The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.

[lostindc]

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in exclusive negotiations to buy a City of London office building whose tenants include Lloyds Banking Group Plc, according to people with knowledge of the matter.


A subsidiary of the church, which has a multi-billion-dollar global property portfolio that encompasses malls, resorts and farmland, is close to completing a deal to buy the Alder Castle building at 10 Noble Street for about 100 million pounds ($129 million), said the people, asking not to be identified because the information is private. A fund managed by M&G Real Estate is selling the building, the people said.

Spokesmen for Property Reserve Inc., a real estate subsidiary of the church, and M&G Investments declined to comment.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-29/mormon-church-said-in-talks-on-129-million-london-office-deal?srnd=markets-vp

[Duncan]

That's awesome! The UK has some amazing members 😊

[Wade Englund]

19 minutes ago, lostindc said:

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

Everything the Church does is ultimately humanitarian aid--temporally as well as spiritually. 

Why do you ask?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

[poptart]

You know, I sat down one day and asked myself something along the same lines.  Here's my opinion, take it for what it's worth.  The Church is keeping it's future in mind.  The LDS church and their flock are the only people in US history who had extermination orders taken out on them, think about that.  During the 50's when many of the members were still into rural farming/lifestyle (Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here, just going of what I know/think I know), the rest of US Christendom, esp. Protestants were exploding as a powerbase.  It was so successful almost everyone, even Catholics started to mirror their powerbuilding and congregational growth strategies.  While they assoiciated religion with the American way and anyone who disagreed was a commie, the church kept quiet and steadily grew.  Now, the LDS church is a legit power of the land, they may well rival the Catholic Church in holdings.  People go on about how the church is greedy in demanding 10% tithe wise, what most people here don't realize is most other countries get similar donations, Germany takes about 10% by law, you don't even have a choice in the matter.

https://wwkn.de/en/about-german-taxes/church-tax-kirchensteuer/

This is also why the church in Germany can and often does so much more than they can here, they run a lot of the schools in the country side, rehab facilities and what not.  Bottom line, lots of people here want something for nothing, yet when life happens the come running to a church for help.  So many of them are strapped hence why many churches do end up closing their doors.  The LDS church has seen lots of people leave, they take their money with them.  At least LDS leadership was wise enough to see this coming and acted accordingly.  They never had the edge that mainline protestants here, they were never one of the "Approved" branches of the Christian religion, they were the outliers who knew what it was like to be hunted and hated, all that aside they probably saw the writing on the wall when divorce really started going up.  Look at the proclamation they made years ago, so many people have no idea what an amazing thing this was.  Now more than ever, a good family will more or less help you not end up homeless.  Even if you have a good job, all it takes is one dibilitating illness to wipe you out financially.

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

The LDS Churches is one of the few organizations I know of here stateside that will help their members no matter what, who else do you know of who does the same?  Deseret industries ability to mobilize and help people is amazing, they put sams club to shame in how organized they are.  Think it was one of the prophets who said, if the church can't help their members survive than they have little ground to stand on.  Not sure who it was, maybe someone here can clear that up for me. That being said, it's my opinion that it's peoples entitlement that is destroying so many of our institutions that were at one time pillars of the community, the church is one of them.  I can talk to my grandaunt and hear how the church would do so much more for the poor back in the day, there were people in her church who adopted 6 orphans and made sure they had a good childhood and shot at life, I somehow doubt your average protestant/evangelical/anglo catholic church would be as giving.  Only people I've ever known here who adopted someone elses kids, even those of a different race were LDS.  Really makes you think....

Edited April 29, 2019 by poptart

[CA Steve]

6 minutes ago, poptart said:

The LDS church and their flock are the only people in US history who had extermination orders taken out on them, think about that. 

As long as you don't count native Americans or Brigham Young's extermination order of them.

Quote

On January 31, 1850, Isaac Higbee, who had replaced John Higbee as bishop of Fort Utah, met with Governor Brigham Young, militia leader General Daniel H. Wells and the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to petition Young for a war order. He stated that all the occupants of Fort Utah were in agreement that they should go to war. Apostles Parley P. Pratt and Willard Richards argued for the killing of the Timpanogos, since losing Fort Utah would cut off communication to the southern colonies. Brigham Young also was concerned losing Fort Utah would disrupt his plans to have a route to California and occupy every fertile valley.  Brigham Young ordered an extermination campaign against the Timpanogos, with orders to kill all the Timpanogos men, but save the women and children who behaved. General Wells drafted the extermination order as Special Order No. 2 and sent them to Captain George D. Grant. In his letter, he told Grant "Take no hostile Indians as prisoners" and "let none escape but do the work up clean".

Battle at Fort Utah

 

[MiserereNobis]

12 minutes ago, poptart said:

Only people I've ever known here who adopted someone elses kids, even those of a different race were LDS.  Really makes you think....

Google Catholic Adoption Services, a part of Catholic Charities. There are a LOT of Catholic adoptions.

[let’s roll]

Looks like wise stewards adding an income property to the portfolio of a for profit entity through which the Church endeavors to multiply its temporal talents, as we are all instructed to do by scripture with respect to both temporal and spiritual talents.

[MiserereNobis]

15 minutes ago, poptart said:

The LDS church and their flock are the only people in US history who had extermination orders taken out on them, think about that.

I don't argue that there was an extermination order. However, I will argue that it wasn't carried out nor can it compare AT ALL to how Native Americans were treated by federal, state, and local governments. That bordered on genocide. Please don't try to hold up the LDS experience of persecution as being somehow greater than the Native experience because of a legal paper.

ETA: by "not carried out" I mean that the LDS were not exterminated, they were expatriated.

Edited April 29, 2019 by MiserereNobis

[lostindc]

34 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

Everything the Church does is ultimately humanitarian aid--temporally as well as spiritually. 

Why do you ask?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Hi Wade, glad to see you're back posting.

This purchase seems grand and spacious, especially since I watched the church layoff cafeteria workers and other staff at the DC temple several years ago.  These people worked hard and needed these jobs.  These laid off church members had various difficulties. 

[MiserereNobis]

8 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Google Catholic Adoption Services, a part of Catholic Charities. There are a LOT of Catholic adoptions.

Part of the reason why is because the Catholic stance on abortion. If one is going to be 100% pro-life, one should also be 100% pro-adoption. The Catholic Church and her members have tried hard to make that a reality.

[lostindc]

7 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Looks like wise stewards adding an income property to the portfolio of a for profit entity through which the Church endeavors to multiply its temporal talents, as we are all instructed to do by scripture with respect to both temporal and spiritual talents.

I guess.  I am sure there's a balance and the balance might want to swing towards supporting those in need.  I think Christ would lean that way.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

Part of the reason why is because the Catholic stance on abortion. If one is going to be 100% pro-life, one should also be 100% pro-adoption. The Catholic Church and her members have tried hard to make that a reality.

Which I admire.

Those who push for removing birth control or abortion as options, but don’t step up in terms of offering pregnant women support to balance what is being asked of them making it financially possible and healthy  are not backing their claim that life is precious to them. 

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Hi Wade, glad to see you're back posting.

This purchase seems grand and spacious, especially since I watched the church layoff cafeteria workers and other staff at the DC temple several years ago.  These people worked hard and needed these jobs.  These laid off church members had various difficulties. 

Along with janitor jobs... and probably many more become missionary jobs. Woohoo. 

[poptart]

21 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

As long as you don't count native Americans or Brigham Young's extermination order of them.

Battle at Fort Utah

 

Lol nice to know the likes of me count, moms a local from maui, natives still are despised by a lot of people.  Never forget an Irish American Catholic I knew, family came over during the potato famine yet identified with the anglo establishment, ye olde manifest destiny.

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Which I admire.

Those who push for removing birth control or abortion as options, but don’t step up in terms of offering pregnant women support to balance what is being asked of them making it financially possible and healthy  are not backing their claim that life is precious to them. 

I like how Germany handles abortion...

17 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I don't argue that there was an extermination order. However, I will argue that it wasn't carried out nor can it compare AT ALL to how Native Americans were treated by federal, state, and local governments. That bordered on genocide. Please don't try to hold up the LDS experience of persecution as being somehow greater than the Native experience because of a legal paper.

ETA: by "not carried out" I mean that the LDS were not exterminated, they were expatriated.

Se above, nice to know we count, still people out there who would love to kill us off and take what land we have.  Thank you.

19 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Google Catholic Adoption Services, a part of Catholic Charities. There are a LOT of Catholic adoptions.

Hear how in Chicago they had to shut down because they would not allow LGBT adoptions?  All for LGBT rights, what gets me is when people bash Catholic charities yet aren't willing to step up and help out.  It's almost always the same, our political grudge at someone else's expense.  That's comforting to know, saw Catholic Charities in Seattle, had a funny feeling they weren't doing so well, happy to hear it's the other way around.

Edited April 29, 2019 by poptart

[USU78]

9 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I guess.  I am sure there's a balance and the balance might want to swing towards supporting those in need.  I think Christ would lean that way.

Infrastructure, both procedural, institutional, and material, is necessary to make a serious stab at providing sustained and meaningful aid.

Material includes buildings. 

[lostindc]

Just now, USU78 said:

Infrastructure, both procedural, institutional, and material, is necessary to make a serious stab at providing sustained and meaningful aid.

Material includes buildings. 

I think we're good in that area.  Someone ventured to say that this latest investment is 3 times as much as we spend in humanitarian aid each year.  

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, lostindc said:

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

 

Don't know but its a one time purchase.  Its not like the church does this every year.

[let’s roll]

8 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I guess.  I am sure there's a balance and the balance might want to swing towards supporting those in need.  I think Christ would lean that way.

Agree.  What are your thoughts on the numbers of slaves Jesus chose to free during his mortal life as compared to how many he had the power to free (all)...or the number of poor he fed as compared to how many he had the power to feed (demonstrably all)?   How would you characterize the balance he chose? 

[Wade Englund]

24 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Hi Wade, glad to see you're back posting.

This purchase seems grand and spacious, especially since I watched the church layoff cafeteria workers and other staff at the DC temple several years ago.  These people worked hard and needed these jobs.  These laid off church members had various difficulties. 

Good to see you posting as well.

I would suspect that the number of cafeteria workers needed to serve a large office building would be much greater than the DC temple. And, that is just for starters.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[SouthernMo]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

Everything the Church does is ultimately humanitarian aid--temporally as well as spiritually. 

Why do you ask?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

I was once in the Porsche Design Store at City Creek Center in Salt Lake. There was a leather jacket there that cost $1200!

My heart still aches that I didn’t buy that jacket. Think of all the humanitarian good that would have come from that purchase...

Or, maybe we can use less hyperbole and agree that the church’s mission goes FAR beyond giving food and shelter away, and we need to be careful in judging how money is spent. BUT, maybe, just maybe, not EVERYTHING (as you say) the church does is humanitarian aid.

[Tacenda]

 

31 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Don't know but its a one time purchase.  Its not like the church does this every year.

It seems it's quite a lot, maybe not every year but every few..and there is so much that I probably didn't see, but it also includes tons of land. But I've always said, maybe the church will be able to pull the US out of a serious fall one day. So there's that.

https://journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/nebraska/mormon-land-holdings-rise/article_5de7826d-51cb-5b5a-a166-d2b3d38fd1cc.html

https://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/christianity/latter-day-saints/2002/08/mormons-plan-temple-in-manhattan.aspx

Hinckley said the church had "spent more money on real estate in New York City than on the other 63 stakes in the area combined
 

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/city-creek-center-an-economic-revitalization

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jan/30/from-book-to-boom-how-the-mormons-plan-a-city-for-500000-in-florida

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/11/12/lds-church-developer/

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865638165/Unique-LDS-temple-high-rise-apartment-project-excites-Mormons-others-in-Philadelphia.html

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/saratoga-springs/saratoga-springs-to-buy-m-of-water-for-lds-church/article_65b67334-7dbf-5ff8-b6c3-1a4d907564ce.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-01-23-ct-met-new-mormon-church-20130123-story.html

Edited April 29, 2019 by Tacenda

[USU78]

31 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I think we're good in that area.  Someone ventured to say that this latest investment is 3 times as much as we spend in humanitarian aid each year.  

Someone.

Who?

[rpn]

I will never understand the argument in the OP.   Doesn't anyone know that in order to have funds to build things, do humanitarian things, you need regular and substantial and diversified sources of revenue?    The church invests (and tries to do it responsibly and cautiously).   So that creates or supports jobs, in those communities and allows the church the flexibility to do what God wants for His children.   That is good stewardship, not anything negative.

[Jeanne]

Whoa baby...no need for clean water or help anywhere...so glad they can do this!!  Are you kidding me?🤔 

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, Wade Englund said:

Everything the Church does is ultimately humanitarian aid--temporally as well as spiritually. 

Why do you ask?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

No, you are wrong.  Being a high end real estate investment corporation has nothing to do with humanitarian aid.  Nothing at all.