My Wife's Encounter with some Lovely Ex-Mormons

[dblagent007]

In my last ward, I used to love to go to Elders Quorom. We knew how to have a good laugh at about anything. Plus, one of the teachers had a penchant for cursing occasionally. Nothing spices up an Elders Quorom lesson like random insertions of "damn" or "jackass" into the lesson. I loved it.

Unfortunately, EQ in my new ward is about as interesting as watching glue dry or grass grow (luckily I'm in primary).

I am now going to see if I can write Bisho-p Peterson without it being changed to Daniel Peterson. Drum roll, please: viola! Bishop Peterson.

Edit: Uh, Consig it didn't work. Actually, I have a sneaky little method of bypassing the spirits that control this board.

Edit Again: Or maybe all those long years washing the urinals in DCP's tuscan villa finally paid off! I have finally been awarded the privilege of referring to him by his Priesthood office!!!! YES, I have finally arrived!!!!! (Now, if I could just get reassigned to the grounds crew (preferably as the manure spreader), my life would be complete.)

[emeliza]

I have to try that out now Consig. My SSCE requirements command it.

Brother Peterson

Daniel Peterson

Professor Peterson

Edit: How come for dblagent007 he could write Daniel Peterson, but when I did it (second attempt above) it changed to Daniel.

Second Edit. Maybe it is the period. Daniel Peterson.

Third Edit: Yeah I suck, but it really won't let me type in Daniel Peterson. It really does change it. That is pure craziness.

[Kevin Christensen]

FWIW, I go because I believe it. So does Shauna, which makes it easier certainly. Neither of us expect the ward to be a refuge for saints and angels, so we're not rattled when it turns out to be a refugee camp for sinners. We savor the positives we see, shrug or grump about negatives, not depending upon either extreme to define our own strides. That pace is strictly between us and God.

And we both sing with the choir, which makes for a four hour block. We've both had all sorts of callings in Wards from Utah to California to Kansas and now Bethel Park, PA. I've been taking books to meetings for decades, not just to get me past periods when I didn't get much from listening, but to have something to share. I've made it a point to have something positive and exciting to add to any lesson. Consequently, I've been doing a lot of teaching over the years.

Plus, I've watched what happens to families and friends that stop going, for whatever reason. I've never seen anything in that direction that I'd want to give to my children as their eternal inheritance. It does not just affect individuals. I start to look at family lines, like rivers. Those that continue, build into something larger, and fertilize the dry places, increasing beauty. Those that stop... leave a different landscape. One that does not blossom as a rose.

I met a fellow in Kansas, a fifth generation descendant of Joseph Smith, who had just gone inactive for what strikes me as unimpressive and unpersuasive reasons. He just let go, and stopped trying, stopped inquiring, stopped. Going for something less demanding, less agrivating, less unpopular. Just doing what he wanted, bowing to secularism like a dandelion to a puff of wind. I feel like I had an armful of pearls that he considered as worth no more than marbles, and so, didn't bother to look. Easier to just settle for the here and now.

On the other hand, I've seen other people endure astonishingly difficult trials, ongoing challenges, and feel it all meaningful, and their lives rich.

I suppose I actually love going to church nowadays. But I don't go because I love it.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Buckeye]

*** Soapbox time; I apologize in advance. ***

I'm surprised that the tone of this thread has tended towards "what am I getting out of my calling and/or church church attendance?" instead of "where would the Lord have me serve?" Folks, the hymn is not entitled "I'll Go Where You Want Me To Go So Long As Its Not Raining or Boring."

My study of scriptures has yielded very few instances where someone is called to do exactly what they would like to do. Alma did not have much fun teaching the Zoramites. Samuel's visit to Zarahemla was no picnic. Jonah was less than thrilled about going to Ninevah. Sariah would have been a lot more comfortable in her Jerusalem townhouse than on an 8 yr+ camping trip in the desert. And Eve's life was a lot better eating labor-free peaches than earning her bread by the sweat of her brow.

It seems like, for some odd reason, the Lord isn't too interested in giving us the callings we would choose. In fact, his parable of the vineyard presents quite the opposite view. Those who are called are called to labor - meaning, they will sweat under the heat of the sun covered in mud and dung, and attending to branches that bear bad fruit no matter how well you treat them.

I, for one, wish this were not the case. But it is. I also know, however, that my happiness in service is directly related to my focus. When I am focused on what I am getting out the deal (whether that deal is my marriage, my fatherhood, my mission call, my baptism, my employment, or anything else) I tend to become less satisfied and more bitter. But when I am focused on those I am serving, I find the joy and blessings promised by the Lord. (Incidently, isn't it great the Lord himself is not focused on what he is getting out of the deal? If he was, there would be no atonement.)

Lastly, it is helpful to remember that none of us returns to the Celestial Kingdom alone. We go as a family. So that guy giving the awful-boring sacrament talk, the mia maid more interested in texting her BFF than listening to your lesson, and the single mom who refuses to take her kid out to the lobby even though he's been crying for the last five minutes - yes, all those people are not stumbling blocks; they are our ticket home! The sooner we realize this, the sooner the gospel will become a joy instead of a burden.

Just like the City of Enoch, it will take us a lot of time (over a millenium if I remember correctly) to become perfected, but that perfection comes only by tumbling against one another till all our rough edges wear off. Without all the other rough stones in the barrel (Joseph and Brigham included) you have no hope of your own rough edges wearing off.

Or as an earlier post quoted Elder Holland - "DON'T GET OUT OF THE BOAT"

*** Stepping off soapbox ***

[dblagent007]

Edit: How come for dblagent007 he could write Daniel Peterson, but when I did it (second attempt above) it changed to Daniel.

You need to put in your time at one of DCP's worldwide palaces. Only then will you be worthy to do this: Bishop Peterson

[mfbukowski]

The Church is for everybody. It's true, whether we like it or not.

Moroni came to Joseph Smith even if sacrament meeting is boring, just as the law of gravity holds even if you don't think it's particularly cool.

This is why he gets the Big Bucks.

[Mudcat]

Any way we could establish the first virtual LDS Ward? Bisho-p Peterson?

I'd like to volunteer for virtual street preaching and picketing if no one else wants to do it.

[Brenda]

Plus, I've watched what happens to families and friends that stop going, for whatever reason. I've never seen anything in that direction that I'd want to give to my children as their eternal inheritance. It does not just affect individuals. I start to look at family lines, like rivers. Those that continue, build into something larger, and fertilize the dry places, increasing beauty. Those that stop... leave a different landscape. One that does not blossom as a rose.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

I've seen this also. A couple in our area were somewhat active when their children were tiny, then went inactive for 10-15 years, then reactivated. They are now temple workers, and deeply love the gospel. But two of their three grown children are completely non-active. That will follow with their grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. Huge price to pay for those 10-15 years.

[mfbukowski]

I'd like to volunteer for virtual street preaching and picketing if no one else wants to do it.

[Daniel Peterson]

Thanks, Buckeye, for getting on your soapbox above. You're exactly right.

I had lunch a while back with my bishop. He had only been in office for a few weeks so I asked him what if anything, was different. Was there anything he noticed that had changed in him. He said he felt a sense of love and compassion for the members that he never felt before.

That's been my experience, too. I like the kids in my singles ward. I even like the bad ones. A lot. It's surprising, but true.

Though I'm anything but the monster my Malevolent Stalker claims I am, I don't see myself as, by nature, a particularly affectionate person, nor as a sentimental one. I'm sociable enough, and have plenty of friends, but I actually prefer to be alone with a book. Still, with the bishop's calling comes a bishop's "mantle," and I really believe that to be true.

FWIW, I go because I believe it. . . . I suppose I actually love going to church nowadays. But I don't go because I love it.

Exactly.

[Yamaha]

Buckeye --

I think it's not unreasonable to expect spiritual fulfillment from church attendance. We're even promised that - arent' we? We expect to come home from church feeling renewed, uplifted, and ready for another week in the world.

Isn't that what the Lord would want?

[The Mean Farmer]

I am on the boat with a couple other here. I get out of Church what I put into it.

If I have read up on the Priesthood lesson and am ready to talk about it and receive teaching then the lesson usually goes well. I have little enthusiasm for 1st, or 4th Sunday lessons that I can't prepare for.

If I have read up and studied the Gospel Doctrine lesson I will invariably learn something new from the instructor or the Spirit.

Sacrament meeting - well I have my 4 hellions to deal with there so I rarely find solace there.

If I am prepared for even 1 meeting it changes my whole week.

Rough situation for you. One that I would expect my children to start battling me on, not my spouse. Good luck!

[Teancum]

The older lady put both her hands on my wife's shoulders and pressed down. Then she lifted them suddenly and said, "You feel that difference? That's how I felt after I left the Mormon Church. A big weight was lifted! Just like that!"

Now they attend a local Evangelical Church and everybody is happy there, and they have friends and enjoy participating in the worship services.

My wife said she agreed with them; that she also hates going to the Mormon Church, where basically nobody seems happy to be there, and everybody seems to be laboring under a huge burden. And she knows for sure that she is not happy there.

(There is more to this story, but I think I will leave it there for now and see if there is any interest, because nothing kills a thread like an overly long OP.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I understand that.

I have just learned to do that as an LDS person. And I disagree that nobody seems happy. The saints in my ward and stake seem quite happy for the most part.

[Buckeye]

Buckeye --

I think it's not unreasonable to expect spiritual fulfillment from church attendance. We're even promised that - arent' we? We expect to come home from church feeling renewed, uplifted, and ready for another week in the world.

Isn't that what the Lord would want?

I bolded your key point. Of course the Lord wants us to be fulfilled, but on his timetable and in his way. There were many days on my mission when I was not fulfilled. There are many Sundays when my wife comes home from church unfulfilled. I seem to recall a moment in Gethsemane when the Savior was less than fulfilled.

The question is whether we trust the Lord with our fulfillment or whether we take into our own hands by saying, for example, "Enough!, You want me to serve in the primary again? I've already been there for 20 years. Its not fulfilling." Or as CS Lewis said (paraphrasing) "In the end there are only two types of people. Those who say to the Lord 'thy will be done", and those to whom the Lord says "thy will be done."

This isn't to say we should be wholly unconcerned with our own welfare (though I'm open to that possibility), but that for some seasons in our life, "the block" may be more about what we give to others than what we get in return. Assuming it is just a sacrifice, is three hours really too large a sacrifice to make? You still have the rest of the Sabbath to find personal fulfillment.

[Kevin Christensen]

Consiglieri,

Have you thought of watching Groundhog Day together and talking about whether or not it has implications for your church experience?

Just a thought.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[William Schryver]

Buckeye --

I think it's not unreasonable to expect spiritual fulfillment from church attendance. We're even promised that - arent' we? We expect to come home from church feeling renewed, uplifted, and ready for another week in the world.

Isn't that what the Lord would want?

Certainly.

But you only extract from the experience something that your heart is prepared and willing to receive.

I would imagine that I enjoy a good, stimulating intellectual talk or discussion at church as much as anyone. And yet the most spiritual experience I have had in a long time was on a Fast Sunday not long ago when a certain member of our ward bore his testimony. He is a somewhat intellectually and physically challenged man of about 60. Notwithstanding his disabilities, he married and has raised a family. Since I have known him, he has worked as a crossing guard at a local elementary school. This man, who talks slowly, if he talks at all, and who couldn't care less about Deutero-Isaiah, the length of the scroll of Hor, or whether or not Joseph Smith used a stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, stood at that pulpit with tears in the corners of his eyes and apologized to all of us in the congregation for not being a very smart man with lots of things to say, but that he wanted everyone to know that he felt the spirit that day, and that it confirmed to him that this was the right place for him to be.

It wasn't the words he spoke that penetrated my heart, but there was an almost tangible spirit that accompanied those simple words, and it drove them into my heart with such force that I wept spontaneously at the sensation of it all.

And I left that meeting knowing that it was the right place for me to have been that day.

[Buckeye]

Consiglieri,

Have you thought of watching Groundhog Day together and talking about whether or not it has implications for your church experience?

Just a thought.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Unbelievable. I love this movie. It asks the great question "what will you do when you realize you are an eternal being?" I also love the answers 1) wordly pleasure quickly wears off, 2) serving someone for your own gratification also will fail, and 3) the only lasting joy is loving someone for their sake alone with no expectation of anything in return.

[ERMD]

Certainly.

But you only extract from the experience something that your heart is prepared and willing to receive.

I would imagine that I enjoy a good, stimulating intellectual talk or discussion at church as much as anyone. And yet the most spiritual experience I have had in a long time was on a Fast Sunday not long ago when a certain member of our ward bore his testimony. He is a somewhat intellectually and physically challenged man of about 60. Notwithstanding his disabilities, he married and has raised a family. Since I have known him, he has worked as a crossing guard at a local elementary school. This man, who talks slowly, if he talks at all, and who couldn't care less about Deutero-Isaiah, the length of the scroll of Hor, or whether or not Joseph Smith used a stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, stood at that pulpit with tears in the corners of his eyes and apologized to all of us in the congregation for not being a very smart man with lots of things to say, but that he wanted everyone to know that he felt the spirit that day, and that it confirmed to him that this was the right place for him to be.

It wasn't the words he spoke that penetrated my heart, but there was an almost tangible spirit that accompanied those simple words, and it drove them into my heart with such force that I wept spontaneously at the sensation of it all.

And I left that meeting knowing that it was the right place for me to have been that day.

Wow.

Thanks for that.

[dblagent007]

To me the bottom line is that every hour of my time is what I make of it. I am in charge of what I do, what I think, and the attitudes I have. I don't cede that to anyone. I am responsible for myself in every way, including whether I get enough enjoyment or fulfillment out of church (my threshold is pretty low). If I want more enjoyment or fulfillment, then I need to take the bull by the horns and figure out a way to make that happen.

[The Spectre]

If you ever pull it off, I for one, as a member of that certain Stake to the North (unless you were talking about crossing international boundaries into BC) would welcome you and Mrs. Consig up here with open arms.

The LDS Church seems to strictly enforce a policy of attending the ward where you live. (We have run into that in the past.)

My wife mentioned perhaps being interested in going to another stake to the north, as our entire stake is not to her liking (due to things probably too complicated to go into here . . . unless you want me to).

But she said that wouldn't be allowed.

I told her I would be happy to go with her to a ward in the stake north of here, and they wouldn't bar us from attending, though they might not "like" it.

She asked about my Gospel Doctrine class.

I told her we could go to a ward up north in the afternoon, and I could shoot over in the morning here to teach Sunday school.

She said she didn't like that idea because then everybody in our ward would think she and our daughter had gone inactive.

It is a strange situation, or perhaps not so strange.

I think it is an interesting phenomenon of continuing to attend a Church even though you dislike doing so, simply and solely because of societal pressures when, absent those societal pressures, you wouldn't go at all.

I think what makes it more interesting is she has a testimony of the Church she hates attending.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Jeff K.]

I wonder if they sit on the bench fold their arms and say "entertain me"?

[emeliza]

I wonder if they sit on the bench fold their arms and say "entertain me"?

That was rude. We know the Consig teaches. Obviously he doesn't just sit their with his arms folded and say "entertain me".

[Jeff K.]

And yet when he brings up his "teaching moments" here they are more than a little self aggrandizing. A kind of "why don't they understand me..." undertone. I can see them both sitting there wanting to be "entertained".

[mfbukowski]

Still, with the bishop's calling comes a bishop's "mantle," and I really believe that to be true.

There is no question this is true. Absolutely.

[emeliza]

And yet when he brings up his "teaching moments" here they are more than a little self aggrandizing. A kind of "why don't they understand me..." undertone. I can see them both sitting there wanting to be "entertained".

I suppose it is the same way I can see you in your ward dictating what other members are allowed to believe and if they don't how they are so much in the wrong, especially with political issues.