok to treat me like a wolf in sheep's clothing or an outright snake because I haven't been able to reconcile everything.

Again, I think your job is hard enough, and it is more up to the regular members who bear the appearance of being the "pros" at apologetics to hold themselves

to a higher standard.

I do believe that Stormrider has jumped to a conclusion about part of the intent of your post but it seems to me you are prone to do so as well.

I'm just not sure what conclusion he could have come to that would warrant that string of name calling.

No one is more responsible for higher standards than the next guy, posters are held to the rules not your standards. Those who tell our posters that they must be measured against people they don't even know will have a hard time on this board. I'm asking you one last time to stop the board nannying and thread hijack before removing you.

[Calm]

I'm just not sure what conclusion he could have come to that would warrant that string of name calling.

And you appear to be jumping to the conclusion that I believe it was warranted, "jumping to conclusions" usually implies a response is not warranted....just as your response that every other poster on the board was okay with what Stormrider had stated was unwarranted.

Everybody move on.

[why me]

Please feel free to call me a *******. It would be a refreshingly positive change from what they call us over there.

They certainly have an obsession that is very unhealthy. Hopefully, the administrator will take my advice and ban from now on threads about Dan, who seems to be their favorite focus. If he bans such threads, the board would improve somewhat.

Edited March 9, 2013 by why me

[mfbukowski]

Well, strictly speaking, they haven't actually been death threats. They've been threats that I'll be academically, professionally, financially, and socially "destroyed" by something that this person and his or her alleged associates plan to do. The latest threat, made early this morning, offered a time frame, which none of the previous ones (made over the past year or so) have done. It says that my doom will fall upon me in about three weeks.

I finally thought it worth going to the authorities.

And yes, as a matter of fact, though I don't (yet) know the identity of the person -- s/he uses an assortment of pseudonyms, but has a very distinct style and certain utterly characteristic themes -- I do know that s/he has posted a number of times (including within the past few days) over on the Contempt and Defamation Board where my Malevolent Stalker and Kishkumen hold forth.

There's another fellow who's threatened me with physical violence off and on over the past decade or two. I know exactly who he is, and have twice reported him to the police. (It turns out that I'm not the only person who has done so, and that he's been reported in a number of different jurisdictions.) I think this latest one is a different person.

LUCCKKEEEYYY!!

Does this mean you get a concealed carry permit??

Those are impossible to get where I live!

[mfbukowski]

Seems like a double standard.

I should hope so!

Who said these things should be "fair"? This is clearly a partisan board, and I for one like it that way!

[Jude2]

When they fight against you this hard you know you're doing something right

Amen!

[ALarson]

I am very sorry this is happening to you! How awful for you and your family. I am very glad that it wasn't an actual death threat, but this is scarey and threatening enough.

I just don't understand how someone would devote the time to do this to another person. I hope it gets cleared up soon, the person gets apprehended, caught and punished. Keep us informed please!!

[Tacenda]

I am very sorry this is happening to you! How awful for you and your family. I am very glad that it wasn't an actual death threat, but this is scarey and threatening enough.

I just don't understand how someone would devote the time to do this to another person. I hope it gets cleared up soon, the person gets apprehended, caught and punished. Keep us informed please!!

Why is there such a divide between non believing and believing members? Especially if we are united in the belief in Christ? Whoever threatened Dan must be in the non believing camp most likely but why a threat? Why has it come to this? It has to be because the history of the church being plastered on the internet and making it look like the church hid something. The apologist being labeled the bad guy for defending it. I believe the anger comes when these peoples families are in turmoil, or friendships and relatives become estranged when they quit belief. They have crossed the line here. No one should have to have that kind of worry. Edited March 10, 2013 by Tacenda

[Gervin]

Dan P has received anonymous Internet death threats. He has contacted the FBI and police.

To the bastards on the bedlam board, enough is enough. Your years of inflammatory rhetoric have paid off. There are many emotionally disturbed individuals who read you board, and your incendiary attacks incite bad behavior. If you don't stop talking about Dan completely and absolutely legal action may be the only recourse.

Personally I hope it does go to the lawyers. Legal discovery will be fascinating.

I suppose it's good for a friend to stick up for a friend, even if the threat (as it turns out) wasn't related to bodily harm. However, the statement; "If you don't stop talking about Dan completely and absolutely legal action may be the only recourse" seems over the top. Really? A threat of legal action to keep someone from talking about someone else? On an internet board, no less? Perhaps friendship is clouding common sense - or perhaps my understanding of inalienable rights needs clarification.

[Duncan]

I suppose it's good for a friend to stick up for a friend, even if the threat (as it turns out) wasn't related to bodily harm. However, the statement; "If you don't stop talking about Dan completely and absolutely legal action may be the only recourse" seems over the top. Really? A threat of legal action to keep someone from talking about someone else? On an internet board, no less? Perhaps friendship is clouding common sense - or perhaps my understanding of inalienable rights needs clarification.

some folks cross boundaries and sometimes lawyers and legal experts need to remind those people of where those boundaries are

[Gervin]

some folks cross boundaries and sometimes lawyers and legal experts need to remind those people of where those boundaries are

I don't disagree but that has nothing to do with my comment.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

LUCCKKEEEYYY!!

Does this mean you get a concealed carry permit??

Those are impossible to get where I live!

Where? I have had one for 25 years now.

[Duncan]

I don't disagree but that has nothing to do with my comment.

I try so hard to please you

[Gervin]

I try so hard to please you

pls try less

[Louis Midgley]

As everyone should already know Professor Peterson deserves all the abuse that he gets. Let me now describe one of his crimes. Professor Peterson visited New Zealand in 2000. One afternoon my wife and I went with him to the large Islamic center just to the west of Ponsomby. And a large group gathered to here him lecture. He passed around copies of the texts produced by the Middle East Text Initiative (METI) that he created. These consist of the original Arabic (and Persian) and an English translation of very old texts on facing pages.

That afternoon he mentioned that this endeavor would also include some of the previously unpublished medical texts written by the very famous Moses Maimonides, who is famous for assembling what is known as the oral law, and for his enigmatic Guide for the Perplexed, and so forth. And, in Professor Peterson’s witty way he mentioned that the next evening he would be lecturing at the Auckland Jewish Community Center (Synagogue) which is located on Greys Street between Pitt Street and Mayoral Drive just on the west side Meyer Park and hence west of Soctia Place, for those of you who know where the LDS chapel and office building on Queen Street are located. (Those who have visited Auckland will know Queen Street, since it is the main street of that wonderful city.)

When we arrived at the Synagogue, we were surprised to find that quite a few Muslin men had joined us. It was a bit tense when we entered the building. But the Rabbi got the meeting going and Professor Peterson gave his lecture. Soon Muslin and Jews, who had never been in the same room together, were laughing and enjoying themselves. At the end of Professor Peterson’s presentation the Rabbi said that we had witnessed a miracle. This was, he said, the first time any of these two peoples had ever once been in the same room together. And they had enjoyed the evening. He said that the most remarkable part of what had happened is that it took a Latter-day Saint from Utah to make it happen.

I tell this true story, and I could easily provide more details by consulting my journal, because it illustrates, I think, just how awful Professor Peterson really is. My little story also explains why he has visited New Zealand and Australia for Public Affairs many times. And his visits have involved both non-LDS as well as the Saints. It seems that he is despised, ridiculed and stalked by strange people who lurk on the margins of the LDS community, and who hide their identity behind handles, who perhaps envy him, deeply resent his endeavors, and seek to do what they can in whatever way they can to curtail his influence.

[why me]

I tell this true story, and I could easily provide more details by consulting my journal, because it illustrates, I think, just how awful Professor Peterson really is. My little story also explains why he has visited New Zealand and Australia for Public Affairs many times. And his visits have involved both non-LDS as well as the Saints. It seems that he is despised, ridiculed and stalked by strange people who lurk on the margins of the LDS community, and who hide their identity behind handles, who perhaps envy him, deeply resent his endeavors, and seek to do what they can in whatever way they can to curtail his influence.

True enough. He has done wonderful work outside the lds community and within the lds community. Unfortunately, he has become an obsession for cyber stalkers who do nothing but disparage his name. But for all those who know him, kinow him to be a good guy. He is also an asset to BYU and to the lds church.

[Tacenda]

As everyone should already know Professor Peterson deserves all the abuse that he gets. Let me now describe one of his crimes. Professor Peterson visited New Zealand in 2000. One afternoon my wife and I went with him to the large Islamic center just to the west of Ponsomby. And a large group gathered to here him lecture. He passed around copies of the texts produced by the Middle East Text Initiative (METI) that he created. These consist of the original Arabic (and Persian) and an English translation of very old texts on facing pages.

That afternoon he mentioned that this endeavor would also include some of the previously unpublished medical texts written by the very famous Moses Maimonides, who is famous for assembling what is known as the oral law, and for his enigmatic Guide for the Perplexed, and so forth. And, in Professor Peterson’s witty way he mentioned that the next evening he would be lecturing at the Auckland Jewish Community Center (Synagogue) which is located on Greys Street between Pitt Street and Mayoral Drive just on the west side Meyer Park and hence west of Soctia Place, for those of you who know where the LDS chapel and office building on Queen Street are located. (Those who have visited Auckland will know Queen Street, since it is the main street of that wonderful city.)

When we arrived at the Synagogue, we were surprised to find that quite a few Muslin men had joined us. It was a bit tense when we entered the building. But the Rabbi got the meeting going and Professor Peterson gave his lecture. Soon Muslin and Jews, who had never been in the same room together, were laughing and enjoying themselves. At the end of Professor Peterson’s presentation the Rabbi said that we had witnessed a miracle. This was, he said, the first time any of these two peoples had ever once been in the same room together. And they had enjoyed the evening. He said that the most remarkable part of what had happened is that it took a Latter-day Saint from Utah to make it happen.

I tell this true story, and I could easily provide more details by consulting my journal, because it illustrates, I think, just how awful Professor Peterson really is. My little story also explains why he has visited New Zealand and Australia for Public Affairs many times. And his visits have involved both non-LDS as well as the Saints. It seems that he is despised, ridiculed and stalked by strange people who lurk on the margins of the LDS community, and who hide their identity behind handles, who perhaps envy him, deeply resent his endeavors, and seek to do what they can in whatever way they can to curtail his influence.

Thanks for this remarkable story.

[juliann]

When we arrived at the Synagogue, we were surprised to find that quite a few Muslin men had joined us. It was a bit tense when we entered the building. But the Rabbi got the meeting going and Professor Peterson gave his lecture. Soon Muslin and Jews, who had never been in the same room together, were laughing and enjoying themselves. At the end of Professor Peterson’s presentation the Rabbi said that we had witnessed a miracle. This was, he said, the first time any of these two peoples had ever once been in the same room together. And they had enjoyed the evening. He said that the most remarkable part of what had happened is that it took a Latter-day Saint from Utah to make it happen.

He also did this in my area sometime ago...it was also remarkable. Dan is quite well known....there is one member of my ward who now thinks I am so cool because I know him. I also remember speaking to a woman at a FAIR conference who told me she had driven from No. CA. just to see him. I quickly flagged him down and he came right over and spoke to her personally. A lot of Mormons know "FARMS" but almost no one knows Maxwell Institute. I always have to explain it to them. FARMS is universally popular with average Mormons....it is what got me started in graduate studies. Nothing is going to change that.

I'm not familiar with the Claremont Mormon Studies program now, but I was there in the years when it was planned and launched. It was about as "apologetic" as a grad program at that level could be....as well as the other religions they set up programs for. The very purpose of it was to serve the religious communities. Great care was taken to put all of this in place. They had a wonderful yearly seminar in which the community was invited...they did things like have everyone go to sessions put on by the specific religions, the point being to come to an understanding of one another. What I remember most is the blow out dinners they put on after. It was all free. There was discussion of the need for the Chairs to be filled by believing members of each religion. I remember one conference where people of each religion met together for sessions. The Mormons filed into the room....I believe Bushman was moderating....we began frank discussions about Mormon things. Meanwhile, cameras were set up. Then the cameraman started asking strange questions. I remember how nonplussed Bushman was, although he finally had to redirect the conversation. It turned out that the questioner/camera man wasn't a participant. He admitted he was from an anti-Mormon ministry when Bob Briggs questioned him afterwards. The organizer was pretty fried about it, but it was a good welcome to our world introduction.

Anyway, I'm sure CGU will be a model for a long time to come. And it not only did not set up lines in the sand as some appear bent on doing, it took great care to eradicate them.

[Daniel Peterson]

Lou:

Thanks for posting this story. I am, frankly, growing tired of, and frustrated by, the incessant personal abuse and vilification that some have orchestrated and aimed at me.

Some will, of course, flatly deny your account and claim it to be a lie. Others will suggest, as they've suggested before, that I can be a decent enough fellow under the proper laboratory conditions, but that I'm essentially a Jekyll-and-Hyde, prone much of the time to incredible viciousness.

A few of them, I think, actually believe such slanders. And there seem to be a fair number of others who passively accept them as true.

But it's a tissue of falsehoods. I'm pretty much what-you-see-is-what you-get. I really am the fairly jovial, optimistic, friendly guy that some have reported me to be. I don't have a dark side. I don't become a monster when my computer goes on. I'm not devious or Machiavellian, either -- which is why I was so completely blindsided when a small cabal of "colleagues" decided to take me out. I would never, ever, have done such a thing to them, and it had never entered my mind that they would do such a thing to me. The wages of naïveté.

.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Daniel Peterson

[Avatar4321]

Dr. Peterson, I am sorry that you are being threatened in any way. I will pray for you and your loved ones to be safe.

This thread reminds of me of a quote attributed to Mahatma Gandhi. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"

If he was correct, then you are about to win. Of course, Im not entirely sure what you'd be winning.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Avatar4321

[USU78]

I would consider it a great honor, Herr Professor Doktor, to be permitted to kick the disappointedly malshaped and overly narrow buttocks of the Trailerpark Terrorist for you.