mapman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 A man named John Hajicek is claiming to own a 120-page manuscript from Joseph Smith from when he lived in Palmyra. In a Facebook post about a painting of Joseph and Hyrum he acquired, he put at the bottom: Quote For those who read to the bottom of this post, yes, the rumors are true: I own a 120-page manuscript with the name of Joseph Smith on it, from when he lived in Palmyra, N.Y. (it is the oldest known Joseph Smith manuscript). But I am not taking questions. Follow me, you are going to hear more from me soon. I've never heard about him before, but his website is here. He was involved in a lawsuit with the church about an agreement to sell a historical painting to the church a few years ago. Does anyone know anything about this guy or this manuscript he says he acquired? Link to comment
ALarson Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, mapman said: A man named John Hajicek is claiming to own a 120-page manuscript from Joseph Smith from when he lived in Palmyra. In a Facebook post about a painting of Joseph and Hyrum he acquired, he put at the bottom: I've never heard about him before, but his website is here. He was involved in a lawsuit with the church about an agreement to sell a historical painting to the church a few years ago. Does anyone know anything about this guy or this manuscript he says he acquired? This is really interesting! He seems like a serious collector from reading info on his website. In doing a search, there was a thread about him over on the New Order Mormon forum (NOM) and I just read through it. It's about a copy of the Book of Mormon that belonged to Oliver Cowdery (an 1837 copy) and it supposedly has notes in it stating which parts were "stolen". I don't know anything about that, but he does travel around displaying some of his books and documents. According to that thread, he is going to come out with a documentary next year. Just search: "John Hajicek's new book aquisition" if you're interesting in reading that thread. I'm interested to see what this manuscript is too.... Edited January 30, 2019 by ALarson 3 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900011671/how-online-bidders-drove-up-the-sale-of-a-first-edition-book-of-mormon-dollar45000-in-36-minutes.html He has been known as a collector for some time. I am trying to remember where I first heard about him. Probably here. His writing style is somewhat over the top for me, so the current drama seems typical of him. Edited January 30, 2019 by Calm 3 Link to comment
katherine the great Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hope he’s not another Mark Hoffman. (I’m so jaded...) 3 Link to comment
Duncan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) I'd be interested in knowing who made these notes about the "stolen" parts, did Oliver make them or someone in like 1911 or when ever Edited January 30, 2019 by Duncan Link to comment
stemelbow Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 SO 120 pages is just a convenient coincidence? Or could is it that those lost 120 pages were written by Joseph? Link to comment
clarkgoble Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hard not to get excited given the length. Although I believe Hoffman was working on a forgery of the 116 pages. Given Don Bradley's work, if it is a 116 purported document we have something to compare it to. Further I think collectors are far less gullible about checking handwriting, paper and the like than they were in the 80's. 2 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) I found at least one of the things I remembered hearing: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/52663-my-column-in-mormon-times/?do=findComment&comment=1209016096 I was under the impression because of this and a few other things Hajicek is a Strangite. His name has come up a few times on the board in connection with Strang as well as rare items. From his website: Quote I have discovered most of the major new contributions to Mormon history in the past twenty years, and am currently working and writing on Joseph Smith Sr. and the roots of Mormonism in Vermont and New York. I preserve and place substantial discoveries from the Smith family and Book of Mormon founding witnesses with responsible private collectors and scholarly libraries. I am not Mormon exactly, and not practically a member of any regularly organized church, but I believe that the Mormon experience of Joseph Smith was earnest and just. I would like to know if the first half sentence above is accurate. Edited January 30, 2019 by Calm 2 Link to comment
mapman Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Just noticed this exchange in the comments on the Facebook post: Commenter: "will a copy of the manuscript you mentioned make it into the Joseph Smith papers project? If not I highly suggest you make copies available. I want to read it!" John Hajicek: "they don't have a reciprocal policy." C. "and therefore you don't intend to give access to the document? Will you make this document available for research?" JH. "I intend to obtain a reciprocal agreement." So it sounds like he is considering making it available to the Joseph Smith Papers Project if they can make a deal if I understand correctly. I'm not sure what a reciprocal policy means. Edited January 30, 2019 by mapman 2 Link to comment
Duncan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Honestly i'd be surprised if the 116 lost pages were even in existence, given how much time has past and heaven only knows where they have been and as far as I know there hasn't been any mention of anyone owning them or seeing them and who wouldn't want to display that or sell it? Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I'd have serious questions about the provenance of something like this. I don't know that I'd put much stock in it without a clear trail of whose hands it has passed through, when, and why. I don't know that it would merit a serious discussion before provenance has been well established. 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, mapman said: Just noticed this exchange in the comments on the Facebook post: Commenter: "will a copy of the manuscript you mentioned make it into the Joseph Smith papers project? If not I highly suggest you make copies available. I want to read it!" John Hajicek: "they don't have a reciprocal policy." C. "and therefore you don't intend to give access to the document? Will you make this document available for research?" JH. "I intend to obtain a reciprocal agreement." So it sounds like he is considering making it available to the Joseph Smith Papers Project if I understand correctly. I'm not sure what a reciprocal policy means. That is fair that you are not sure. It is pretty much nonsense in this situation. The closest I can come up with is he wants to split the profits or the rights or is demanding that they let him examine all the originals they used. More likely he is just blathering. Judging by his website he is blathering. His list of artifacts are a lot of subtle nods and winks to Church history without being exact so he cannot get called out on it. And 50,000 artifacts? That is an absurd number unless he is counting insignificant ones. I like that he says that he “momentarily” worked for a family business. I like to think his uncle realized it was a huge mistake and fired him 20 seconds into the job. His writing is pretty atrocious but he brags about all the books he has written? Yeah, I would not waste my time on this guy. He has a huckster feel to him. Link to comment
clarkgoble Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Duncan said: Honestly i'd be surprised if the 116 lost pages were even in existence, given how much time has past and heaven only knows where they have been and as far as I know there hasn't been any mention of anyone owning them or seeing them and who wouldn't want to display that or sell it? Yes, he's clearly portraying it that way but a huge dose of skepticism would meet any such formal claim. As I said people would investigate it very carefully. If he's playing "cute" with the text then you can almost guarantee it's a forgery. Anyone with the original text would know it would be worth millions at minimum. However they'd also know no one would buy it unless it was very carefully verified. 2 Link to comment
mapman Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 I'm pretty skeptical too, but he apparently has experience dealing in real artifacts, so I think it is possible he found some significant document. I think it is possible he is portraying it in a way to make it sound more exciting than it really is, as I suspect his descriptions of Oliver Cowdery's Book of Mormon are. 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, mapman said: I'm pretty skeptical too, but he apparently has experience dealing in real artifacts, so I think it is possible he found some significant document. I think it is possible he is portraying it in a way to make it sound more exciting than it really is, as I suspect his descriptions of Oliver Cowdery's Book of Mormon are. He claims to have that experience. I could write up a website like that in a weekend. I suspect most of us could. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, Duncan said: Honestly i'd be surprised if the 116 lost pages were even in existence, given how much time has past and heaven only knows where they have been and as far as I know there hasn't been any mention of anyone owning them or seeing them and who wouldn't want to display that or sell it? Still, it would be very interesting if they were to show up now. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Nehor said: He claims to have that experience. I could write up a website like that in a weekend. I suspect most of us could. He is used by Deseret News as an expert a number of times at least in the last 20 years, see here from 97 for example: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/567538/Words-of-great-price.html His involvement in an auction in 99: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/729179/Old-LDS-items-sold-at-blazing-prices.html He is a poor writer, but the drama comes across as showmanship to me rather than outright fraud. Edited January 30, 2019 by Calm 2 Link to comment
JAHS Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I have seen similar paintings like the one he shows before from Sutcliffe Maudsley (see below). I guess the one he recently discovered is another variation of existing paintings. Link to comment
Popular Post Calm Posted January 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) So a friend confirmed Hajicek is a Strangite and believes that at one time he claimed to be the leader of the Strangite church.**** As far as his collection business, sounds like he may be a mixed bag (like most people), some having good experiences with him and others not; he might be somewhat overly aggressive/ambitious in his claims and tactics at times, but generally seen as quite a nice man and very helpful. ****https://mormonbeliefs.com/melchisedec-priesthood/#HAJICEK Edited January 30, 2019 by Calm 5 Link to comment
mapman Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, Calm said: So a friend confirmed Hajicek is a Strangite and believes that at one time he claimed to be the leader of the Strangite church.**** As far as his collection business, sounds like he may be a mixed bag (like most people), some having good experiences with him and others not; he might be somewhat overly aggressive/ambitious in his claims and tactics at times, but generally seen as quite a nice man and very helpful. ****https://mormonbeliefs.com/melchisedec-priesthood/#HAJICEK Thanks Calm! Sounds like an interesting guy. Link to comment
blueglass Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I suppose Don Bradley better publish his book real quick, if this is the real manuscript that Lucy Harris sold, or lost some how. JS: "Martin - if you want to take the 116 pages so bad, you need to copy it word for word to a second manuscript and leave the original with me. Got it!" Link to comment
cinepro Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 9 hours ago, ALarson said: This is really interesting! He seems like a serious collector from reading info on his website. I remember reading up on him from years ago. It was my impression that he was independently wealthy. He was the first to publish scans of the 1st edition of the Book of Mormon online, long before the Joseph Smith Papers project. http://www.inephi.com/Search.htm 4 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, mapman said: Just noticed this exchange in the comments on the Facebook post: Commenter: "will a copy of the manuscript you mentioned make it into the Joseph Smith papers project? If not I highly suggest you make copies available. I want to read it!" John Hajicek: "they don't have a reciprocal policy." C. "and therefore you don't intend to give access to the document? Will you make this document available for research?" JH. "I intend to obtain a reciprocal agreement." So it sounds like he is considering making it available to the Joseph Smith Papers Project if they can make a deal if I understand correctly. I'm not sure what a reciprocal policy means. Given how cinepro has reminded me about his scans, I wonder if he means he gets to put all the JSP stuff on his site if JSP puts his manuscript online. Or he may just mean he gets access to everything right away rather than having to wait for the JSP to publish it ( I have heard they still have many years worth of stuff to publish). Possible definition is sharing of resources for a shared project: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/reciprocal-agreement.html Edited January 31, 2019 by Calm Link to comment
Garden Girl Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 22 hours ago, The Nehor said: Judging by his website he is blathering. His list of artifacts are a lot of subtle nods and winks to Church history without being exact so he cannot get called out on it. And 50,000 artifacts? That is an absurd number unless he is counting insignificant ones. He has a huckster feel to him. I don't like his tone... "Follow me... you are going to hear from me soon." Arrogant... GG Link to comment
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