Church news reiterates immigration stance

[SkyRock]

I happen to receive some private documents from a deceased local '80s-era stake president.  He was involved in the earliest Church effort regarding illegal immigrants (back when there were a lot less).  There were general, regional and local authorities, along with member INS officials, immigration judges,  etc. 

They discussed and studied the issue for some time.  They saw, even back then, that the federal government was rather ambivalent about enforcing immigration laws. 

They discussed at length whether undocumented could be baptized, enter the temple serve missions, and be sealed. 

They ran test programs, such as letting illegals serve missions locally. 

They determined that many illegals who didn't go on missions left the Church.  The church general leadership decided the Church was just going to ignore illegal status. 

It is now 40 years later. 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

I happen to receive some private documents from a deceased local '80s-era stake president.  He was involved in the earliest Church effort regarding illegal immigrants (back when there were a lot less).  There were general, regional and local authorities, along with member INS officials, immigration judges,  etc. 

They discussed and studied the issue for some time.  They saw, even back then, that the federal government was rather ambivalent about enforcing immigration laws. 

They discussed at length whether undocumented could be baptized, enter the temple serve missions, and be sealed. 

They ran test programs, such as letting illegals serve missions locally. 

They determined that many illegals who didn't go on missions left the Church.  The church general leadership decided the Church was just going to ignore illegal status. 

It is now 40 years later. 

Sounds like a resource for someone doing graduate research.

[The Nehor]

36 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Hate that made up info…I’d like to see the info that would allow someone to say that substantive change has not occurred at the border in the past 3 weeks.

The question is whether those troops are actually doing anything regarding the border while they are there. I doubt it.

Source: Trust me bro

I’m not convinced.  But I have a feeling if we’re patient and wait, Nehor will give us some super quality data

You think Mexico is deeply interested in border security on their northern border after moving troops there to get the US President to stop blustering? Why would they change enforcement methods or use their military as border guards? When you strongarm someone to do a performative act they don’t care about doing a good job. Nobody cares.

This is basic human behavior.

”Hey, I need you to come in on Saturday.”
”Why?”
”My boss says our hours in office are too low. Need to get them up before the end of the month.”
”What? Why? I am caught up on everything.”
”Look, just do it. We’re paying overtime. It is meaningless but it will make him happy. I don’t care what you do when you are there.”

That is the level of productivity we can expect.

[SteveO]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You think Mexico is deeply interested in border security on their northern border after moving troops there to get the US President to stop blustering? Why would they change enforcement methods or use their military as border guards? When you strongarm someone to do a performative act they don’t care about doing a good job. Nobody cares.

This is basic human behavior.

”Hey, I need you to come in on Saturday.”
”Why?”
”My boss says our hours in office are too low. Need to get them up before the end of the month.”
”What? Why? I am caught up on everything.”
”Look, just do it. We’re paying overtime. It is meaningless but it will make him happy. I don’t care what you do when you are there.”

That is the level of productivity we can expect.

Source: Trust me bro

Hey, as long as you guys can read your interpretations into geopolitics, I guess you’ll never “lose” on any one issue during the next 4 years.  It’s a very “Trumpy” thing to do 😂

 

Edited February 15, 2025 by SteveO

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

I happen to receive some private documents from a deceased local '80s-era stake president.  He was involved in the earliest Church effort regarding illegal immigrants (back when there were a lot less).  There were general, regional and local authorities, along with member INS officials, immigration judges,  etc. 

They discussed and studied the issue for some time.  They saw, even back then, that the federal government was rather ambivalent about enforcing immigration laws. 

They discussed at length whether undocumented could be baptized, enter the temple serve missions, and be sealed. 

They ran test programs, such as letting illegals serve missions locally. 

They determined that many illegals who didn't go on missions left the Church.  The church general leadership decided the Church was just going to ignore illegal status. 

It is now 40 years later. 

I remember in the early-mid 90's we had a slew of Spanish elders from other places but were living in Canada. I don't remember all the details but some could go to the MTC and some couldn't but they had to stay in Canada. IIRC they were in the process of getting citizenship, so I don't think any were illegal per se but were in the process of becoming legal so they had some sort of valid visa or their parents did

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Source: Trust me bro

Hey, as long as you guys can read your interpretations into geopolitics, I guess you’ll never “lose” on any one issue during the next 4 years.  It’s a very “Trumpy” thing to do 😂

You’re wrong. Trust me bro.

Wow, that could work for anything. Thanks, will be using this more.

Don’t drag Trumpy into this. Now you have me remembering the “I am a Virgin” t-shirt from that movie and the kid hiding that dollar-store ET after it murdered people. The only good thing to come from that movie was the MST3k version. It also brought us one of the greatest musical hits of all time: “Idiot Control”.

Here, suffer and/or laugh:

 

[The Nehor]

Oh, and now they ‘accidentally’ fired a lot of the key people in charge of maintaining out nuclear weapon stockpile out of sheer ignorance.

Under any other President this would lead to a major congressional investigation, potentially talk of impeachment, and register as a major scandal with the President firing the idiots responsible for the mistake.

When you have so many scandals and so much stupidity going on a major error jeopardizing national security is just background noise at this point. At this point it is just another day. What a circus.

[Calm]

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, and now they ‘accidentally’ fired a lot of the key people in charge of maintaining out nuclear weapon stockpile out of sheer ignorance.

Under any other President this would lead to a major congressional investigation, potentially talk of impeachment, and register as a major scandal with the President firing the idiots responsible for the mistake.

When you have so many scandals and so much stupidity going on a major error jeopardizing national security is just background noise at this point. At this point it is just another day. What a circus.

Someone failed their English vocabulary test, thinking efficiency means speedy.

[SteveO]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You’re wrong. Trust me bro.

Wow, that could work for anything. Thanks, will be using this more.

Brother, this power was always yours. I just use the extremely scientific approach of looking and pointing.  

 

Edited February 15, 2025 by SteveO

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Someone failed their English vocabulary test, thinking efficiency means speedy.

Not to mention directly taking a model of employment directly from a tech bro, where the only concerns to "efficiency" is capital management and the whims of the board/ceo's. People forget the government isn't a business. Run it like one is a really bad idea. Heck the way tech businesses and other industries run in the US has some serious problems and criticisms as well.

 

With luv 

BD

 

Edited February 15, 2025 by BlueDreams

[Chum]

47 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

taking a model of employment directly from a tech bro, where the only concerns to "efficiency" is capital management and the whims of the board/ceo's. 

We have different words for healthy and destructive sex and that helps us be super clear about the difference.  We don't have the same for efficiency. I think that's led us to a place where shareholders/investors have become behavior-altering parasites on corporations - redirecting them from productive function so they can be better consumed.

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, and now they ‘accidentally’ fired a lot of the key people in charge of maintaining out nuclear weapon stockpile out of sheer ignorance.

Under any other President this would lead to a major congressional investigation, potentially talk of impeachment, and register as a major scandal with the President firing the idiots responsible for the mistake.

When you have so many scandals and so much stupidity going on a major error jeopardizing national security is just background noise at this point. At this point it is just another day. What a circus.

Someone needs to grow a spine!!!!!

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Someone needs to grow a spine!!!!!

While a few are outspoken currently the Democrats are talking about how they are going to retake the House and the Senate in the Midterms in two years. Their cunning plan to accomplish this is to *checks notes* reach across the aisle and try to win over the middle. So the same plan as the election they just lost. More hanging out with the Cheneys I guess. No bold new initiatives or promises of what you will do if given power?

We’re doomed.

Here is a way to have a bit of a laugh at how doomed we are:

 

Edited February 15, 2025 by The Nehor

[Chum]

Constitutional Crisis is hot Google search, allofasudden. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Constitutional crisis&hl=en-US

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, Chum said:

Constitutional Crisis is hot Google search, allofasudden. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Constitutional crisis&hl=en-US

How odd!  😛 

[Teancum]

On 2/14/2025 at 8:08 PM, SteveO said:

Yeah, Mexico sent 5,000 troops to the border the following week.  Don’t get me wrong, that was probably always Mexico’s plan.  I just don’t get why they didn’t push the timetable to…I dunno, next month or something to really make it look like they played the player.

I think you seem fairly uninformed about this.

[SteveO]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

I think you seem fairly uninformed about this.

If I was, I’m certain you’d be able to be more precise in telling me differently.  Nehor seems to cope by spinning about what the Mexican government really means…while in the process of doing exactly what Trump wants.  Maybe that works for you too.  Put whatever spin you need to feel better about it.
 

I mean, seriously, whatever helps you guys deal with the next four years.  It wasn’t my mental health that went south this past November.

Edited February 17, 2025 by SteveO

[longview]

18 hours ago, Calm said:

18 hours ago, Chum said:

Constitutional Crisis is hot Google search, allofasudden. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Constitutional crisis&hl=en-US

How odd!  😛

Considering that the 10TH Amendment is being applied most vigorously for cutting out unwarranted functions of the Fed. Abolishing some and returning that which properly belongs to the states.

[Zosimus]

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

Nehor seems to cope by spinning about what the Mexican government really means…while in the process of doing exactly what Trump wants

You remember when 45 was going to force Mexico to do what he wanted and pay for the wall? How did that go?

To understand what the Mexican government really means, watch what the Mexican government does. Have you been following what Pres. Sheinbaum has been doing?

• Mexico threatens US gunmakers with fresh legal action
• Mexico's president takes aim at U.S. gunmakers if cartels are designated as terrorist groups
• Mexican president blasts US for harboring drug cartels

You can be sure that through all the bluster north of the border, the 10K troops south of the border won't be "doing exactly what Trump wants". They'll be looking for evidence of the American government and gun manufacturers not doing enough to keep American citizens from smuggling weapons to terrorist groups that operate on both sides of the US-Mexico border, and building their case that its actually American citizens that are running the fentanyl that is killing Americans. If they are feeling petty, they'll use the $10B they collect from lawsuits to build a wall keeping all those American gunrunners and drug smugglers out of Mexico

Edited February 17, 2025 by Zosimus

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, SteveO said:

If I was, I’m certain you’d be able to be more precise in telling me differently.  Nehor seems to cope by spinning about what the Mexican government really means…while in the process of doing exactly what Trump wants.  Maybe that works for you too.  Put whatever spin you need to feel better about it.
 

I mean, seriously, whatever helps you guys deal with the next four years.  It wasn’t my mental health that went south this past November.

You think the Mexican President wants to be seen as bending the knee to Trump? The logical move is to give the idiot what he wants while making it obvious that you are rolling your eyes.

If you believe Heads of State do well politically when kowtowing to other Heads of State then whatever you are smoking I hope you brought enough for the whole class.

This is politics and geopolitics 101.

[Teancum]

13 hours ago, SteveO said:

If I was, I’m certain you’d be able to be more precise in telling me differently.  Nehor seems to cope by spinning about what the Mexican government really means…while in the process of doing exactly what Trump wants.  Maybe that works for you too.  Put whatever spin you need to feel better about it.
 

I mean, seriously, whatever helps you guys deal with the next four years.  It wasn’t my mental health that went south this past November.

The point it Mexico and Canada told Trump they would do what they already committed to do. So he got nothing more from his tariff ploy.  My guess is he realized based on reactions from the American public and the markets that he had made a mistake so he lied and did his spin to make himself look good.

[SteveO]

8 hours ago, Zosimus said:

You remember when 45 was going to force Mexico to do what he wanted and pay for the wall? How did that go?

To understand what the Mexican government really means, watch what the Mexican government does. Have you been following what Pres. Sheinbaum has been doing?

• Mexico threatens US gunmakers with fresh legal action
• Mexico's president takes aim at U.S. gunmakers if cartels are designated as terrorist groups
• Mexican president blasts US for harboring drug cartels

You can be sure that through all the bluster north of the border, the 10K troops south of the border won't be "doing exactly what Trump wants". They'll be looking for evidence of the American government and gun manufacturers not doing enough to keep American citizens from smuggling weapons to terrorist groups that operate on both sides of the US-Mexico border, and building their case that its actually American citizens that are running the fentanyl that is killing Americans. If they are feeling petty, they'll use the $10B they collect from lawsuits to build a wall keeping all those American gunrunners and drug smugglers out of Mexico

 

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You think the Mexican President wants to be seen as bending the knee to Trump? The logical move is to give the idiot what he wants while making it obvious that you are rolling your eyes.

If you believe Heads of State do well politically when kowtowing to other Heads of State then whatever you are smoking I hope you brought enough for the whole class.

This is politics and geopolitics 101.

 

16 minutes ago, Teancum said:

The point it Mexico and Canada told Trump they would do what they already committed to do. So he got nothing more from his tariff ploy.  My guess is he realized based on reactions from the American public and the markets that he had made a mistake so he lied and did his spin to make himself look good.

You guys are doing great.  Like I said, whatever spin you have to tell yourselves.

Edited February 17, 2025 by SteveO

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, longview said:

Considering that the 10TH Amendment is being applied most vigorously for cutting out unwarranted functions of the Fed. Abolishing some and returning that which properly belongs to the states.

That is fine. Just do it constitutionally which it currently seems not to be.

Edited February 18, 2025 by Teancum

[Teancum]

39 minutes ago, SteveO said:

 

 

You guys are doing great.  Like I said, whatever spin you have to tell yourselves.

No spin Bro. No spin. Be careful what you cheer for though. It may come back to bite you.

[longview]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

That is fine. Just do it connotationally which it currently seems not to be.

Don't know whut u mean? I googled and got:

Dictionary

con·no·ta·tion   /ˌkänəˈtāSH(ə)n/   noun

an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning.

"the word “discipline” has unhappy connotations of punishment and repression"

Philosophy

the abstract meaning or intension of a term, which forms a principle determining which objects or concepts it applies to.

Are you saying to do it "abstractly" which the 10TH Amendment seems NOT to be "abstract" ? Please explain.