My Wife's Encounter with some Lovely Ex-Mormons

[John Williams]

My wife said the other day that she would consider going to another church with me, not because she thinks I want to go to another church, but because, she said, "I hate knowing that people in our ward think my husband isn't a good man because he doesn't believe."

It kind of shocked me to hear that, as I hadn't really considered that. I knew some people look down on me, but I didn't realize that they would be so obvious in their disdain to my wife.

[Sargon]

I also am usually very bored at church. I enjoyed it when I was in a position of leadership, when people depended on me to get things done. Since I was released I find Church to be quite boring. I probably am not as bored as your wife is though.

Nevertheless, I go. I believe it is true and I need to take the sacrament. I try to make Church more interesting by bringing unfamiliar books or non-LDS standard issue scriptures with me. For example, last Sunday instead of bringing my regular BoM, I brought Donald Parry's "The Book of Mormon According to Parallelistic Patterns". I enjoy the weird looks, and the opportunity to share something neat with the members. Sometimes I will bring a NIV or some other translation just for kicks. I try to find ways to spice it up.

[William Schryver]

I also suffered from church boredom. I came to see a side of people at church that seemedâ?fake". There were members who would smoke but still go to the temple, people who would go to the pew on fast Sunday and poor out their guts and ask us all to forgive them, once- fine, but every fast Sunday the same person would be up there with the same apology- honestly! I saw people be the "perfect" person at church but knew they weren't being the same at home, my old bishop use to drink beer for goodness sakes, while he was bishop!

Once something happens to you at church; you're hurt by someone, you see someone doing something they shouldn't be and they don't feel guilt, anything, you begin to feel a little discouragement and every time that memory returns or you see that person, you feel a little more discouraged, eventually your heart begins to harden and the spirit begins to leave. This is when the meetings begin to get boring. I left the church for 9 years because of this reason.

I have come to realize that I believed in the church, I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church on the earth today and who am I to reject it. Excuse me, I am not good at quoting versus but I know that I was taught: those who were never taught the gospel but would have excepted it had they been taught would be excepted into the kingdom of Christ but those who were taught and chose to ignore or not live by the gospel would have been better off to have never known- this has been expressed to me as being the greatest sin, to deny Christâ??s true church.

My suggestion is to try and soften your heart, next time you attend church, do so with an open mind and heart. Church is what we make of it- since returning to church I get ignored by my relief society sisters, I never get invited to their activities but I don't let it get me down. The people in the church aren't perfect, it's the gospel of the church that is perfect which is why I go, not for social enjoyment- though it would be a little more fun. I don't let it get me down; I go with an open heart and take in the lessons that the Holy Ghost has inspired my teachers to teach me. That is all that can be expected of us, do your best with what you are given.

If you truly find it unbearable, I suggest you speak to your bishop/branch president. Though church hopping isn't typically supported, I know that exceptions have been made to members who would otherwise fall away from the church. Honestly, it won't help if the issues that are causing your hearts to harden aren't resolved. I will keep your family in my prayers. Oh and by the way- the nice elderly couple, sure they are polite and I'm sure genuinely kind people but be warned, Satan has made his church easier to attend, by not expecting much from their members- no word of wisdom, no callings, no temples to strive worthiness for, but what will you tell Heavenly Father when he asks why you denied the truth "this church was easier and my burden lighter" ..... Just a thought.

Extremely well said, newgirl. My sincere commendation for your honesty and humility.

You're absolutely right of course: the church is filled with imperfect people. I wouldn't even be too quick to judge your former bishop who was allegedly drinking beer during his tenure. Fact is, as hard as that job is on a guy, I'm not too sure the Lord would begrudge a man knocking one back every now and then just to keep from going crazy. Either way, I'd bet you that that bishop was more conscious of his personal weaknesses than you or anyone else was, and that he was doing his all -- despite his personal demons -- to serve the ward as best he could, despite his "thorn in the flesh."

In any case, the system might have the power to transform people from bad to good and from good to better, but it's still largely dependent on the people themselves. And when it comes to spiritual progress in this life, it has been my experience that it's almost never a bullet train, but rather more like an old-time ox cart, lumbering along in the general direction of Zion, stumbling, veering a little right, then left, even halting on occasion for days, weeks, or years at a time, weak and weary, but still filled with the desire to reach Zion, and then finally pushing forward again little by little in pursuit of the dream, even when the reality falls considerably short from day to day.

[emeliza]

It kind of shocked me to hear that, as I hadn't really considered that. I knew some people look down on me, but I didn't realize that they would be so obvious in their disdain to my wife.

They might not be. Often times we tend to think everyone is talking or thinking about us behind our backs. Someone asking where her husband is and another member mentioning that he is inactive could be enough to make her feel uncomfortable or as if others are thinking poorly of you.

I know my friend who is married to a non-member has to deal with people sometimes thinking she didn't stay strong to her beliefs and wait to find someone inside the Church to marry. I am sure it irks her as well. She might even think that everyone has weird opinions on her. But to be honest, I have rarely heard anyone saying anything other than the fact that she is married to a non-member. No one has ever said they thought he wasn't a good man for it. Same with a couple friends whose spouses have gone inactive. They tell the fact that the spouse is inactive, but I haven't heard anyone mention how good or bad that makes the spouse. Of course maybe I just don't run in the gossip circle.

[ERayR]

I also suffered from church boredom. I came to see a side of people at church that seemedâ?fake". There were members who would smoke but still go to the temple, people who would go to the pew on fast Sunday and poor out their guts and ask us all to forgive them, once- fine, but every fast Sunday the same person would be up there with the same apology- honestly! I saw people be the "perfect" person at church but knew they weren't being the same at home, my old bishop use to drink beer for goodness sakes, while he was bishop!

Once something happens to you at church; you're hurt by someone, you see someone doing something they shouldn't be and they don't feel guilt, anything, you begin to feel a little discouragement and every time that memory returns or you see that person, you feel a little more discouraged, eventually your heart begins to harden and the spirit begins to leave. This is when the meetings begin to get boring. I left the church for 9 years because of this reason.

I have come to realize that I believed in the church, I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church on the earth today and who am I to reject it. Excuse me, I am not good at quoting versus but I know that I was taught: those who were never taught the gospel but would have excepted it had they been taught would be excepted into the kingdom of Christ but those who were taught and chose to ignore or not live by the gospel would have been better off to have never known- this has been expressed to me as being the greatest sin, to deny Christâ??s true church.My suggestion is to try and soften your heart, next time you attend church, do so with an open mind and heart. Church is what we make of it- since returning to church I get ignored by my relief society sisters, I never get invited to their activities but I don't let it get me down. The people in the church aren't perfect, it's the gospel of the church that is perfect which is why I go, not for social enjoyment- though it would be a little more fun. I don't let it get me down; I go with an open heart and take in the lessons that the Holy Ghost has inspired my teachers to teach me. That is all that can be expected of us, do your best with what you are given.

If you truly find it unbearable, I suggest you speak to your bishop/branch president. Though church hopping isn't typically supported, I know that exceptions have been made to members who would otherwise fall away from the church. Honestly, it won't help if the issues that are causing your hearts to harden aren't resolved. I will keep your family in my prayers. Oh and by the way- the nice elderly couple, sure they are polite and I'm sure genuinely kind people but be warned, Satan has made his church easier to attend, by not expecting much from their members- no word of wisdom, no callings, no temples to strive worthiness for, but what will you tell Heavenly Father when he asks why you denied the truth "this church was easier and my burden lighter" ..... Just a thought.

[/quote/]

My experience was very close to yours and I came to the same conclusion. My testimony had nothing to do with those I was attending with and every thing to do with the witness of truth that I had been given. That was many years ago, more than I like to think about, and now there are very few Sundays that I don't enjoy attendding church. Some of the testimonies, in testimony meeting are a little...., but I remember back many years ago and silently thank God for the opportunity to grow in the gospel and allowing me to associate with people that are working to make their lives more Christ like.

[Sargon]

My father taught me to have a testimony of the gospel, not of the church. That sustains me.

[mfbukowski]

First, as far as my wife is concerned, this isn't about the Church expecting too much from her. She is pretty independent (okay, very independent) and has no problem doing only as much as she wants to do.

It also isn't doctrinal. She believes the Church is true, to coin a phrase.

Her problem is that attending Church is a drab and inglorious experience . . . every time . . . all the time . . . every Sunday . . . for three hours.

She hates it.

I would like you to consider another way of looking at this. I understand your painful situation. This is hard to say, but please understand I mean it respectfully, kindly, and with as much compassion as I can, but sometimes tough love is called for.

Church is about obedience and personal growth. When we only do as much as we want to do, we are not growing. When we are not growing, we are not happy as human beings. We need to be stretched, often by outside forces, to make us grow. That is why we become stronger from trials.

Your wife needs to stretch herself and be obedient, because she is not happy because she is not growing. That is why she is not "getting anything out of it".

Just my opinion with very limited information,

Mark

[John Williams]

My father taught me to have a testimony of the gospel, not of the church. That sustains me.

My dad taught me the same thing.

I never really found church to be that boring, though it often was. These days I enjoy observing how people operate in church without the need to find something spiritual or uplifting. It's a different experience indeed.

[William Schryver]

My wife said the other day that she would consider going to another church with me, not because she thinks I want to go to another church, but because, she said, "I hate knowing that people in our ward think my husband isn't a good man because he doesn't believe."

It kind of shocked me to hear that, as I hadn't really considered that. I knew some people look down on me, but I didn't realize that they would be so obvious in their disdain to my wife.

What you fail to appreciate is the profound difference that there is between a disbeliever of your stripe and one like my much-admired friend Alf O'Mega.

Despite your frequent and much-labored protestations to the contrary, you are perceived as an active opponent of the restored gospel, its founding prophet, its current leadership and direction, and almost everything it stands for.

People sense that, and treat you accordingly.

Just saying ...

[Calm]

There is at least one benefit to having a chronic illness that started in my youth for me and that is I probably learned earlier than most that the Church was made for us 'men' and not me for the Church.

I learned to say "no" and choose my involvement in the Church based on what I felt was a balanced approach, I volunteered for jobs that I found rejuvenating and rejected jobs I felt would be too difficult, either emotionally or physically. I've even asked to be released from VT at times when I've felt I just didn't need that addiitional sense of responsibility right then.

Over time I have discovered that while it is certainly easier when I am not heavily involved, my life is enriched when I make the effort even when it appeared that the effort 'cost' much more than the benefit (taking an hour to get ready and for about 15 minutes, for example). I am still careful about picking what I 'invest' in and what I want to contribute to---I don't do things that I feel are 'busy work' or support people's ideas when I don't believe they are actually contributing (ie. endless meetings, activities that no one wants to do but feels it's expected of them).

You know what...I've never had a problem getting a temple recommend and while I've had a few friends read me the riot act about certain activities such as Enrichment Night (if I can't manage to sit down on the couch next to my husband to read a book or watch TV in the evenings, I'm not going to force myself to go through Hell for Enrichment), I've learned that simply holding my ground in saying 'no' won't lose me friends even if it does bewilder them at times.

You and your wife might want to sit down and examine what you find of value at Church (for awhile I just attended until the Sacrament and then went for a walk until it was time to go home) and see if emphasizing that for awhile and downplaying those things you find taxing but not rewarding as well until you find the right mix that works for you.

I believe the Gospel can best be found among the Saints so it's worth the effort to try and create your own little culture that works for you. If in the end you can't, then I hope that you two will find something that gives you joy, hope and comfort.

[John Williams]

What you fail to appreciate is the profound difference that there is between a disbeliever of your stripe and one like my much-admired friend Alf O'Mega.

Despite your frequent and much-labored protestations to the contrary, you are perceived as an active opponent of the restored gospel, its founding prophet, its current leadership and direction, and almost everything it stands for.

People sense that, and treat you accordingly.

Just saying ...

Yeah, I know. That sheep's clothing keeps coming off.

When are we going to do lunch and a beer, Will?

[Sargon]

I also am usually very bored at church. I enjoyed it when I was in a position of leadership, when people depended on me to get things done. Since I was released I find Church to be quite boring. I probably am not as bored as your wife is though.

To clarify, I think that when run right the ward meetings have the potential to fascinate me. I guess I've just been to too many half-prepared lessons (you know, the ones prepared during sacrament meeting). Because we depend on untrained, inexperienced speakers and teachers to run the show, our meetings are not very glamorous. I don't resent it, it just makes for some boring meetings.

I also blame myself. I think if I took the time to read up on the upcoming lessons I might enjoy them more.

[ERayR]

Brother Eyring told a story once about his father. He said that his father told him he had never been to a boring, uninteresting sacrament meeting. The sermons were always excellent. He said that if the speaker at the pulpit was not holding his attention he simply preached a sermon silently to himself. This way he was always rewarded with a great sacrament meeting.

I have been rewarded with some truly spiritual experiences by using Sacrament Meeting as a time to meditate and reflect. I can feel the spirit like no place else except the temple. I too have been rewarded by some very good sacrament meetings.

[John Williams]

To clarify, I think that when run right the ward meetings have the potential to fascinate me. I guess I've just been to too many half-prepared lessons (you know, the ones prepared during sacrament meeting). Because we depend on untrained, inexperienced speakers and teachers to run the show, our meetings are not very glamorous. I don't resent it, it just makes for some boring meetings.

I also blame myself. I think if I took the time to read up on the upcoming lessons I might enjoy them more.

Too bad you were in the EQ when I was in your ward. You missed out on some of my awesome HP lessons.

[Buckeye]

She could ask to be called to the nursery. I've never known anyone to be bored there.

[Sargon]

Too bad you were in the EQ when I was in your ward. You missed out on some of my awesome HP lessons.

I know! We may have been great hallway pals. The timing was all off.

[ERayR]

My wife said the other day that she would consider going to another church with me, not because she thinks I want to go to another church, but because, she said, "I hate knowing that people in our ward think my husband isn't a good man because he doesn't believe."

It kind of shocked me to hear that, as I hadn't really considered that. I knew some people look down on me, but I didn't realize that they would be so obvious in their disdain to my wife.

I used to worry what others were saying about me when I wasn't there until I found out that they were worried about what I was saying about them when they weren't around.

[Sargon]

She could ask to be called to the nursery. I've never known anyone to be bored there.

My father served in the nursery immediately preceding his call to serve as the bishop. He half-jokingly stated that serving in the nursery was excellent preparation for being bishop .

[John Williams]

I used to worry what others were saying about me when I wasn't there until I found out that they were worried about what I was saying about them when they weren't around.

To clarify, I don't care what people say about me. After all, Will thinks I'm evil incarnate, and we still like each other. I'm just surprised by what people have said to my wife's face. That's what upset her.

[William Schryver]

Yeah, I know. That sheep's clothing keeps coming off.

When are we going to do lunch and a beer, Will?

As I recall, I offered once, and you rejected the offer. You had some other pressing obligation the day I was in Provo.

Maybe you, Brent Metcalfe, and I can make it a threesome? I'll buy. I insist. In fact, bring all your hardest-core apostate friends with you. I'd love to meet them all in person. And I'm fairly confident they'd like to meet me.

No sticks, stones, or firearms, though.

[Doctor Steuss]

Captain Poopie-pants,

Although probably not kosher, one of the few things that gets me through the block (on the rare occasions that I do attend) is I always bring at least one book with me.

Perhaps this would help your wife. Or maybe you're just not giving good enough back-rubs.

[mfbukowski]

Jesus said in Mathew 11:28 ""Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest "

The true church removes burdens from people's shoulders and gives people rest.

Boy I really have to disagree with this one. Rest in Peace. There's a whole lot of time for that.

[Buckeye]

My father served in the nursery immediately preceding his call to serve as the bishop. He half-jokingly stated that serving in the nursery was excellent preparation for being bishop .

Honestly, I confess that the nursery is the one calling I aspire to. Maybe thats why I've never gotten it.

[Calm]

Bishops are never bored at church. If you are bored, you are not doing enough.

I'd say people are not doing enough of the right things. Doing more of the same stuff that you find boring is only draining, not interesting (if you don't believe me, choose the most boring task you can think of and do it until you are bored and then keep at it and see if you become less bored or more).

You can certainly end up with a feeling of accomplishment, but why not find something that gives you that and that you find interesting.

There are things that can be found to be interesting at Church---in any large group of people there is a huge variety, usually untapped unfortunately, it can take a great deal of effort, but it's worth it in my experience.

[John Williams]

As I recall, I offered once, and you rejected the offer. You had some other pressing obligation the day I was in Provo.

Yeah, I'm sorry I missed that. Next time you're in town, I'll buy.

Maybe you, Brent Metcalfe, and I can make it a threesome? I'll buy. I insist. In fact, bring all your hardest-core apostate friends with you. I'd love to meet them all in person. And I'm fairly confident they'd like to meet me.

I met Brent years ago when we both worked at Novell, but we don't know each other otherwise. I'm trying to think of any harcore apostate friends I have. Will have to think about that for a while.

No sticks, stones, or firearms, though.

You heard about the .38 I got as a gift from one of our high priests, eh?

But, the offer stands. Next time you're here or I'm down there, let's do lunch.