My Wife's Encounter with some Lovely Ex-Mormons

[consiglieri]

Okay, I'm going to open up here with everybody.

Last night I had a long talk with my wife, who has been a Mormon since she was 14. She finds going to Church unbearable, and has long hated Sundays for that reason. She was inactive for a number of years, but in the past 6-months or so has resumed going to Church. (During the period she was inactive, I would take our young daughter with me to Church every week.)

I, too, find Church interminable, but nevertheless religiously attend the three-hour block out of a sense of duty, and only duty, as I haven't enjoyed going to Church for well over a decade now.

During our talk, my wife told me this experience:

Earlier that day, she had gone out to a bookstore and inadvertently locked the keys in the car. She called AAA, and while she was waiting for them to show, ran into an older couple that we know. A little background on this older couple--my wife has a dear friend who is very active in Church and has a family full of active and wonderful people. The older couple my wife ran into are the parents of my wife's friend, and they are wonderful people, too.

But a few years back, this older couple left the Mormon Church and have become active in an Evangelical Church.

They do not seem out to convert anybody, but rather were concerned that my wife might think poorly of them, as other Mormons have; and my wife assured them that she does not.

The older couple shared that when they were Mormons, they were miserable; they didn't like going to Church, and they felt so burdened because even though they were asked to do so much on behalf of the Mormon Church, they never felt good enough. Now they feel free and happy being away from the Mormon Church.

The older lady put both her hands on my wife's shoulders and pressed down. Then she lifted them suddenly and said, "You feel that difference? That's how I felt after I left the Mormon Church. A big weight was lifted! Just like that!"

Now they attend a local Evangelical Church and everybody is happy there, and they have friends and enjoy participating in the worship services.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

(There is more to this story, but I think I will leave it there for now and see if there is any interest, because nothing kills a thread like an overly long OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[charity's child]

I know what they mean about the burden. There's a lot of "freedom" in removing expectations. But there is also the fact that if you don't have expectations of yourself you don't excel. Some of the happiest people in the world are street bums.

I should also mention that although I also feel burdened at times, I also know that when I attend church I am nourished and uplifted. I don't remember that happening when I attended a different church.

[ERMD]

That's a difficult situation. If the Church is true and the Brethren are inspired, then what are we to do with our callings and responsibilities? If those two conditions are indeed real, then I like President Kimball's quote, "My life is like my shoes--to be worn out in service." I see it as being similar to the Savior who gave his life for service.

The flip side is, if the Church is not true and the Brethren are not insipired, then it would certainly be more comfortable (and fun) going to another Church with professional musicians, preachers, youth ministers, etc.

[emeliza]

I think often times as LDS we forget that we have ways of easing our burdens that don't include being released from callings or attending another church that doesn't have such expectations.

Christ has told us before that He can remove our burdens from us. In fact if we are too overwhelmed often times it is because we are trying to do it all. We aren't delegating, we aren't prioritizing and we aren't going to God for help. This might sounds silly, but we all know God tends to try to find ways to humble us. Giving us too much to do is another way to humble us into remembering to ask for help from Him and others around us. It is another way to teach us that we can't do it all.

I am sometimes overburdened at Church, but usually it is when I am trying to do it alone and I am taking too much on my own shoulders and forgetting that not only did I convenant to take on others pains and burdens and mourn with them when I was baptized, but so did every other single member of the Church. If I am overburdened, I can reach out for help to those around me, especially Christ and Heavenly Father.

[RalphHolb]

Sir, what exactly makes you and your wife unhappy with the LDS church? Is it doctrinal or is it something else?

I am LDS and I know I am in the slimmist of the percentage of the LDS, but if it is docrtinal, maybe it is time for you and your wife to find some place that makes you both happy.

It's my personal (so it could be completely flawed) belief that our Lord wishes for use to worship him joyfully and with a happy heart, not with misery and dread. You can serve the Lord in many ways, maybe it is your time to do that somewhere else.

Ralph

[Jeff K.]

You and your wife will rise or fall to the kingdom you are most comfortable in.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

She tends to project doesn't she?

[Deborah]

I used to feel that weight to but it had nothing to do with the church but what I thought the church expected of me. Since then I've learned that the expectations I had were my own. I also learned to say no, even to the Bishop.

Having said that I understand how we come to believe that we aren't good enough. We see Sis Perfect doing all these things without any apparent effort. Well guess what I found out some thought I was that Sister, and I would go home an cry because I felt I couldn't do anymore. And guess what I got to know some of those other sisters, and they were just covering up their own fears.

There are a lot of expectations in the church. But what I also came to realize is that the goal is set high but the Lord really doesn't expect us to do it all at once and has told us not to run faster than we are able. We need to look at our current circumstances and obligations and decide what it is we can do now and what might have to be set aside. I have to do the same thing at work. It's called prioritizing.

The church leaders are aware of this problem and have often addressed it. We should love coming to church, which I now do. But it really is all in the attitudes we bring with us.

I can fully understand how going to another church would lift that burden; because nothing is expected of you. They have people who are paid to do all the things we do in church. We can go to church and socialize and go home and not have any further thoughts about it until the next week.

I guess it comes down to what our ultimate goal is. I think we also need to find a reason to enjoy going to church. Whether its to see that sweet elderly lady who always has a smile, or all those little babies (that's why I sit at the back). I'm not always enamored of the lessons or the talks, but I try to think about the principle that's being taught and do my own lesson in my mind.

It isn't easy being a member of this church, but it should not be so hard or so burdensome. It may be time to talk to the Bishop. Years ago my teenage son was getting all stressed out. He had a lot on his plate between school, sports and church. I took him out to lunch so we could talk about it. I told him if he can't handle it all it's ok to not do everything. He needs to decide what is really important. Just talking about it and letting him know he didn't have to do everything lifted the burden. He ended up not dropping anything but found a way to do it all.

I wish you God's blessings in dealing with this. I think most of us have at one time or the other.

[flashmax67]

I can understand those feelings, but "hates going" is a very strong word. If it was me and I would feel "hating to go to church", I would simply stop going, because if you "hate going" I dont think you believe anymore, or maybe its a huge "inconvenience to go for 3 hours" and thats why "hate to go" is used.

For me, sure the 3 hour block seems long at times, but I also get uplifted most of the time and I do feel the difference when I come home from church. Also I like to see my fellow brethren and strengthen each other and or do service projects every once in a while. Those things make me feel good and of course I still believe in the gospel.

If I miss a month of home teaching, because I am too busy, well I dont realy feel guilty because I at least gave them a call and moved on.

I just dont see the "burden" being put on ourselfs by the church. I rather think people place the burden by themselves.

[Bsix]

I'm not quite sure how to react to your post. There are several themes.

First, I don't find what the exMormon couple did nothing wrong. They expressed their true emotions and feelings in the context of a two-way conversation.

I do find it interesting that their 'witness' if you will seems to be around the enjoyment factor of going to Church. (Perhaps that is because of the context of the conversation.) It does seem that some Evangelical churches place a great deal of emphasis on the entertainment or social aspect of making a Church attractive.

As a convert to Mormonism, I found traditional Christianity to have its oppressive, tedious, and boring aspects. I think this has more to do with the human condition than doctrines.

I love being a Church-going Mormon. I feel lifted going to Church. On a regular basis I feel the spirit at Church and am moved. Are there boring teachers? Yes. Are meetings sometime tedious? Yes. Do we have too many and too long of meetings? Yes. Do I drift off occastionally at Sacrament? Yes. Do I squirm and fidget in Sunday School sometimes? Yes. Do I watch the clock in Priesthood? More than once. In other words...I am human.

Yet for all of that...I really do love going to Church and being with the other saints. I can't imagine not being a Mormon. I can't imagine not going to Church. For me, the Gospel is everything. The less than entertaining or lack of dynamicism at times is just the mundanity of life that comes with any human endevour.

But I firmly believe that what we experience at Church is often as much to do with us and our personal fire as it does with Church.

Now, I say all of this without any intent to judge anyone. I wish you well as you navigate through these issues.

Cheers,

Six

[Analytics]

I, too, find Church interminable, but nevertheless religiously attend the three-hour block out of a sense of duty, and only duty, as I haven't enjoyed going to Church for well over a decade now....

That is more or less where I was 11 years ago. My eventual train of thought was that if church was inspiring, uplifting, educational, or interesting, then it would be justifiable to go even if it wasnâ??t literally â??true.â? On the other hand, if the church was really â??trueâ?, then it would be justifiable to go even if it was interminably boring and tedious.

These discussions always remind me of Emerson. â??The objection to conforming to usages that have become dead to you is, that it scatters your force.â?

I know what they mean about the burden. There's a lot of "freedom" in removing expectations. But there is also the fact that if you don't have expectations of yourself you don't excel. Some of the happiest people in the world are street bums.

That reminds me of Emerson. â??The populace think that your rejection of popular standards is a rejection of all standard, and mere antinomianism; and the bold sensualist will use the name of philosophy to gild his crimes. But the law of consciousness abides. There are two confessionals, in one or the other of which we must be shriven. You may fulfil your round of duties by clearing yourself in the direct, or in the reflex way. Consider whether you have satisfied your relations to father, mother, cousin, neighbour, town, cat, and dog; whether any of these can upbraid you. But I may also neglect this reflex standard, and absolve me to myself. I have my own stern claims and perfect circle. It denies the name of duty to many offices that are called duties. But if I can discharge its debts, it enables me to dispense with the popular code. If any one imagines that this law is lax, let him keep its commandment one day.â?

[consiglieri]

Thanks everybody for your posts. I really appreciate them.

In order to direct this thread toward what is really going on, I will add a few comments.

First, as far as my wife is concerned, this isn't about the Church expecting too much from her. She is pretty independent (okay, very independent) and has no problem doing only as much as she wants to do.

It also isn't doctrinal. She believes the Church is true, to coin a phrase.

Her problem is that attending Church is a drab and inglorious experience . . . every time . . . all the time . . . every Sunday . . . for three hours.

She hates it.

It is because of her fiercely independent spirit that she just stopped going to Church for a number of years.

The reason she started going back to Church isn't because she likes it, but rather because of expectations she feels from her children.

I know this may sound strange, but our 21-year old daughter who is a junior at college started going inactive because of issues she has with how the LDS Church deals with women members. My wife had long talks with her about how she needed to be going to Church, which ended up "reactivating" my wife because she felt she couldn't really be telling her daughter to go to Church when she was not; in fact, I think it was kind of a quid pro quo thing; my wife would go to Church if our daughter would, too.

And so they are both going to a Church they don't enjoy or even like.

Last night, I asked my wife if she wanted to go to a different Church.

She said she didn't feel she could, not only because of our 21-year old daughter, but also because of our 24-year old son who is a senior at the Air Force Academy, who was an AP on his mission to Scotland, and who is on fire with enthusiasm for the Church.

My wife felt that if she left the Church, she would disappoint him.

My wife also felt it would be confusing to our 12-year old, who we have raised LDS.

So I am dealing with the following situation:

My wife believes the Church is true, but hates attending Church so much that she regularly tells me she "hates Sundays."

My wife would not attend Church except she feels compelled to because of her children.

As we talked, I had to muse out loud why anybody would go to Church when they hated it so much.

And so I thought I would muse out loud to you good folks on this board.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[JangoStango]

Interesting story, consiglieri.

Am I just being defensive when I understand the emoticon to mean the "lovely Ex-mormons" weren't lovely at all? Your story thus far doesn't seem to explain very well why they might be bad. They could be sincere, couldn't they?

I am interested in hearing what happens next.

[Jeff K.]

Her problem is that attending Church is a drab and inglorious experience . . . every time . . . all the time . . . every Sunday . . . for three hours.

So is breathing... And yet it gives us life.

I have attended church in four continents and I have sat through church in six languages. Many cultures have different perspectives, some African wards have amazing ward choirs that bring an interesting mix. But really, culture and what we do around the basic doctrines is window dressing to the real stuff going on. I would encourage your wife to stop judging the curtains and understand what is being shown.

It is nice to ooooh and aaahhh now and then in regards to momentary excitement. But you can't please everyone everytime and the odds are some people will never be "happy" with how something is done, regardless of the sacrifices made by others for their benefit. My advice is to shrug and tell her to get over herself. But then, I am not married to her, so I can say that without consequence.

[flashmax67]

Consig,

If its not a faith issue; Could it be the "convenience" issue, sitting there for 3 hours? She wants to be an example (which is great).

Does she feel lonely at church? Does she participate with the congregation? Does she have friends in church that she can relate too?

I think the later is important. I think we all should have identified people at church that we can relate to and often tend to talk to those people more often then others. This in turn helps us feel belonging to the church and also helps us feel better on Sundays for looking forward to go to church. (This is all the social aspect)

[captain-jack]

I used to think things were a burden, but it was because I didn't like responsibility. I got a calling as a home teacher, blew it off for a few months because I didn't feel I had time. Who could expect me to find time between 8 hours of school a week, 40 hours at work, weekends always having some family thing to attend, homework, regular church attendance, and being a father? Then, as my home teacher kept visiting me every month, I realized he was just about as busy as I am but still managed to do it. And I enjoyed having him over. I asked myself if I was taking away that from the families I was supposed to visit?

I finally grudgingly made the appointment to see a family, turns out they are good friends of ours now and we have dinner together every so often. Being a Home Teacher isn't bad at all, and I feel better when I fulfill what is asked of me. It doesn't feel like a burden when you understand the purposes of the Lord's work.

[bluebell]

Does she ever feel the spirit at home or other places?

I only ask because it seems very odd that someone who believed the church was true, could make it through literally thousands of hours of church, take the sacrament hundreds of times at least, and never once feel the spirit in a way that would make the experience pleasant, even if only for a few moments.

I certainly don't feel the spirit all the time when i'm at church, but i do feel it at least once pretty much every sunday-especially when i'm taking the sacrament and focusing on the Savior. I really can't fathom someone who, again, believed the church was true, who could not feel the spirit at all, ever, when they are at church.

It makes me wonder if something else is going on besides it just being 'boring'. It seems like you would almost have to put some effort into making church THAT completely and all encompassingly boring and devoid of the spirit for you-again-if you truly believed the church was true.

[MistyAnn0414]

Okay, I'm going to open up here with everybody.

Last night I had a long talk with my wife, who has been a Mormon since she was 14. She finds going to Church unbearable, and has long hated Sundays for that reason. She was inactive for a number of years, but in the past 6-months or so has resumed going to Church. (During the period she was inactive, I would take our young daughter with me to Church every week.)

I, too, find Church interminable, but nevertheless religiously attend the three-hour block out of a sense of duty, and only duty, as I haven't enjoyed going to Church for well over a decade now.

During our talk, my wife told me this experience:

Earlier that day, she had gone out to a bookstore and inadvertently locked the keys in the car. She called AAA, and while she was waiting for them to show, ran into an older couple that we know. A little background on this older couple--my wife has a dear friend who is very active in Church and has a family full of active and wonderful people. The older couple my wife ran into are the parents of my wife's friend, and they are wonderful people, too.

But a few years back, this older couple left the Mormon Church and have become active in an Evangelical Church.

They do not seem out to convert anybody, but rather were concerned that my wife might think poorly of them, as other Mormons have; and my wife assured them that she does not.

The older couple shared that when they were Mormons, they were miserable; they didn't like going to Church, and they felt so burdened because even though they were asked to do so much on behalf of the Mormon Church, they never felt good enough. Now they feel free and happy being away from the Mormon Church.

The older lady put both her hands on my wife's shoulders and pressed down. Then she lifted them suddenly and said, "You feel that difference? That's how I felt after I left the Mormon Church. A big weight was lifted! Just like that!"

Now they attend a local Evangelical Church and everybody is happy there, and they have friends and enjoy participating in the worship services.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

(There is more to this story, but I think I will leave it there for now and see if there is any interest, because nothing kills a thread like an overly long OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I agree with the older lady. I felt a HUGE weight off my shoulders after I left the LDS Church. In the place of that weight Jesus has given me love, freedom, liberty and grace. If you and your wife are having these feels about going to a church, this should be a red flag to you. Nobody should feel like they are in bondage to a religion. Jesus is freedom from all bondage. Whether that be sin, the law/ordinances, or controlling religions.

[ERMD]

Thanks everybody for your posts. I really appreciate them.

In order to direct this thread toward what is really going on, I will add a few comments.

First, as far as my wife is concerned, this isn't about the Church expecting too much from her. She is pretty independent (okay, very independent) and has no problem doing only as much as she wants to do.

It also isn't doctrinal. She believes the Church is true, to coin a phrase.

Her problem is that attending Church is a drab and inglorious experience . . . every time . . . all the time . . . every Sunday . . . for three hours.

She hates it.

It is because of her fiercely independent spirit that she just stopped going to Church for a number of years.

The reason she started going back to Church isn't because she likes it, but rather because of expectations she feels from her children.

I know this may sound strange, but our 21-year old daughter who is a junior at college started going inactive because of issues she has with how the LDS Church deals with women members. My wife had long talks with her about how she needed to be going to Church, which ended up "reactivating" my wife because she felt she couldn't really be telling her daughter to go to Church when she was not; in fact, I think it was kind of a quid pro quo thing; my wife would go to Church if our daughter would, too.

And so they are both going to a Church they don't enjoy or even like.

Last night, I asked my wife if she wanted to go to a different Church.

She said she didn't feel she could, not only because of our 21-year old daughter, but also because of our 24-year old son who is a senior at the Air Force Academy, who was an AP on his mission to Scotland, and who is on fire with enthusiasm for the Church.

My wife felt that if she left the Church, she would disappoint him.

My wife also felt it would be confusing to our 12-year old, who we have raised LDS.

So I am dealing with the following situation:

My wife believes the Church is true, but hates attending Church so much that she regularly tells me she "hates Sundays."

My wife would not attend Church except she feels compelled to because of her children.

As we talked, I had to muse out loud why anybody would go to Church when they hated it so much.

And so I thought I would muse out loud to you good folks on this board.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Do you and your wife have friends at Church? Do you have people with whom you can have spiritually and intellectually uplifting conversations? I know "ward shopping" isn't exactly encouraged, but is attending another ward (moving?) an option? This isn't to say you can or should "run away" from the problem, but maybe the present environment just isn't what she needs at this point in her life.

[emeliza]

Hmm...I am not sure I have much to offer on this one. There are always other things I would like to do than go to Church (mostly entertainment or because I am feeling lazy), but I always get something out of it. I enjoy the service or I enjoy the social aspects. It sort of depends on the week. Do you have a gospel principles class going right now? Maybe your wife would enjoy sitting in on that one for awhile. I know that always recharges me as I relish in the basics and the investigators. They always have such awesome questions and it isn't hearing the same ole thing. Not that I don't like GD class, but honestly we usually get into something that either is 'standard' or else doesn't interest me like it should. I went to GP for my first year. Then I went to GD for the last year year and half, but just recently I started back to the GP class. I get to meet and hang with the investigators a bit and I get to hear the basics, but also we get to hear what newer people are asking and saying.

[JangoStango]

Some people love going to church and some people dread it. Do you want to hear how I feel about it -- no, I didn't think so!

Now let consiglieri finish his story. He said there is more....

[consiglieri]

Interesting story, consiglieri.

Am I just being defensive when I understand the emoticon to mean the "lovely Ex-mormons" weren't lovely at all? Your story thus far doesn't seem to explain very well why they might be bad. They could be sincere, couldn't they?

They are both quite sincere, and quite lovely. Which is part of what makes the whole incident so perplexing.

(I confess I have been known to title threads in such a way as to garner attention, though I am usually careful to be more explicit in the actual OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Scott26.2]

Consig...thanks for sharing something that is, i'm sure, both serious and important for your family.

It's interesting to me the various modes of worship that are available in the world today. Talk about variety (my observations only): the liturgical and ritual feeling of Catholic worship, the informal and even party-like experience of Baptist worship, the tradition and ceremony of a Jewish service, not to mention the block-party feel of a non-denominational service. There seems to be something for everyone! How we choose to worship our creator and the personal rewards of such service is indeed, just that, personal. I suppose only you and your wife can fully answer and come to terms with going to a worship service that you hate.

I am more than a bit uncomfortable with the "I was freed from the mormon church and now I am happy" attitude of the individuals you mentioned in your post. As for me, I love being a church attending mormon. I find true satisfaction and fulfilment in going to church. I love the fellowship with others, I love the chance to reflect on and renew covenants, I love the chance to learn and remember the principles and doctrines of the church. I have always believed that true worship is never passive.

Consig...only the best to you and your wife at this time, it seems perhaps that you and your family are at a crossroads.

Scott26.2

[USU78]

IMNSHO, SS and RS/P meetings are extra stuff. Nothing wrong or sinful or anything similar about blowing off Sunday School and Relief Society. Not everybody's built the same.

Callings are another issue . . . and the duty to "give back" for all get. Temple covenants and all that.

USU "Feed my sheep" 78

[consiglieri]

Do you and your wife have friends at Church? Do you have people with whom you can have spiritually and intellectually uplifting conversations? I know "ward shopping" isn't exactly encouraged, but is attending another ward (moving?) an option? This isn't to say you can or should "run away" from the problem, but maybe the present environment just isn't what she needs at this point in her life.

The LDS Church seems to strictly enforce a policy of attending the ward where you live. (We have run into that in the past.)

My wife mentioned perhaps being interested in going to another stake to the north, as our entire stake is not to her liking (due to things probably too complicated to go into here . . . unless you want me to).

But she said that wouldn't be allowed.

I told her I would be happy to go with her to a ward in the stake north of here, and they wouldn't bar us from attending, though they might not "like" it.

She asked about my Gospel Doctrine class.

I told her we could go to a ward up north in the afternoon, and I could shoot over in the morning here to teach Sunday school.

She said she didn't like that idea because then everybody in our ward would think she and our daughter had gone inactive.

It is a strange situation, or perhaps not so strange.

I think it is an interesting phenomenon of continuing to attend a Church even though you dislike doing so, simply and solely because of societal pressures when, absent those societal pressures, you wouldn't go at all.

I think what makes it more interesting is she has a testimony of the Church she hates attending.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[John Williams]

I never felt burdened at church, but I do relate to never having felt "good enough." I enjoyed the sense of community and brotherhood I felt in the church, and I enjoyed serving others in my various callings. I don't think I realized until after I left that, deep down, I wasn't all that happy in the church, though I did my best to convince myself I was.

The bottom line for me was whether or not the church is true. If it's true, I'm willing to endure just about anything for the truth's sake. If it's not, there's no point in dealing with the burden your wife describes.