Bikeemikey Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 One of the clips points out Mitt and Ann Romney in the Celestial Room with secret service agents nearby. It is impossible to actually see their faces but if the identification is correct, then it points to this year.How does secret service in the temple work? Do they have to be members? Are they allowed to sit next to mitt and Ann and not so the ceremony?
Storm Rider Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 How does secret service in the temple work? Do they have to be members? Are they allowed to sit next to mitt and Ann and not so the ceremony?Anyone who enters an LDS temple for ordinance work would be required to have a current temple recommend. If a secret service person was attending the temple with a future President Romney he must have a temple recommend. It would pose no problems to have them sit next to a specific individual. It would also not be too difficult to schedule a special temple session for a specific group to attend a specific temple session. When a building inspector, a fire inspection, etc. must visit a temple, the timing is such that temple work is not being done. If it must be during a time when the temple would normally be functioning, all temple work ceases to allow for the inspection. Once the non-member has left the ordinance areas, then the work resumes. It is really not a challenge for proper functioning of the temple.
Duncan Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Anyone who enters an LDS temple for ordinance work would be required to have a current temple recommend. If a secret service person was attending the temple with a future President Romney he must have a temple recommend. It would pose no problems to have them sit next to a specific individual. It would also not be too difficult to schedule a special temple session for a specific group to attend a specific temple session.When a building inspector, a fire inspection, etc. must visit a temple, the timing is such that temple work is not being done. If it must be during a time when the temple would normally be functioning, all temple work ceases to allow for the inspection. Once the non-member has left the ordinance areas, then the work resumes. It is really not a challenge for proper functioning of the temple.that happened awhile back when I was at the Temple. This lady took a turn for the worse and passed out or had a heart attack or something in the Celestial room and they had to call the Ambulance folks and they came into the Temple and got her out, I was coming out of the dressing room when they nearly knocked me over carrying her out
thesometimesaint Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) That seems inconsistent. You think it is OK to ask for ID in the Temple but not for voting? That one is discriminatory but the other would not be? Please clarify without making the thread into a political thread.Apples and oranges. You have a right to vote, you don't have a right to attend the Temple. Edited October 22, 2012 by thesometimesaint
Popular Post Damien the Leper Posted October 22, 2012 Popular Post Posted October 22, 2012 Saw a video on reddit today, followed the link to Youtube. This coward is posting his videos with his commentary on Youtube and all over the internet.It's not the temple content that is the most sacred part of the experience. Anyone can access the endowment ceremony from any number of sources. I don't mean to down play the temple rituals by any means.However, what is important is the sacred experience with God that the temple attendees have. Without the sacred experience with the Divine that members claim to have in the temple, the ordinances would be irrelevant to the individual.It is disheartening, even for me as a non-member, that individuals such as this person would choose to defile that which is held dear to millions of people. But drawing attention to the propaganda, because that is exactly what it becomes, is equally as bad. 5
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 It's not the temple content that is the most sacred part of the experience. Anyone can access the endowment ceremony from any number of sources. I don't mean to down play the temple rituals by any means.However, what is important is the sacred experience with God that the temple attendees have. Without the sacred experience with the Divine that members claim to have in the temple, the ordinances would be irrelevant to the individual.It is disheartening, even for me as a non-member, that individuals such as this person would choose to defile that which is held dear to millions of people. But drawing attention to the propaganda, because that is exactly what it becomes, is equally as bad.Well said...indeed.
Saints Alive Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Well said...indeed.Agreed, I wish more nonmormons and former mormons would speak out about Mike Norton's reprehensible behavior.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) As Jeremy points out, this is nothing new except for the technology. When I was a boy some patron planted a bomb in the SL temple and it blew out a window.I recollect the incident, but I don't remember the bomb actually being planted inside the temple. I think it was on the exterior.Add-on:I found this in a talk given by Elder Bednarat BYU-Idaho in 2003:Sturdy gospel roots that go deep into rich spiritual soil strengthen and steady us in times of trial and difficulty. One of the leaders of the Church once related to a group of religion instructors (see Robert L. Millet, I Will Fear No Evil, p. 18) that not long after he had been called as a General Authority someone planted a bomb at the door of the Salt Lake Temple. The bomb had exploded and knocked the large, heavy door off its hinges. He commented that the episode was chilling to him and created an anxiety and discomfort, a fear, that lasted all day. To his utter surprise, he noticed that all through the day, in the many meetings he attended with other General Authorities, no mention was made of this scary incident. Finally, at the end of the day, he asked one of the senior Brethren about the temple door, only to have his colleague remark, “Yes, we need to get that fixed, don’t we.” Then he added this important principle, one that will help each of us to be steadfast and immovable as we move into ever more troublesome days ahead: “We do not take counsel from our fears.”This squares more with my recollection of the incident than does your comment. The bomb was planted at a door (not a window) of the temple, on the outside, not the inside. Also, I don't recall that the perpetrator was ever detected, let alone established as being a "patron."Perhaps you have in mind a different incident. If so, I would be interested to see documentation about it. Edited October 22, 2012 by Scott Lloyd
Calm Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 If it is the one I've read about, the bomb was placed by the Eastern doors.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 If it is the one I've read about, the bomb was placed by the Eastern doors.Yeah, that's what I remember as well.
Damien the Leper Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Well said...indeed.Agreed, I wish more nonmormons and former mormons would speak out about Mike Norton's reprehensible behavior.I do what I can. Now I just need to find my steel bat and bash some windows and break some legs. 2
Lachoneus Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I would mention it to one of the Temple workers before the ceremony begins. There should also be some training to recognize such recording devices. They are easy to spot if you know what you are looking for. Then the offending person can be escorted out by Church Security before getting under way.It would be unusual to spot the recording device before the ceremony begins. It is usually hidden in a pocket and brought out only after the ceremony has started. We have been told that if we see any sort of an electronic device (cell phone, ipod, video recorder, etc) we are to stop the ceremony and have another worker escort the person to the President's office. If the person exhibits belligerent behavior upon being found out, we call security and let them take care of it.
Cobalt-70 Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) It is going to gradually get more difficult to catch such devices. High quality video cameras are becoming very small, and they are very cheap. They could be in a pen in someone's front shirt pocket. They could be in someone's watch. They could be in someone's eyeglasses, or in a button on their shirt. I'm sure we will start to see more such surreptitious recordings. Edited October 22, 2012 by Cobalt-70
Scott Lloyd Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 It would be unusual to spot the recording device before the ceremony begins. It is usually hidden in a pocket and brought out only after the ceremony has started. We have been told that if we see any sort of an electronic device (cell phone, ipod, video recorder, etc) we are to stop the ceremony and have another worker escort the person to the President's office. If the person exhibits belligerent behavior upon being found out, we call security and let them take care of it.Have you ever observed an incident like this?
GingerRed Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I guess it will come to putting metal detectors in the temples. How else can we stop it?
Calm Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I would suggest only doing that if it becomes a frequent occurrence that is disruptive to the sessions. Otherwise, I don't see what difference it makes to the general membership since it is now out there already, more versions make little difference save for privacy invasions where people who don't want to be filmed. I can see if there are complaints about that church security may pick up, but as long as it is not disruptive then the only ones being harmed are those who are breaking their covenant and blighting their soul by their intrusion into and disrespect of sacred space. Edited October 23, 2012 by calmoriah 2
MormonMason Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 It would be unusual to spot the recording device before the ceremony begins. It is usually hidden in a pocket and brought out only after the ceremony has started. We have been told that if we see any sort of an electronic device (cell phone, ipod, video recorder, etc) we are to stop the ceremony and have another worker escort the person to the President's office. If the person exhibits belligerent behavior upon being found out, we call security and let them take care of it.I was referring to the recording device that looks like a pair of glasses. With a small amount of training, these can be identified on sight. The brother or sister using one can be asked to allow one of the temple patrons to look at the device more closely, if in doubt. Those brethren or sisters who refuse can be escorted out according to current policy.
MormonMason Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) It is going to gradually get more difficult to catch such devices. High quality video cameras are becoming very small, and they are very cheap. They could be in a pen in someone's front shirt pocket. They could be in someone's watch. They could be in someone's eyeglasses, or in a button on their shirt. I'm sure we will start to see more such surreptitious recordings.Pen devices would easily be suspect because there is no reason for a pen to be in one's pocket during the ceremony. Eyeglasses devices are easily recognizable if you know what you are looking for. Buttons may be more difficult but can be identified by their structure, if one knows what one is looking for. Greeters can be used for that purpose. A quick glance of the button lines will reveal the devices for what they are. Watches may be difficult but their actions and movements can be noticed because it would look suspicious.There were less of these sorts of incidents when certain things were once part of the temple ceremony. I would like to see most of them put back. People seemingly took it more seriously back then. Edited October 23, 2012 by MormonMason
Saints Alive Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Greeters wouldn't be any use because they don't see you after you change.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 It was a wry, joking, political, side reference to the DNC's claim that asking for voter's ID before permitting the voter to vote is discriminatory. He was connecting that to the temple. It was humor.It's OK, though. It takes a little while for some people to get used to cinepro's sense of humor.What we really need to do is have a local veterinarian show up at each Stake President's temple recommend interview. Once approved by the Stake Pres, an RFID chip could quickly be inserted into the neck of each member. Using advanced techniques of encryption would make it impossible for Norton or his buddies to invade sacred space. 1
Mark Beesley Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I would suggest only doing that if it becomes a frequent occurrence that is disruptive to the sessions. Otherwise, I don't see what difference it makes to the general membership since it is now out there already, more versions make little difference save for privacy invasions where people who don't want to be filmed. I can see if there are complaints about that church security may pick up, but as long as it is not disruptive then the only ones being harmed are those who are breaking their covenant and blighting their soul by their intrusion into and disrespect of sacred space.I agree. It's not exactly an epidemic in the Church. If the Lord was really concerned about it, He would take some action. But in my experience, the Lord is quite willing to let people exercise their free agency all the way to Hell. What is amazing, is that even after someone has done that, the Lord is willing to rescue them from Hell on any terms that person is willing to agree to that are consistent with eternal law. So, they may spend a lot of time in Hell before being redeemed, or they may escape Hell completely if they are repentant soon enough in mortality. So, as reprehensible as we may think a Temple trespasser to be, they remain a Child of God and may benefit from Christ's infinite and eternal sacrifice. 1
MormonMason Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I guess it will come to putting metal detectors in the temples. How else can we stop it?Or, EMP generators to fry recording devices on their way out. You probably don't want to send a person with a pacemaker through one of those, however. 1
MormonMason Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Greeters wouldn't be any use because they don't see you after you change.Not even the ones whom I have seen greeting people entering the ordinance rooms and in the chapel before sessions, after people have already changed?
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