My Wife's Encounter with some Lovely Ex-Mormons

[Mudcat]

Consig,

I am sorry. Sorry that in the courses of her life, she has seen so much pain. You strike me as a compassionate fellow, who loves your wife dearly. I am sure the knowledge that she bears a pain you can't take away from her, is a different sort of suffering in itself. I am sorry for that as well.

I can't say as I could blame anyone for feeling the way she does about things. I wished I had some good advice.

The only thing I could offer, in light of all information given, is that I believe your highest calling in life is to be a man of God, to be an example of Christ before her. To day after day, continually try to be as worthy of the gift that God has given you, by giving you her. Then, trust him to handle the rest.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

As an afterthought, I would imagine she has probably had some sort of secular counseling. But if not, I would see if she is open to such.

[wenglund]

My wife feels betrayed by that God who is supposed to love her.

Any thoughts? All the Best! --Consiglieri

I found Dr. Laura's book "Bad Childhood, Good Life" to be inspired and helpful in addressing the "real issue" in certain people's lives (like perhaps with your wife). I say "real issue" because I view the feelings of divine betrayal, like with the general distrust of men, etc., to be symptomatic, and a poor "fix" of what is "really" broken. Finding the right "fix" may help ease the symptoms, or even cause them to disapate.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[William Schryver]

No thoughts. Just the desire to give both you and her a hug.

Same here.

I do think that more often than not, the trials of our lives appear utterly pointless to us while we are caught up in them, but that the long-term effects of the power of the atonement acting upon us can and does heal the wounds. And, in the end, those who are healed most love most. And eventually we come to see the hand of a tender and merciful God reaching out to us throughout all the soul-wrenching periods of our lives.

[searchinguy]

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

My heart aches for your wife and I'm really sorry she has had to bear so much. I have had feelings similar to hers without, I'm sure, going through a fraction of what she has.

Despite the premium placed on 'faith alone' by some, I think doubt can be a pathway to good thingsâ?? some that can be found in no other way. I wish her the best in her journey. She's lucky to have you along for the ride.

-searchinguy

[Scott26.2]

My wife's faith in God has been devastated. She has tried her best to be good and true and Christlike in dealing with this, and caused me to cry on numerous occasions when I see how forgiving she has been; more forgiving that I could be if I were in her position.

As she expressed to me her struggle, "Doesn't God know the future? God knew what would happen if I entered into a second marriage. And yet God didn't just not warn me away from it, God deliberately led me into it."

As she also said, "I feel like maybe there are a number of different Gods, and some are better than others; and some members get the 'B' God and I got the 'Q' God."

My wife feels betrayed by that God who is supposed to love her.

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Consig...I would also like to express my heartfelt, best wishes and prayers to you and your wife. Thanks for having the courage and trust to post sesitive personal matters. My own thoughts keep returning to General Conference. I can think of two talks; Elder Holland's Sunday morning and President Monson's Sunday morning that would be worthwhile to read and reread. I am sure that you have already shared every scripture story and inspiring quote you can think of to help your wife. I am sure you have shared your own testimony of your love of God and your trust in his Plan. If my wife was struggling in a similar manner, I think I would want her to know, maybe before anything else, that I love her and that I would always be there for her. Anyway, nothing you didn't already know

We are all in your corner

Scott26.2

[emeliza]

Consig~ I am also sorry for what your wife and daughter have had to endure. Unfortunately it happens to the best of us and what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. There are many of us who have learned that horrible things happen to go people who have no control and it often takes years to partly overcome it and even more to move on towards forgiveness of ourselves and our previous situations. I hope your wife will eventually realize it wasn't God that let her down, but rather humanity.

[zerinus]

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Thanks for sharing this with us. My thoughts are that she should talk to her bishop or stake president and allow them to help her. If she finds it hard to talk to them herself, then perhaps with her agreement you can initiate the process; and when she feels more confident she can talk with them herself.

zerinus

[Calm]

My wife feels betrayed by that God who is supposed to love her.

Any thoughts?

Nothing terribly insightful or helpful, just an observation that I've noticed that it can be extremely hard for those who have had abusive parents (especially fathers) to image a loving God even if they can intellectually accept that. And that is a huge burden to be laid on for anyone.

We definitely translate our earthly experiences to what we anticipate or understand about our divine and eternal ones.

[William Schryver]

Nothing terribly insightful or helpful, just an observation that I've noticed that it can be extremely hard for those who have had abusive parents (especially fathers) to image a loving God even if they can intellectually accept that. And that is a huge burden to be laid on for anyone.

We definitely translate our earthly experiences to what we anticipate or understand about our divine and eternal ones.

My observation has also been that this particular kind of pain occurs not only in consequence of abusive fathers, but also in consequence of fathers who abandon their children, never to return. To me, it is somewhat strange that the effect of both things seems so similar, despite the one being an active and the other a passive offense.

As for the active offenders, the Savior reserved an especially harsh condemnation for them:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

[Lightbearer]

My wife feels betrayed by that God who is supposed to love her.

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I am sorry to hear this about your wife, it adds a perspective to the problem. These are deep wounds to the soul that only the Savior can heal. Here is a link to a Conference talk that may be of help. To Heal the Shattering Consequences of Abuse

I hope it is of some help.

God bless,

Lightbearer

[Calm]

My observation has also been that this particular kind of pain occurs not only in consequence of abusive fathers, but also in consequence of fathers who abandon their children, never to return. To me, it is somewhat strange that the effect of both things seems so similar, despite the one being an active and the other a passive offense.

As for the active offenders, the Savior reserved an especially harsh condemnation for them:

One of the things discussed in my child pysch classes was that children may choose to act up to receive any attention rather than endure being ignored. Perhaps is easier to pretend someone who is hitting you cares about you than someone who pays no attention.

[Garden Girl]

Hello Consig...

Thank you for having the courage to share more of what surely has been a deeply painful experience for your wife which continues to affect her, and consequently you. My heart softened as I gained added perspective from your additional information posted today. In your OP you were trying to be so careful about not revealing too much that your words left many perhaps with a misunderstanding...certainly myself.

I believe in my heart that God weeps when he sees what his children do and have done, and how we misuse the gift of our agency... (Jacob 5:41 And it came to pass that the Lord of the Vineyard wept, and said unto the servant: "What could I have done more for my vineyard?")

The question that haunts us as we look around our world... when we see man's inhumanity... the question of why bad things happen to good people.

I pray that you both will receive the answers to free your hearts of the burdens pressing on you.

GG

[seashell]

Consig:

I rarely post, but lurk alot, so you probably don't know me, but I feel like I know you. Funny how that works.

No great wisdom from me, just prayers and tender thoughts for you and your wife as you work through this. You mentioned in passing in one of your posts that your wife didn't like many people, not even you most of the time. I'm sure you were being funny, but there is an element of truth there as she has been so deeply hurt and betrayed by people she trusted.

What a wonderful thing that she feels safe enough with you now that she shared all her deepest feelings with you. Be careful with them. Be prayerful about the way you respond to her. Be loyal and trustworthy always so her ability to trust is strengthened. Someone else mentioned that women tend to believe in a God with the same characteristics as their fathers had. When we have a good daddy, we tend to transfer that and believe that God is good. When our fathers are abusive and unloving, we transfer those characteristics to our Father in Heaven.

I think that in some cases (including this one), a woman can learn to believe that God is good because they have a good husband. I know that's a lot of pressure for you, but I think you are up for it. Just listen to and follow your promptings. You will know how to help her or where to get help for her. You will know how to love her so she feels loved and accepted and safe. Good luck my friend.

Seashell

[Programmer]

Honestly, I confess that the nursery is the one calling I aspire to. Maybe thats why I've never gotten it.

Just go ask your Bishop. You may be surprised.

[why me]

I remember listening to Joyce Meyer. She always spoke of her past being abused and how she becamed healed throught god. She seems to be a good speaker who can give the necessary words to people who have had bad personal experiences in their lives. I don't think that there are no easy solutions to work out particular problems. Just love, understanding, care, hope, charity, hugs, beauty and love applied to the person who has suffered with a mixture of talk.

But many of the televangelists speak on these issues of bad things happening to good people. They create a feeling that no one is ever alone in experiencing what they have experienced. And that can also be a good thing too.

[littlechild]

I used to feel that weight to but it had nothing to do with the church but what I thought the church expected of me. Since then I've learned that the expectations I had were my own. I also learned to say no, even to the Bishop.

Having said that I understand how we come to believe that we aren't good enough. We see Sis Perfect doing all these things without any apparent effort. Well guess what I found out some thought I was that Sister, and I would go home an cry because I felt I couldn't do anymore. And guess what I got to know some of those other sisters, and they were just covering up their own fears.

There are a lot of expectations in the church. But what I also came to realize is that the goal is set high but the Lord really doesn't expect us to do it all at once and has told us not to run faster than we are able. We need to look at our current circumstances and obligations and decide what it is we can do now and what might have to be set aside. I have to do the same thing at work. It's called prioritizing.

The church leaders are aware of this problem and have often addressed it. We should love coming to church, which I now do. But it really is all in the attitudes we bring with us.

I can fully understand how going to another church would lift that burden; because nothing is expected of you. They have people who are paid to do all the things we do in church. We can go to church and socialize and go home and not have any further thoughts about it until the next week.

I guess it comes down to what our ultimate goal is. I think we also need to find a reason to enjoy going to church. Whether its to see that sweet elderly lady who always has a smile, or all those little babies (that's why I sit at the back). I'm not always enamored of the lessons or the talks, but I try to think about the principle that's being taught and do my own lesson in my mind.

It isn't easy being a member of this church, but it should not be so hard or so burdensome. It may be time to talk to the Bishop. Years ago my teenage son was getting all stressed out. He had a lot on his plate between school, sports and church. I took him out to lunch so we could talk about it. I told him if he can't handle it all it's ok to not do everything. He needs to decide what is really important. Just talking about it and letting him know he didn't have to do everything lifted the burden. He ended up not dropping anything but found a way to do it all.

I wish you God's blessings in dealing with this. I think most of us have at one time or the other.

I agree with you! I personally have spent some time resenting the burdens of discipleship and now that I'm past 50 I'm looking back and saying, can I PLEASE have a do-over? I want to run back to my youth, and set myself straight. Those little choices I was making had such consequences!

Then I realize that I must accept my past with compassion and as much understanding as I can muster, and make today the best I can make it. At this point in my life, I want to do all I can to live the Gospel and even though there are hardships I am willing to submit to them.

[Somebodyz]

Heartfelt prayers and warm thoughts for you and your wife.

There is lots of good advice here already, so I won't add my 2 cents.

[thesometimesaint]

consiglieri:

All I know is that "My yoke is easy, and my burden light".

[consiglieri]

Thanks, everybody, for your support, insights, and PM's!

Thinking more about this last night, I am reminded of a few weeks ago when my wife was reading the chapter in Rough Stone Rolling about Zion's Camp.

She focused on the accounts of the members of Zion's Camp being smitten by the wrath of God, how they were hit with a cholera outbreak, how when Joseph Smith tried to lay hands on one of the sufferers, the cholera leaped to him; and perhaps specifically on how one of the brothers was struck by lightning in the very act of praying to God for deliverance.

Not only was she confused by this, she wondered why it was that God was punishing these men who volunteered for the trip rather than those back home who did not go.

In other words, why were the righteous suffering at God's hands rather than the unrighteous?

As I recall this, I am starting to think that this caught my wife's attention because she could relate to a person's praying to God for deliverance and being struck by lightning in the act.

I think it spoke to her on a deep level.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Silver Girl]

Hi, Consig...

I don't know if I can be of any help, but I would like to try...

I was badly abused by my ex-husband... I did not think I would ever re-marry, but HF is much wiser than I am... He helped the wonderful man to whom I am now married find me.. I was afraid to trust at first, but I was blessed by a very powerful spiritual experience that caused me to know I could trust HF and this good man He brought into my life... But, it was not enough...

6 months into my wonderful new marriage, I completely fell apart!! I had PTSD... I had panic attacks and nightmares and halucinations... I thought I saw my Ex everywhere!! It felt as if he was stalking me, though he was hundreds of miles away... I cried at the drop of a hat... I felt as if I was ruining my new marriage... But, my husband was kind and gentle... He helped as much as he could, and then (gently, but firmly) insisited that I get professional help... I sought out a rape survivor's group, and went to work... I took 8 months before I felt like I had made any real progress, but I did get better!!

Church was SO hard for me during that time... I would purposefully get to RS late, so I could go slip into the back, and noone would try to sit by me... I would look around the room, and "know" that there was noone as screwed up as me in that room!! I felt that if the other women knew what I was really all about, they would utterly reject me... The voices in my head told me I was differnt, and completely unredeemable... I wondered how they could love me.... And how my Savior could possiblly love me...

It took a lot of work, but I am much better now!! I still have bad days, when I feel overwhelmed, or something stupid will happen to bring it all back for a moment... But, I whisper a plea to HF, and the feelings fade again...

I hope your wife will prayerfully consider professional help... It has made a worl of difference in my life!!

Love, Your Sister,

Silver Girl

[Pahoran]

Scripture is not a source, it's an excuse used when you have no source. Any real evidence that the Satan (or the bogeyman or whoever haunts your dreams) exists?

Yes. You continue to post. You couldn't do that if you didn't exist.

But seriously martini-boy, your dismissive Dreck above is utterly self-serving, and you know it. Scripture is a source. You don't accept it: fine. But you don't get to simply wave it away and then demand that someone produce a source you respect, or have the attention span to read.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

Okay, I'm going to open up here with everybody.

Last night I had a long talk with my wife, who has been a Mormon since she was 14. She finds going to Church unbearable, and has long hated Sundays for that reason. She was inactive for a number of years, but in the past 6-months or so has resumed going to Church. (During the period she was inactive, I would take our young daughter with me to Church every week.)

I, too, find Church interminable, but nevertheless religiously attend the three-hour block out of a sense of duty, and only duty, as I haven't enjoyed going to Church for well over a decade now.

During our talk, my wife told me this experience:

Earlier that day, she had gone out to a bookstore and inadvertently locked the keys in the car. She called AAA, and while she was waiting for them to show, ran into an older couple that we know. A little background on this older couple--my wife has a dear friend who is very active in Church and has a family full of active and wonderful people. The older couple my wife ran into are the parents of my wife's friend, and they are wonderful people, too.

But a few years back, this older couple left the Mormon Church and have become active in an Evangelical Church.

They do not seem out to convert anybody, but rather were concerned that my wife might think poorly of them, as other Mormons have; and my wife assured them that she does not.

The older couple shared that when they were Mormons, they were miserable; they didn't like going to Church, and they felt so burdened because even though they were asked to do so much on behalf of the Mormon Church, they never felt good enough. Now they feel free and happy being away from the Mormon Church.

The older lady put both her hands on my wife's shoulders and pressed down. Then she lifted them suddenly and said, "You feel that difference? That's how I felt after I left the Mormon Church. A big weight was lifted! Just like that!"

Now they attend a local Evangelical Church and everybody is happy there, and they have friends and enjoy participating in the worship services.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

(There is more to this story, but I think I will leave it there for now and see if there is any interest, because nothing kills a thread like an overly long OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Wow.

150+ dead in an Italian earthquake.

180+ dead in Australian bushfires.

Tens of thousands losing their homes to mortgage foreclosures and millions out of work.

And now Brother and Sister Consiglieri have to to a whole 3 hours a week without being entertained.

It really puts all that other suffering in perspective, doesn't it?

Regards,

Pahoran

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Wow.

150+ dead in an Italian earthquake.

180+ dead in Australian bushfires.

Tens of thousands losing their homes to mortgage foreclosures and millions out of work.

And now Brother and Sister Consiglieri have to to a whole 3 hours a week without being entertained.

It really puts all that other suffering in perspective, doesn't it?

Regards,

Pahoran

Pahoran,

Most of the time no one can say it like you. However, I think this was a little out of line. What good could it accomplish? Do you really think that the above post contributed anything meaningful to the discussion?

[Alf O'Mega]

Pahoran,

Most of the time no one can say it like you. However, I think this was a little out of line. What good could it accomplish? Do you really think that the above post contributed anything meaningful to the discussion?

I'd like to assume that he hasn't read the whole thread yet. I'm hopeful that he'll soften his barb when he does.

[JangoStango]

Wow.

150+ dead in an Italian earthquake.

180+ dead in Australian bushfires.

Tens of thousands losing their homes to mortgage foreclosures and millions out of work.

And now Brother and Sister Consiglieri have to to a whole 3 hours a week without being entertained.

It really puts all that other suffering in perspective, doesn't it?

Regards,

Pahoran

If only Consiglieri's wife could meet some lovely Mormons like Pahoran.