My Wife's Encounter with some Lovely Ex-Mormons

[Bond...James Bond]

Why would that make you feel personally slapped across the face by someone you trusted?

It's called a guilt trip beastie. You have to make the person feel that you've personally suffered if you want even the slightest chance of guilting them. Saying "it makes me sad" won't work, so GG has to make it appear she suffers at the news with a side of "I trusted you consig...why did you backstab me (by telling the truth)?" thrown on top.

I wouldn't dare to stop attending church. I don't trust my own weaknesses. I'd too easily convince myself that I am fine w/o it. Satan would see his opportunity, and take it.

Satan isn't real. You would be fine without it.

[changed]

There is a difference between doing something out of obligation and doing it because you want to do itâ?¦ like if you go to school and they assign you to read a book, then you read it because you have to â?? to get the gradeâ?¦ vs. if you read it on your own, without being obligated into it by anyone, you enjoy the same book much much better.

If you treat church as an obligation, a duty, etc. it will be and will feel like school/work/etcâ?¦ In order to enjoy it you have to go â?? not because others expect it of you, or because you know it is true, or because your kids would be let down if you did not goâ?¦ If you want to enjoy it you have to go for the right reasons. The right reason being that you choose to go â?? of your own free will and choice.

When you can change your reasons for going, then you can enjoy what is there.

I think this is why the Free Masons are such a successful organization. Do you know how to join the Masons? They have no missionaries, no recruitment office, no one will ever come up and ask you to join. If you join it is not because someone asks you to join, it is not because you feel obligated to join. In order to join you simply walk up to a member and say â??I would like to joinâ?. You do this of your own initiative, of your own free will and choice. Church should be the same way. Not out of duty, obligation, etcâ?¦ out of your own free will.

I am a convert. No one asked me to go to church, my fam did not want me to go. I go of my own free will and choice, not out of obligation to anything or anyone. I go for the right reasons, and I love church. I look forward to it all week long. Honestly and sincerely, I love church. I honestly think the difference comes from the reasons why we go, not in what is there.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

(New Testament | Matthew 6:5)

Do you go to chuch to be "seen of men"? To be seen by your kids, .... do it for the wrong reasons, you no, you will not enjoy it.

[LDSMusic483]

Satan isn't real. You would be fine without it.

Uh huh

2 Ne. 28: 22

22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is noneâ??and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.

[Bond...James Bond]

Uh huh

2 Ne. 28: 22

Scripture is not a source, it's an excuse used when you have no source. Any real evidence that the Satan (or the bogeyman or whoever haunts your dreams) exists?

[Garden Girl]

It's called a guilt trip beastie. You have to make the person feel that you've personally suffered if you want even the slightest chance of guilting them. Saying "it makes me sad" won't work, so GG has to make it appear she suffers at the news with a side of "I trusted you consig...why did you backstab me (by telling the truth)?" thrown on top.Satan isn't real. You would be fine without it.

Sorry BJB... no guilt trip intended... it just took me by surprise... I care about the people here. I acknowledged that if that was the way Consig felt, that was the way he felt... and yes, it does make me sad to think that someone who has posted here in support of the gospel and Church would actually hate attending the meetings.

GG

[Bond...James Bond]

Sorry BJB... no guilt trip intended... it just took me by surprise... I care about the people here. I acknowledged that if that was the way Consig felt, that was the way he felt... and yes, it does make me sad to think that someone who has posted here in support of the gospel and Church would actually hate attending the meetings.

GG

This is what I don't understand. Consig seems like a hellofava guy who if his behavior online is any indication treats people very well IRL (which in my opinion is the main point of Jesus' message right? Love thy neighbor, treat people well, etc)...why that is not sufficient? Can't you support the gospel enough by actually living the message? I know I know....honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy etc etc. I still think I would prefer that people treat each other nicely the whole week long and not go to Church than go to Church and then act poorly the rest of the time.

It seems like that too many people consider Church a booster shot of goodness that allows them to be jerks the rest of the week. (Not anyone in particular on this board since I don't interact with them, but you know what I mean. I go to work in a bit and I gurantee I'll see people all dressed up coming from church who immediately go back to being jerks when they're not in Church.) I'm sure everyone knows people like this.

I apologize for calling the above a guilt trip GG.

[Aquilifer]

Consig,

At the risk of piling on with more advice, I thought that the Apostle with the charming German accent delivered a timely address on the journey of discipleship which I hope might offer some counsel for your situation.

I know from my own experience that the Church seems to require one to keep swimming one way or another. Treading water isn't an easy or sustainable option. I wish you and yours the best.

[LDSMusic483]

Scripture is not a source, it's an excuse used when you have no source. Any real evidence that the Satan (or the bogeyman or whoever haunts your dreams) exists?

You made the claim he doesn't exist. Where is YOUR source or evidence of this? Any real evidence besides that you haven't seen him?

[alter idem]

Consig,

However, here's a simple thing I would propose...

Maybe your wife could try attending church with no intention of getting anything out of it - not social, spiritual, intellectual, emotional, etc. She only goes to church to see who she can help. Maybe it's only a smile. Maybe she helps a young mother with her new baby. Maybe she helps by substituting for a class. Maybe she shares an experience she's had in the past that can help someone else through a similar experience. Maybe she makes a positive uplifting comment to one person.

That's it. Just focus each week on doing that one thing for someone else. Everything is focused on that.

Excellent post and excellent suggestion, Kawikadave, Thanks for sharing your insight. This is the way to find joy in all aspects of everyday life--the things we like doing and the things we need to do or are asked to do.

Consig, I hope you'll share kdave's suggestion with her.

[alter idem]

Sorry BJB... no guilt trip intended... it just took me by surprise... I care about the people here. I acknowledged that if that was the way Consig felt, that was the way he felt... and yes, it does make me sad to think that someone who has posted here in support of the gospel and Church would actually hate attending the meetings.

GG

I don't know. I felt that Consig was being honest--admitting that he's got flaws and foibles just like the rest of us. I don't happen to share this one, for the most part I love attending church and always have, but I know I have other things I struggle with. We all have things we struggle with that we are asked to do. From other posts on this thread, it's clear that he's not alone. I think the ward you live in will either help or hurt your desire to attend meetings--GG, you, I and the others who love meetings may have always been blessed to attend wards filled with people we like, admire and can learn from--and the members we only tolerate or try to avoid are few in number and don't quelch the positive church experience.

[talisyn]

Consig, are you and your lovely wife listening to Elder Oaks in GC today? I'd say he was talking directly to your family (and mine ).

[jwhitlock]

Consig, are you and your lovely wife listening to Elder Oaks in GC today? I'd say he was talking directly to your family (and mine ).

Agreed. Elder Oaks sums it up perfectly.

[Calm]

This is what I don't understand. Consig seems like a hellofava guy who if his behavior online is any indication treats people very well IRL (which in my opinion is the main point of Jesus' message right? Love thy neighbor, treat people well, etc)...why that is not sufficient? Can't you support the gospel enough by actually living the message? I know I know....honor the Sabbath and keep it Holy etc etc. I still think I would prefer that people treat each other nicely the whole week long and not go to Church than go to Church and then act poorly the rest of the time.

I'm not sure what you are reading in GG's post that took you in this direction.

My own reaction to his situation includes sadness just as GG's does. I think Consig is a great guy and his wife likely is as well (great, not a guy) and I want him to be able to enjoy his life to the fullest. If he hates ( as opposed to dislikes or doesn't care about) going to Church, that means he is suffering and that makes me unhappy for him. It also means that she and he are unable to connect fully with their community and I believe both sides are suffering loss for that reason. It is just thinking how great things could be and knowing that they are not that saddens me.

[Scott26.2]

I know it has been said already, but Elder Oaks talk is a must for all of us and especially many who have been posting on this particular thread. I must admit that I have been at a loss of words for those who are in the "I have a testimony but I hate going to church" camp. I just don't get it. Perhaps another one of Elder Oaks talks, this one from a few years ago would be worth reading again. His talk on becoming...that there is a difference between knowing and real conversion. I guess it is entirely possible to merely know the church is true and not enjoy the full blessings of Sabbath Day observance, I would be hard pressed however to find anyone...anyone who is truly converted to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ who can't find something positive to say about going to church. The word "hate" wouldn't even be in the same paragraph!!!

Scott26.2

[pcarthew]

Okay, I'm going to open up here with everybody.

Last night I had a long talk with my wife, who has been a Mormon since she was 14. She finds going to Church unbearable, and has long hated Sundays for that reason. She was inactive for a number of years, but in the past 6-months or so has resumed going to Church. (During the period she was inactive, I would take our young daughter with me to Church every week.)

I, too, find Church interminable, but nevertheless religiously attend the three-hour block out of a sense of duty, and only duty, as I haven't enjoyed going to Church for well over a decade now.

During our talk, my wife told me this experience:

Earlier that day, she had gone out to a bookstore and inadvertently locked the keys in the car. She called AAA, and while she was waiting for them to show, ran into an older couple that we know. A little background on this older couple--my wife has a dear friend who is very active in Church and has a family full of active and wonderful people. The older couple my wife ran into are the parents of my wife's friend, and they are wonderful people, too.

But a few years back, this older couple left the Mormon Church and have become active in an Evangelical Church.

They do not seem out to convert anybody, but rather were concerned that my wife might think poorly of them, as other Mormons have; and my wife assured them that she does not.

The older couple shared that when they were Mormons, they were miserable; they didn't like going to Church, and they felt so burdened because even though they were asked to do so much on behalf of the Mormon Church, they never felt good enough. Now they feel free and happy being away from the Mormon Church.

The older lady put both her hands on my wife's shoulders and pressed down. Then she lifted them suddenly and said, "You feel that difference? That's how I felt after I left the Mormon Church. A big weight was lifted! Just like that!"

Now they attend a local Evangelical Church and everybody is happy there, and they have friends and enjoy participating in the worship services.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

(There is more to this story, but I think I will leave it there for now and see if there is any interest, because nothing kills a thread like an overly long OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I believe that as members of the church we learn about the gospel enough to make us feel guilty....we stop there often, but we should press on to the really good news, through Him all mankind are saved. God bless.

[Aquilifer]

I know it has been said already, but Elder Oaks talk is a must for all of us and especially many who have been posting on this particular thread.

I thought that the excerpt from his friend's letter was particularly good advice for some like Consig to consider.

[Scottie]

Maybe you two need to write more of your naughty notes in Sacrament meeting??

[Lizarian]

That's a difficult situation. If the Church is true and the Brethren are inspired, then what are we to do with our callings and responsibilities? If those two conditions are indeed real, then I like President Kimball's quote, "My life is like my shoes--to be worn out in service." I see it as being similar to the Savior who gave his life for service.

The flip side is, if the Church is not true and the Brethren are not insipired, then it would certainly be more comfortable (and fun) going to another Church with professional musicians, preachers, youth ministers, etc.

When I was on my mission, we had members who were active and believed in the Church, but still went to their former churches as the same time because they missed the guitar playing and the 'OH JESUS!" "PRAISE THE LORD" ability to yell out that they used to have. I thought it was kind of weird myself.

[Daniel Peterson]

I'd like to endorse Elder Oaks's talk for this thread, too. When I heard it, I immediately thought of the discussion here.

[Stargazer]

To clarify, I don't care what people say about me. After all, Will thinks I'm evil incarnate, and we still like each other. I'm just surprised by what people have said to my wife's face. That's what upset her.

I can't imagine treating someone badly just because I had disdain for her husband. It seems all so disrespectful. My Dad taught me to be respectful to women, and garbage bags who are not have none from me. My role model in this is Alice in the Dilbert comic strip. "Must ... control ... First of Death..." But I've never actually hit anyone in this circumstance. So far. I admire my self-control.

[Stargazer]

I'd like to endorse Elder Oaks's talk for this thread, too. When I heard it, I immediately thought of the discussion here.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking while listening to that talk. In fact, I have thought of this thread frequently during conference. I wish I could relate better to his wife's situation, but I thoroughly enjoy Sacrament Meeting.

And Conference today was an utterly wonderful spiritual feast.

[T-Shirt]

I'd like to endorse Elder Oaks's talk for this thread, too. When I heard it, I immediately thought of the discussion here.

I must admit, I had the same reaction. I came to the board to post my thoughts and several had already beat me to it. I am not saying this because I think Sister Consiglieri needs chastisement, but because, while I don't suffer from the same thing as she does, I can still understand, and Elder Oaks's talk had quite an effect on me and I thought it might do the same for her.

All the best,

T-Shirt

[mfbukowski]

"I am doing a great work and cannot come down."

Yeah, maybe I should think about getting back that that great work. This place is for a good read or a tustle, but after too much time it's a bit like that malfunctioning green light.

I am coming to the same conclusion. Hasn't really done much for me, I know that. If I felt like I was helping someone it be different, but it seems like a zero sum game to me.

[Bond...James Bond]

You made the claim he doesn't exist. Where is YOUR source or evidence of this? Any real evidence besides that you haven't seen him?

LOL. You make the claim that he exists by saying "Satan would see his opportunity, and take it."

Have you seen him?

[Aquilifer]

LOL. You make the claim that he exists by saying "Satan would see his opportunity, and take it."

Have you seen him?

I have. He is real, he has a presence, and to be in that presence is to peer into an abyss of darkness that cannot be described. I dare not elaborate further.