Lottery Winnings?

[rpn]

It's the getting something for nothing element that is the doctrinal problem with gambling (the social aspects of addictions and wasted time and resources also argue against it). I'll never forget watching my date lose $400 in wendover one day when I lived in an apt with no furniture after my divorce. (He won $300 too and thought $100 date not so bad (course this was before the drive over started costing $100 itself).

[DBMormon]

If you win a million in the lottery and after taxes only get 500 K do you pay on your gross of a million as you would a paycheck or the net of 500 K ?

[Erin15]

But that is the choice that each must make on a personal level.

Yes, and each of us will be rewarded or condemned based on our choices.

But....how does the church stand apart from the spirit of gambling and avoid the appearance of it when the articles I posted above were about an LDS family who raised charitable funds by promoting gambling? And, if the church stands against gambling in any form, how is it justified in publishing this story on it's website?

The important question is this: Where do you stand?

[ERayR]

It's the getting something for nothing element that is the doctrinal problem with gambling (the social aspects of addictions and wasted time and resources also argue against it). I'll never forget watching my date lose $400 in wendover one day when I lived in an apt with no furniture after my divorce. (He won $300 too and thought $100 date not so bad (course this was before the drive over started costing $100 itself).

I can't see that as a problem. Early church leaders and missionaries had no problem asking for and receiving money. The church has no problem taking unsolicited donations today. The church has no problems with people inheriting money. I don't see a something for nothing problem. The problem is with those who risk and loose the family livelihood un an attempt to acquire greater wealth. The family welfare should never be jeopardized. There is no problem with being given something you have not earned. The problem is risking all you have on a chance to get greater wealth. Even that seems to be OK as long as you are risking it in a business or in investments..

[ERayR]

If you win a million in the lottery and after taxes only get 500 K do you pay on your gross of a million as you would a paycheck or the net of 500 K ?

The principle remains the same One tenth of your increase. You figure out what the increase is.

[ERayR]

Yes, and each of us will be rewarded or condemned based on our choices.

The important question is this: Where do you stand?

Nope my reward or condemnation is predicated on my acceptance or rejection of the Saviors grace (atonement).

[Erin15]

I can't see that as a problem.

rpn is correct, any time we as individuals get something for nothing we violate the law of the harvest and hurt ourselves spiritually.

[Erin15]

Nope my reward or condemnation is predicated on my acceptance or rejection of the Saviors grace (atonement).

And that acceptance is evidenced by the way you live your life and the choices that you make. Someone who says they have accepted the savior's grace but does not live his commandments has not actually accepted his grace. Faith without works is dead and worthless.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21

[ERayR]

rpn is correct, any time we as individuals get something for nothing we violate the law of the harvest and hurt ourselves spiritually.

Better tell that to all who get inheritances. You might let the church know that their unsolicited donations are violating the law of the harvest. Birthday and Christmas gifts may also be in danger.

[Erin15]

Better tell that to all who get inheritances.

I don't have to. Experience teaches us all over time the joy of acheivement and the numbness of a dolance.

[ERayR]

And that acceptance is evidenced by the way you live your life and the choices that you make. Someone who says they have accepted the savior's grace but does not live his commandments has not actually accepted his grace. Faith without works is dead and worthless.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21

You might want to look back at prior threads. You will find I am very much aware and in agreements that works signal our acceptance. What I have not yet posted on is which works. The works that signal our acceptance of the saviors atonement are the works of the saving ordinances i.e. baptism, the laying on of hands and the temple ordinances. True one should not participate in those ordinances unless he is also being of service to his fellow man. Those stand at the top a long way above rather or not I received unearned wealth.

[Erin15]

You might want to look back at prior threads. You will find I am very much aware and in agreements that works signal our acceptance. What I have not yet posted on is which works. The works that signal our acceptance of the saviors atonement are the works of the saving ordinances i.e. baptism, the laying on of hands and the temple ordinances. True one should not participate in those ordinances unless he is also being of service to his fellow man. Those stand at the top a long way above rather or not I received unearned wealth.

Every word, every thought, every decision, every action. All of them signal whether or not we accept the savior's atonement, and all of them will be taken into account in the final judgement. At no point can we say to ourselves, "All is well, I can stop trying." We must endure to the very end.

[The Grimace]

The important question is this: Where do you stand?

I'm more interested in the question I asked you - how do you reconcile the Church's endorsement of an LDS family's use of gambling to raise funds for a charity, while at the same time stating in the Handbook of Instructions that it opposes gambling?

That said, I'll be generous and answer your question: I feel gambling, like most things, can get out of hand if not controlled. If you are the type that can't control your gambling, stay away. Me, I don't gamble, not because of any religious conviction, but because I don't find it rewarding and I hate losing money. Some people like gambling even if they lose. I've played the lotto a few times and played slots once, and felt nothing but silly for losing 30 bucks.

[Mark Beesley]

rpn is correct, any time we as individuals get something for nothing we violate the law of the harvest and hurt ourselves spiritually.

Baloney.

[The Grimace]

rpn is correct, any time we as individuals get something for nothing we violate the law of the harvest and hurt ourselves spiritually.

Does this apply to organizations, or just to individuals?

[The Grimace]

rpn is correct, any time we as individuals get something for nothing we violate the law of the harvest and hurt ourselves spiritually.

So....

When a friend buys me dinner, I'm hurting myself spiritually?

When I win a free pop at the movie theater, I'm hurting myself spiritually?

When I go to the ward Christmas party and have a free turkey dinner, I'm hurting myself spiritually?

Who knew?

[ERayR]

The important question is this: Where do you stand?

I feel comfortable but don't really know. How many points does it take.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

And if someone bought you a beer, as a gift, it would be silly not to drink it.

No...I was speaking of buying the ticket; first person.

[Carborendum]

Tithing: That is between you and the Lord and no one else.

Gambling vs. Business Risks:

1) With gambling, you only have a defined amount of money. No new wealth is created. There are winners and losers with no additional wealth being created. No one can be a winner without someone else being a loser. Work doesn't change that fact.

2) In business, one succeeds by providing a good or service that someone else has money to buy. As long as all transactions are honest, both profit by the transaction. By having both parties profit by the transaction, wealth is created in the transaction. Work has a great deal to do with the amount of wealth created.

But if gambling is for entertainment purposes only, then the entertainment is what you purchased for the expenditure of money. If you deem the entertainment value worth the amount of money you spent, then this is a business transaction like any other. So both sides profit thereby, and wealth is created in the transaction.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Carborendum

[mikehobbs]

A related question is what about Latter-day Saints who live in, say, Las Vegas. If a Latter-day Saint accepts a job at a casino, is he or she allowed to pay tithing on the money? After all, such a situation could be construed as the church benefiting from the gambling industry.

 

He would be allowed to pay on that job because he is working for the money, not winning it or taking it from someone. Basicly he is not getting something for nothing... 

 

Some other related industries people might think are gambling but are not:

 

Stock = You are buying a part of a company, so you recieve value in this purchase, and selling that value back to the company when you sell...

 

Investments = You are buying the asset, and selling the asset, which is also value (even if you lose money, you are still getting the object or value of the purchase and selling that same thing)

 

Winning lottery or casino games = You win money from casino and give nothing of value in return. This is what the chruch doesn't want to see.   It's not about the risk on your money, its about the value you give to the marketplace in return for the money...

 

 

Here is a quote from one of the Presidents of the chruch that backs up what I'm saying above:

“The Church … is opposed to any game of chance, occupation, or so-called business, which takes money from the person who may be possessed of it without giving value received in return. It is opposed to all practices the tendency of which is to encourage the spirit of reckless speculation. …” (Improvement Era, Sept. 1926, 1100). —President Heber J. Grant (1856–1945)

[ERayR]

He would be allowed to pay on that job because he is working for the money, not winning it or taking it from someone. Basicly he is not getting something for nothing... 

 

Some other related industries people might think are gambling but are not:

 

Stock = You are buying a part of a company, so you recieve value in this purchase, and selling that value back to the company when you sell...

 

Investments = You are buying the asset, and selling the asset, which is also value (even if you lose money, you are still getting the object or value of the purchase and selling that same thing)

 

Winning lottery or casino games = You win money from casino and give nothing of value in return. This is what the chruch doesn't want to see.   It's not about the risk on your money, its about the value you give to the marketplace in return for the money...

 

 

Here is a quote from one of the Presidents of the chruch that backs up what I'm saying above:

“The Church … is opposed to any game of chance, occupation, or so-called business, which takes money from the person who may be possessed of it without giving value received in return. It is opposed to all practices the tendency of which is to encourage the spirit of reckless speculation. …” (Improvement Era, Sept. 1926, 1100). —President Heber J. Grant (1856–1945)

 

So now my Publishers Clearing House winnings are off limits?  Is a $2.00 lottery ticket reckless speculation?

[strappinglad]

Most gambling is of the nature where you get nothing for something ,not the other way around. The house never really loses. Same with Gov't run lotteries. Often the biggest losers are those who spend $20 on lottery tickets and that $20 represents a couple of meals for the family. The poor are preyed upon because of their desperation . Few humans are immune from the temptation to get rich quickly. Some play the stock market recklessly(remember 1929 ), some buy houses they can't afford on the hope that the prices will always go up ( remember 2000-2008 ) , some bet on the horses, some bet on war. I suppose that the farmer bets on the weather and crop prices when he plants. Some might consider that reckless speculation. The difference is that the farmer

works very hard to bring about the success he hopes for.

[The Nehor]

I won $200 from the lotto once. My boss gave me (and all of his other employees) a scratch off ticket. I had just been praying that I needed more money because I had just been called as a Temple Worker and needed a white suit and new other clothes. So I bought my temple clothing with my lotto winnings. I am always tempted to share this in a sacrament meeting talk but so far I have not.

[rpn]

All you did is accept a gift (which happened to be a scratch off ticket.  Not the same as gambling.

[DBMormon]

The principle remains the same One tenth of your increase. You figure out what the increase is.

exactly