Forgiveness And Adultery

[Calm]

Thank you, Pa Pa.

Thankfully it is not something I have to endure too often, but every now and then it reaches out and sideswipes me. I am not proud of it. I think I would be horrified with myself if it involved just me getting hurt, but because the anger appeared through my desire to defend and protect good people from abuse, I have come to terms with it.

Edited July 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Thank you, Pa Pa.

Thankfully it is not something I have to endure too often, but every now and then it reaches out and sideswipes me. I am not proud of it. I think I would be horrified with myself if it involved just me getting hurt, but because the anger appeared through my desire to defend and protect good people from abuse, I have come to terms with it.

We all get too much exersize beating up on ourselves.

[Glenn101]

Yep, what you are feeling is very natural. Forgiving such a betrayal is a huge task in the best of cases. When the perpetrators show no remorse, that can be especially galling. But, for your own sake, and for the sakes of your children, that is something that needs to happen. Healing is difficult, but Jesus does understand what you are going through. The Holy Ghost is the Comforter that will help you with the healing process.

This is a time when you need all of the faith that you can muster. Remember what Paul told us in Galatians, chapter six verse 7: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

My wife had a very similar case with her former husband. I will not go into the details, but suffice it to say that she was having a hard time with the forgiveness process. especially since her former husband and his new/old wife, flaunted it in her face whenever they had the opportunity.

I pointed out that scripture to her, then I pointed out the following from Doctrine and Covenants, Section 19:

"15 Therefore I command you to repent, repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore, how sore you now not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit, and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink."

Your former wife must go through that repentance process. She must feel and acknowledge the pain and suffering that she caused you and your children. Else, she will suffer the consequences that the previous verses laid out.

If you can wrap your mind around the enormity of the pain that she will have to endure, you may come to at least feel sorry for her.

I was once scalded by the water from an overheated automobile radiator (don't ask), and that type of searing agony is something that I would not wish upon my most bitter enemy. Then, to understand that such agony is nothing compared to what Jesus suffered for us, an agony that all who go unrepentant before the Righteous Judge will have to bear, I sometimes shudder at the thought.

Think about that for awhile, as you continue your own healing process. Maybe it will help. That is my hope.

Glenn

[TAO]

Repentance is so much easier than forgiveness. Although being forgiven for sins does open up my heart to having an easier time being more forgiven.

The result of true repentance I find to be a change of heart that causes a great amount of growth in myself. Perhaps forgiving others is the same. Perhaps when I finally figure out what it really means to be forgiving in this situation I will find myself with a greater change of heart and a growth within myself. Both result in a greater inner peace.

I have found this has worked for me (on more trivial issues though). When I keep focusing on what they did,my heart does not soften, whereas, when I focus on what I can do, and more specifically, what God would want me to do, it makes my hart free. To forgive, even if they haven't repented, can be a great gift to you, and a great gift to them too, even if they don't quite realize things now. So talk to God, and figure out what he wants you to do =).

Best of Wishes,

-TAO

[CV75]

I do not believe it is a case of not letting go. My current question as to this particular aspect is whether doing so is a de facto statement of my being ok with my children being a part another family. If I were to give such permission would I also be giving up, or perhaps sharing is a better term, my rights to a point? And is such really in my children's best interest? Is such really how I should feel concerning my children? Should I really feel ok with this, and is that feeling of being ok with it a necessity for full forgiveness. Sometimes wording/defining these feelings correctly is a difficulty in determining if the feelings reflect my state of forgiveness or not.

Are you speaking in legal or spiritual terms?

In spiritual terms: Forgivenes is not neessary for granting permission for an adulterous ex to be sealed to their partner (can adulterous couples even qualify to be sealed to each other? I thought not; but if so...). Granting such permission is not a statement that you are OK with the decision but view it as the best option all things considered. Your rights as a father are connected with your personal righteousness and management of the priesthood, which will cover your children's best interests come what may. Personal righteousness has much to do with forgiveness, and can give you the strength to deal with unjust treatment and unsatisfactory circumstances and decisions so that you can at least have joy in the Lord and in your posterity.

[Garden Girl]

Hello Yep...

Welcome to the board... I'm so sorry you've had to go through this challenge... but, in the June copy of Ensign, there is an article on page 64 titled, "Finding Peace through Forgiveness." I think you can access it online.... it's very good and lists helpful scriptures as you go through the process of being able to forgive... and it is a process that you must go through if you are to find peace of heart. The other things in regard to your children I will leave for you to counsel with your bishop...

All good wishes...

GG

[Calm]

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/06/finding-peace-through-forgiveness?lang=eng

[Buzzard]

Calmoriah. The wait period before such a sealing is 5 years before an application for sealing may be submitted by the local leaders. I suspect that permission for such sealings is not routinely granted, even after the five year minimum waiting period to make the application.

As others have posted, the blanket prohibition may-may-have been modified. But if you want the straight skinny, read this speech by Hartman Rector Jr. Yes, it's older, but I have always found it very refreshing in it's honesty. Of course, Elder Rector was speaking to a friendly audience in the pre-internet era. Today, the compassion nazis would be all over him for not being sensitive enough. (I am not referring to Hitler or Nazi Germany, so don't trot out Godwins Law). This passage seems relevant to Yep's situation, just reverse the gender:

"But if you understand what the

Lord has said, you're not going to have that young lady. Not and

be sealed in the temple, you're not, That's not going to happen.

And if you get involved this way, you can forget eternal life. That's

really what we're saying. If you want to give up eternal life, you go

ahead and divorce your wife and take this young lady.

President Kimball is also quoted talking about the Handbook of Instructions:

"Is there no exception to this? Well, all exceptions would have

to be approved by the President of the Church. A modification to

the handbook of instructions states if a person has been sealed to

the spouse and commits adultery which is the cause of the divorce

or which results in the breaking up of the home or homes, such

person cannot be sealed to the one with whom the adultery

occurred. If any exception is made to this rule, it must be authorized

by the First Presidency of the Church.

President Kimball has said: "Never will they be sealed, never."

Not as far as he's concerned, they won't be. Now, we know that

this has been violated in the past, but it isn't violated today.

Therefore, if you want to give up eternal life, you just get involved

in this, because I'll tell you, this is serious."

The entire article is available here:

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/IssuesInReligionAndPsychotherapy/article/viewFile/330/308

IMHO, the entire talk is fascinating, and while I think the public stance of the church is a bit softer, mainly for PR reasons, I don't think the principles or practice has really changed much. And IMHO, they shouldn't be. Like Elder Rector said, messing with the Sealing power is serious business.

[CV75]

...meant as a reply...

Edited July 3, 2012 by CV75

[CV75]

A good thought. Yes, part of the ill when we sin against someone is that we are doing damage to their soul by putting them in a position of hurt and anger. But if we sin twice, that damage can be more than twofold. I wonder if this is part of what the Savior was getting at in his parable of the house swept clean to which seven devils returned.

I think this links the ideas that we are to forgive "until seventy times seven", but "woe to that man by whom the offence cometh."

Edited July 3, 2012 by CV75

[why me]

“Forgiveness … can be hard to understand, even more difficult to give. Begin by withholding judgment. … Leave the handling of aggressors to others. As you experience an easing of your own pain, full forgiveness will come more easily.

“You cannot erase what has been done, but you can forgive. (See D&C 64:10.) Forgiveness heals terrible, tragic wounds, for it allows the love of God to purge your heart and mind of the poison of hate. It cleanses your consciousness of the desire for revenge. It makes place for the purifying, healing, restoring love of the Lord.

“The Master counseled, ‘Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you’ (3 Nephi 12:44; italics added).

“Bitterness and hatred are harmful. They produce much that is destructive. They postpone the relief and healing you yearn for. Through rationalization and self-pity, they can transform a victim into an abuser. Let God be the judge—you cannot do it as well as he can.”

Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “Healing the Tragic Scars of Abuse,” Ensign, May 1992, 32–33.

I think that Yep can understand the feelings in this piece. However, I still believe that pardoning is the first stage of forgiveness. It is much easier to pardon someone for causing hurt based on their human imperfections. But to forgive, that may take time. But pardoning can be the first stage of releasing that hurt.

[rpn]

You are in a hard place. I am sorry for your loss. I found myself wondering if you have allowed yourself to actually grieve it, through the whole process. That is necessary before one can do what you are discussing. My first suggestion is to get a book on loss and grieve and make sure you can say you have processed it all. (Also, Bonds that Make Us Free by C. Terry Warner may give some insight.)

Your children are sealed to you and her. Period. They are not going to be resealed to him and her. And there isn't anything that she or even your children can do to break your sealing covenant to them. Only your own actions could do that. It is a pretty safe bet that everyone who makes it to the celestial kingdom will be comfortable and happy with whatever happens there.

You should also know that there is a special process required to go to the temple to be sealed if either party is the one who broke up a temple marriage, and with the other person in the couple. It takes longer (I think the handbook says minimum five years. It goes to the First Presidency, I think. This is precisely because of the implications of so casually trampling temple covenants.

The issues you have with the other guy treading on your turf are a current problem for you. The best case scenario, your children get to have as much normality as can happen in two homes after a divorce. Loving parents give their children permission to love and respect stepparents, and insist on at least respect for them. It is really impossible for stepparents to undermine a child's relationship with their parent, unless that parent makes it me vs. him, or is not around enough, or is selfish and not a good guy. So trust yourself and your influence and inspire your children, rather than fear him.

Which brings me to why the forgiveness thing exists. Anger and hate and revenge and fear cannot co-exist in the same space as faith and hope and inspiration. They just can't (well, maybe for a second in transitions). You need to get yourself to a place where you have turned HIM over to God, and in which you quit spending any emotional energy on HIM and HER. That is why God requires us to forgive ---- so our hearts and hurts can be cleansed so we are free of all that ugly stuff THAT ONLY AFFECTS US, NOT THE PERSON(S) WHO HAVE HURT US.

Trust in God and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct thy path.

ETA: If you have read the middle chapters of "In Quiet Desperation", you have missed the most powerful discussion of the atonement in practical application that I have ever read. You might find them helpful in figuring out how this could work.

Edited July 4, 2012 by rpn

[NightSG]

The way it was explained to me, Christ took on the debt those sins represent. If we don't forgive the debtor, we're really holding it against Him too.

Yes, it can be extremely hard, but it absolutely has to be done.

[Grundelwalken]

Forgiveness is a difficult principle of the gospel when one has been deeply offended. Let me share a personal experience that may help with your efforts.

I am a product of a divorce similar to what you have experienced. My parents were sealed and produced four children during their marriage. My mother was unfaithful many times and dad finally had enough and divorced her. As a young boy (about 6) I was somewhat aware of the antics of my mother and felt a great deal of animosity toward her for destroying our family. It appeared to me that there was no remorse (she continued her ways for many years after the divorce) and she really felt no connection to her children. Over time I developed strong feelings against her and the things she had done.

Fortunately, my father was much more forgiving. One way that he helped me to be prepared to forgive was to never, never speak negatively towards my mother/his ex-wife. Even when he remarried and found a wonderful new mate, he never spoke ill of his first wife -- my mother. As I grew and matured, my love for my step-mother increased to the point that I considered (and still do consider) her to be my real mother. New children were added to our family and there was never any distinction made between the original children and the children from the second marriage.

My own path to forgiveness was much slower than my father's. I recall that as a missionary my mother tried to call me and see how I was doing. When I discovered it was her on the phone I hung up and refused to speak to her. After I was married, my wife invited her to come to our home and stay while she was in town and I was extremely angry. It wasn't until I began to see how much my anger with her was hurting me and my family that I began to consider the need to forgive completely.

I know my circumstances are much different than yours but the principle is the same. Not forgiving was only hurting me!! She had no idea how I felt and really wasn't that concerned with my feelings. When I finally decided to let go, things became better for me and eventually (after she grew up and settled down) our relationship became more congenial. As an adult, I have come to realize some of the reasons she had difficulties in her life and have given her considerations for that. There are still feelings of regret for what happened to our family, but I have no anger or hatred for my mother as I did when younger.

When I have had the opportunity to counsel others touched by divorce, my first suggestion is to do as my father did: never speak ill of the former spouse to the children. And never do anything that would demean the other party in the eyes of the children. I know now that it was difficult for my dad but it helped me to remember who really loved me when things got tough.

Good luck in your progression towards forgiveness. It is worth the journey to have the baggage removed from your back. I hope you can make the effort needed. MW

P.S. Children sealed to parents can never be sealed to anyone else. But O. Leslie Stone (Pres of the SL Temple in 1974) told me that the Lord will always work things out to our best benefit. MW

[Calm]

I make it a point to never criticize a parent in front of a child no matter what. Even if they are complaining about them (and have a right to do so), it does not help to strengthen their resentment by agreeing with them. I don't disagree with them, I just don't encourage the anger, etc.

Children can create weird connections in their heads between themselves and their parents, thinking they are destined to be like them at times for one thing....and if you've criticized the parent, they might begin to see themselves as the target of your criticism. If the point is to help the child, damaging the child's relationship with the parent is the last thing you want to do even if that parent has pretty much destroyed an actual relationship. The relationship still exists in a emotional and mental form in the child's head and that needs to be considered just as the external relationship does.

Edited July 6, 2012 by calmoriah

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The way it was explained to me, Christ took on the debt those sins represent. If we don't forgive the debtor, we're really holding it against Him too.

Yes, it can be extremely hard, but it absolutely has to be done.

The most difficult thing God calls us to do, but the most liberating.