Ancestry and Descendants of the Twelve Magi, the Wise Men, the Three Kings

[nuclearfuels]

Tis the season fam, so Merry Christmas!

 

I'm seeking sources which validate and invalidate the Syriac Orthodox tradition claiming there were 12 Wise Men not 3 (the 3, IMHO, were the First Presidency of the time)

 

According to various Christian traditions, the names of the Magi are:

• Western Christian tradition: Melchior, Caspar, and Balthazar. These names are based on a 6th-century manuscript and were popularized in the 8th-century hymn "Veni Redemptor Gentium".

• Syriac Orthodox tradition: The 12 Magi are often listed with the following names: Hormizd, Yazdandar, Peroz, Hor, Basan, Karsudan, Megundar, Rashtin, Saharnaz, Mehrou, and Ahraks. (Source: "The Syriac Infancy Gospel" and other Syriac Orthodox texts)

• Armenian Apostolic tradition: The Magi are sometimes listed with the names: Kagpha, Badadilma, and Badadakhariba. (Source: "The Armenian Infancy Gospel")

• Ethiopian Orthodox tradition: The Magi are sometimes listed with the names: Hor, Karsudan, and Basan. (Source: "The Ethiopian Infancy Gospel")

Please note that these names are not universally accepted and may vary across different Christian traditions.

 

I've gathered some sources on the ancestry and descendants of the 12 Magi, including various traditions, rumors, and theories. Please note that the historicity and accuracy of these sources vary.

Verified Sources and Peer-Reviewed Research:

• Syriac Orthodox Church traditions: The Syriac Orthodox Church has maintained oral traditions about the 12 Magi, including their ancestry and descendants. However, these traditions are not well-documented in written sources. (Source: "The Syriac Orthodox Church: A Brief Introduction" by His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius Zakka I Iwas)

• Armenian Apostolic Church traditions: Similar to the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church has its own traditions about the Magi, including their ancestry and descendants. (Source: "The Armenian Apostolic Church" by Archbishop Tiran Nersoyan)

Unsubstantiated Sources, Rumors, and Theories:

• The "Book of the Bee": This 13th-century Syriac manuscript contains a list of the 12 Magi, along with their supposed ancestry and descendants. However, the accuracy of this source is uncertain. (Source: "The Book of the Bee" translated by E. A. W. Budge)

• The "Chronicle of Zuqnin": This 8th-century Syriac manuscript mentions the 12 Magi and their supposed roles in the early Christian church. However, this source is not widely accepted as historically accurate. (Source: "The Chronicle of Zuqnin" translated by A. Harrak)

• Online forums and genealogy websites: Various online forums and genealogy websites claim to provide information on the ancestry and descendants of the 12 Magi. However, these sources are often unsubstantiated and lack academic credibility.

Rumors and Theories:

• Descent from the royal families of ancient Mesopotamia: Some theories suggest that the 12 Magi were descended from the royal families of ancient Mesopotamia, such as the Assyrian or Babylonian dynasties.

• Connection to the biblical Magi: Some rumors propose that the 12 Magi were connected to the biblical Magi, such as the Magi mentioned in the book of Esther.

• Descendants among modern-day Christian communities: Some theories suggest that the descendants of the 12 Magi can be found among modern-day Christian communities in the Middle East, such as the Assyrian or Armenian communities.

[Pyreaux]

The Armenians, and Ethiopians also argue that the canonical tradition of three Magi is a simplified interpretation that stemmed from the association of three gifts. Critics of this Orthodox Church tradition point out that the number of Magi is never explicitly stated in the Bible, and mentions only three gifts, which has traditionally been interpreted as three Magi. The 12 Magi may have been a more elaborate theological embellishment or symbol to parallel Christ's future 12. Or, what would be more interesting in my mind, is the sources are traditionally unwanted evidence that Christianity grew out of ancient or regional mystic practices.

The Armenian Sources:

The Armenian "Gospel of the Infancy": This text is part of the Armenian Christian tradition and aligns with other Eastern Christian apocryphal texts that elaborate on the birth of Christ and the Magi. Armenian sources, may mention the twelve Magi or various interpretations of the visit of the wise men.

The Armenian Church's Liturgical Calendar: The Armenian Church celebrates the Feast of the Epiphany (January 6), commemorating both the baptism of Jesus and the visit of the Magi. Some Armenian liturgical texts and hymns allude to a great number of Magi, though they often retain a focus on the idea of three wise men as well.

Ethiopian Sources:

The "Kebra Nagast": This is a 14th-century Ethiopian text, though it is a national epic rather than a direct gospel account. It includes references to the "wise men" or "Magi" who came to visit the infant Jesus. While the Kebra Nagast does not focus on the exact number of Magi, it is part of the broader Ethiopian Christian tradition that sometimes elaborates on the role and symbolism of the Magi.

The Ethiopian "Infancy Gospel of Thomas": Like the Syriac and Armenian versions, the Ethiopian Church also holds a variety of apocryphal writings. Some of these texts mention the twelve Magi or present a more elaborate narrative surrounding the birth of Christ. 

Edited December 6, 2024 by Pyreaux

[The Nehor]

Suspect they were meant to be ritual magic users or astrologers that legitimize the birth of Jesus as a “big event”. Later Christianity pushed away from magic use to legitimize the miracles of Jesus and the apostles as divine and not just supernatural. This leaves the magi in an odd space.

Also the story with Herod doesn’t make much sense.

One take that makes me giggle is the Jehovah’s Witness reading that sees the magi as servants of Satan sent to get Jesus killed.

I don’t know of any texts close enough in time to the events to have any realistic chance of being an authentic record of the number or names of the magi.

[Dario_M]

This is complicated stuff. And uhm.. have this anything to do with Mormon teachings. I don't even learn this stuff on teaching hour on sunday. I think i'm going to show this topic to my stake president and ask him what this is all about. 

[Calm]

It doesn’t have anything to do with our faith besides being tied to stories of Jesus.  Nothing you need concern yourself about unless you want to.  I suspect very few Saints have even heard some think there were 12 Wise Men.  It is the first I remember hearing about it and I tend to know more of the apocryphal stories than most, though I stopped looking into them for the most part when my second child was born because she took most of my attention back then and still does 34 years later.  I was also more interested in Old Testament themes than New.

It appears Pyreaux and Nuclear and Nehor know tons more than I do.  Fun stuff.

Edited December 7, 2024 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

23 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Tis the season fam, so Merry Christmas!

Bunch a protestants... Christmas season doesn't begin until vespers on Christmas Eve and then runs until Epiphany (January 6). Ya know, the 12 days of Christmas? Right now it's Advent, not Christmas.

And don't even get me started with the chocolate advent calendars that begin on December 1st... (but of course this year it works out for all the seculars out there)

(just teasing ya'll)

 

Edited December 7, 2024 by MiserereNobis

[Pyreaux]

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Bunch a protestants... Christmas season doesn't begin until vespers on Christmas Eve and then runs until Epiphany (January 6). Ya know, the 12 days of Christmas? Right now it's Advent, not Christmas.

And don't even get me started with the chocolate advent calendars that begin on December 1st... (but of course this year it works out for all the seculars out there)

(just teasing ya'll)

I did not know that. Thats cool, I'd like to try to remember that while future vacation planning. I feel like I did a decade ago when I didn't know how Easter was determined, yet I felt its something everyone who celebrates it should know.

Edited December 7, 2024 by Pyreaux

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:13 AM, Pyreaux said:

The

Thank you again, Pyreaux. I appreciate your help. 

Bychance do you have soruces on who thier ancestors were or who thier descendant smay have been? Apocryphal, mythical, legendary, psuedipigaphical? 

[Zosimus]

On 12/8/2024 at 4:05 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Bychance do you have soruces on who thier ancestors were or who thier descendant smay have been? Apocryphal, mythical, legendary, psuedipigaphical? 

Brent Landau makes a strong case for a lost 2nd or 3rd century Greek or Syriac text as the earliest source for the accounts of the twelve magi found in the 5th century Opus Imperfectum in Matthaeum and the 8th century Chronicle of Zuqnin.

In the Chronicle of Zuqnin, the magi were not Persian/Zoroastrian magicians but were descendants of Seth in a place called Shir, a word Landau links to silk in a land adjacent to the eastern ocean. These magi were a hereditary class of priests charged with protecting the relics and texts in the Cave of Treasures as they waited for the sign of the star to appear. They knew of Christ before his birth, and Christ visited them in the Land of Shir after his death.

You can find most of Landau's research here. Annette Reed's review of Landau's publications here is also helpful.

Edited January 6, 2025 by Zosimus

[california boy]

I was living in Barcelona one Christmas season. There was a mall not far from the port where my boat was that had a large grocery store where I did my food shopping.  When Christmas came, Santa Claus was there, but not that many people paid any attention to him and there wasn't this mob of people filing the mall with Christmas shoppers.  I thought how cool that this country didn't commercialize Christmas like the U.S. does.  

Then one day, this young man shows up in a renaissance outfit complete with tights and decorative jacket.  All the sudden the children are lined up to have a chance to talk to this fellow.  I asked someone who that guy was.  They told me that he is the messenger for the three wisemen.  It is his job to bring the list of presents the children will receive on the day of Epiphany, January 6th.  Their big gift giving day is on that day.  The mall ended up filling up with shoppers, but after Christmas and stayed busy until the day of Epiphany.

Wise me that brought gifts to Christ giving gifts to children does make a whole lot more sense than some fat guy living in the north pole with flying reindeer.

[longview]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

I was living in Barcelona one Christmas season. There was a mall not far from the port where my boat was that had a large grocery store where I did my food shopping.  When Christmas came, Santa Claus was there, but not that many people paid any attention to him and there wasn't this mob of people filing the mall with Christmas shoppers.  I thought how cool that this country didn't commercialize Christmas like the U.S. does.  

Then one day, this young man shows up in a renaissance outfit complete with tights and decorative jacket.  All the sudden the children are lined up to have a chance to talk to this fellow.  I asked someone who that guy was.  They told me that he is the messenger for the three wisemen.  It is his job to bring the list of presents the children will receive on the day of Epiphany, January 6th.  Their big gift giving day is on that day.  The mall ended up filling up with shoppers, but after Christmas and stayed busy until the day of Epiphany.

Wise me that brought gifts to Christ giving gifts to children does make a whole lot more sense than some fat guy living in the north pole with flying reindeer.

Could this tradition be derived from the Moors that occupied Spain? The Koran does mention Jesus.

[webbles]

3 hours ago, longview said:

Could this tradition be derived from the Moors that occupied Spain? The Koran does mention Jesus.

The Epiphany, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_(holiday), is a decent holiday in many Christian countries and is definitely Christian.  It is the celebration of the visit of the Magi so gift giving is done on that day.  The "12 Days of Christmas" is actually the days from Christmas to Epiphany (aka, the Christmas season).  So the idea of giving gifts during the Christmas season (Christmas to Epiphany) is really old.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, longview said:

Could this tradition be derived from the Moors that occupied Spain? The Koran does mention Jesus.

Yeah I think it is more the heavy Catholic influence in the country.  But I am just guessing.  Don't really know.  I do know the Moors were only in southern Spain, never got anywhere near the Catalan area.  As Webbles mentioned.  It is us that lost the meaning to the 12 days of Christmas and just randomly placed those 12 days happening before Christmas because it fits the narrative we are used to.  Never really made sense to me why those 12 days were special.  Now I understand where it came from and why.

[teddyaware]

5 hours ago, longview said:

Could this tradition be derived from the Moors that occupied Spain? The Koran does mention Jesus.

In the parable of the Olive Tree, the Prophet Zenos testifies that in addition to the Lehites and Mulekites that there were several other parties of religious refugees who fled the Holy Land prior to the Babylonian conquest. Therefore it is my considered opinion that the Wise Men from the East were believers in Christ whose forefathers had fled to distant regions of refuge within the Lord’s olive vineyard. It’s likely that these wise men (I.e. prophets) had their own scriptures, and that their scriptures contained the prophecy of the new star that would appear at the time of birth of the Son of God. They bowed down to worship the Christ Child because they had a clear and certain understanding that the Babe they found in Bethlehem would grow up to become the atoning Savior of the world, in joyful fulfillment of their prophecies. This explanation makes the most sense to me.

Edited January 7, 2025 by teddyaware

[nuclearfuels]

On 1/6/2025 at 3:34 AM, Zosimus said:

Shir, a word Landau links to silk in a land adjacent to the eastern ocean

Great!
Thank you!
Any theories linking Shir w/ possible places near there (Mongolia/China) where the Jaredites and their barges set off from? 
 

 

[nuclearfuels]

On 1/6/2025 at 9:30 PM, teddyaware said:

Therefore it is my considered opinion that the Wise Men from the East were believers in Christ whose forefathers had fled to distant regions of refuge within the Lord’s olive vineyard

Perhaps their ancestors learned the meaning of some astrology signs from Abraham in Egypt, Daniel in Persia; Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego?

[Zosimus]

On 1/14/2025 at 10:29 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Any theories linking Shir w/ possible places near there (Mongolia/China) where the Jaredites and their barges set off from? 

Although Syriac traders and missionaries would have been more familiar with the Far East than most in the 4th to 8th centuries, they still would have got things confused. A good example of this is the toponym Shir. Brent Landau believes the word to be a cognate of ser (silk) and refers to the Serer or Seres people of Serica (China) and references a paper by G. J. Reinink titled The Land “Seiris” (Sir) and the People of Serer in Jewish and Christian Traditions. This paper discusses the land of Seiris, described by Josephus as the location of the two pillars of Seth. There is confusion about whether this refers to some location in Syria or Egypt/Ethiopia, but the conclusion is that it is a location in China. I assume this confusion to be due to (mis)understanding in those days that Egypt and Ethiopia curved around to the east to connect with China. As can be seen in most world maps based on Ptolemy's Geography.

Here's an example of a Ptolemaic map below along with labels for my two leading candidates for the location of Sir.

1. Sila - Arab historians like Masudi identified the land beyond China as a place called Sila, inhabited by Sabians (often associated with the magi tradition) who were on good terms with the people of Serica (China). Since its common to confuse the letters R and L, Serica could easily shift to Sila. Revelation of the Magi locates Sir on the eastern edge of the world opposite the eastern ocean. 

2. Egrisilla - My other idea is that Sila is also the Egrisilla from medieval magi lore. From the wiki on Caspar/Gaspar the magi: There are some who consider that Caspar's kingdom was located in the region of Egrisilla in India Superior on the peninsula that forms the eastern side of the Sinus Magnus by Johannes Schöner on his globe of 1515. On it can be seen Egrisilla Bragmanni ("Egrisilla of the Brahmans"), and in the explanatory treatise which accompanied the globe, Schöner noted: "The region of Egrisilla, in which there are Brahman Christians; there Gaspar the Magus held dominion". The phrase hic rex caspar habitavit (here lived King Caspar) is inscribed over the Golden Peninsula on the mappemonde of Andreas Walsperger made in Constance around 1448.

But regardless of the location of Sir, it does seem that the Syriac authors of Cave of Treasures and Revelation of the Magi associated the magi with the knowledge of Seth, preserved either on pillars in the Land of Seiris or in texts stored in a cave on the Mountain of Victories in the Land of Sir.

I've done a machine translation of Reinink's paper. It won't be an accurate translation, but you can get the gist.
THE LAND "SEIRIS" (SIR) AND THE PEOPLE OF SERER IN JEWISH AND CHRISTIAN TRADITIONS 

Edited January 23, 2025 by Zosimus

[Zosimus]

Found an interesting article discussing the evidence for cultural exchange between Indo-European speakers and East Asia. The author argues that an Old Sinitic (Chinese) term for magician found on some shell carvings dating to the Shang dynasty (1600-1000 BC) was borrowed from an Indo-European term related to the Persian magi:

OLD SINITIC "M y AG", OLD PERSIAN "MAGUŠ", AND ENGLISH "MAGICIAN"

There's also a section that discusses the presence of silk in Indo-European cultures dating back to the time of the Jaredites. A list of the various words for silk in Sinitic and Indo-European languages is included, providing some support for the locations of Sir (Sila) I propose above:

"Still earlier, at Sapalli-tepe in Northern Bactria, silk was identified as the material clothing the skeletons in four graves dating to around 2000 BCE. and it has also been found at other sites in Soviet Central Asia dating as far back as the sixteenth century BCE. These findings should encourage us to examine intently the words for silk in Old Sinitic (*s^°[gJ]) and Indo-European languages (Greek orjpiicov, Latin sericum, Italian seta, Spanish seda, Old Irish sila, Welsh sidan, Breton seiz, Old Norse silki, Old High German sida, serih, or silecho, Lithuanian Silkai, Lettic zids, Church Slavonic Selku, etc.; cf. Korean sir, Manchu sirghe, and Mongolian sirkek). This is assuming that both the object and the name for it may have been passed across the breadth of Asia by the same types of Iranian-speaking individuals who occupied the Asian heartland as they did in later centuries. It is curious, however, that Avestan lacks a cognate word for silk"

Edited January 28, 2025 by Zosimus

[RevTestament]

On 12/6/2024 at 7:26 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Tis the season fam, so Merry Christmas!

 

I'm seeking sources which validate and invalidate the Syriac Orthodox tradition claiming there were 12 Wise Men not 3 (the 3, IMHO, were the First Presidency of the time)

 

According to various Christian traditions, the names of the Magi are:

• Western Christian tradition: Melchior, Caspar, and Balthazar. These names are based on a 6th-century manuscript and were popularized in the 8th-century hymn "Veni Redemptor Gentium".

• Syriac Orthodox tradition: The 12 Magi are often listed with the following names: Hormizd, Yazdandar, Peroz, Hor, Basan, Karsudan, Megundar, Rashtin, Saharnaz, Mehrou, and Ahraks. (Source: "The Syriac Infancy Gospel" and other Syriac Orthodox texts)

• Armenian Apostolic tradition: The Magi are sometimes listed with the names: Kagpha, Badadilma, and Badadakhariba. (Source: "The Armenian Infancy Gospel")

• Ethiopian Orthodox tradition: The Magi are sometimes listed with the names: Hor, Karsudan, and Basan. (Source: "The Ethiopian Infancy Gospel")

Please note that these names are not universally accepted and may vary across different Christian traditions.

 

I've gathered some sources on the ancestry and descendants of the 12 Magi, including various traditions, rumors, and theories. Please note that the historicity and accuracy of these sources vary.

Verified Sources and Peer-Reviewed Research:

• Syriac Orthodox Church traditions: The Syriac Orthodox Church has maintained oral traditions about the 12 Magi, including their ancestry and descendants. However, these traditions are not well-documented in written sources. (Source: "The Syriac Orthodox Church: A Brief Introduction" by His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius Zakka I Iwas)

• Armenian Apostolic Church traditions: Similar to the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church has its own traditions about the Magi, including their ancestry and descendants. (Source: "The Armenian Apostolic Church" by Archbishop Tiran Nersoyan)

Unsubstantiated Sources, Rumors, and Theories:

• The "Book of the Bee": This 13th-century Syriac manuscript contains a list of the 12 Magi, along with their supposed ancestry and descendants. However, the accuracy of this source is uncertain. (Source: "The Book of the Bee" translated by E. A. W. Budge)

• The "Chronicle of Zuqnin": This 8th-century Syriac manuscript mentions the 12 Magi and their supposed roles in the early Christian church. However, this source is not widely accepted as historically accurate. (Source: "The Chronicle of Zuqnin" translated by A. Harrak)

• Online forums and genealogy websites: Various online forums and genealogy websites claim to provide information on the ancestry and descendants of the 12 Magi. However, these sources are often unsubstantiated and lack academic credibility.

Rumors and Theories:

• Descent from the royal families of ancient Mesopotamia: Some theories suggest that the 12 Magi were descended from the royal families of ancient Mesopotamia, such as the Assyrian or Babylonian dynasties.

• Connection to the biblical Magi: Some rumors propose that the 12 Magi were connected to the biblical Magi, such as the Magi mentioned in the book of Esther.

• Descendants among modern-day Christian communities: Some theories suggest that the descendants of the 12 Magi can be found among modern-day Christian communities in the Middle East, such as the Assyrian or Armenian communities.

In the strict sense of the word the wise men were not magi. Magi is a zoroastrian/Persian word, and they were not zoroastrian. They were Hebrews who had the book of Daniel, and knew and understood its prophecy in Daniel 9... unlike the Jews in Jerusalem who were basically apostate at the time. They were probably either Jews or Levites who descended from those who stayed behind in the area of Babylon. BTW Babylon was gone as a city, although there were houses there. The new capitol they were probably ariving from was the Parthian capital of Ctesiphon. The Parthians had actually defeated Rome in some battles, which is why Herod was so freaked out with the arrival of these men from Parthia... looking for their new king. Magi is simply a word used from Greek influence, and does not accurately reflect who these men were.

[nuclearfuels]

On 2/3/2025 at 4:05 PM, RevTestament said:

In the strict sense of the word the wise men were not magi. Magi is a zoroastrian/Persian word, and they were not zoroastrian. They were Hebrews who had the book of Daniel, and knew and understood its prophecy in Daniel 9... unlike the Jews in Jerusalem who were basically apostate at the time. They were probably either Jews or Levites who descended from those who stayed behind in the area of Babylon. BTW Babylon was gone as a city, although there were houses there. The new capitol they were probably ariving from was the Parthian capital of Ctesiphon. The Parthians had actually defeated Rome in some battles, which is why Herod was so freaked out with the arrival of these men from Parthia... looking for their new king. Magi is simply a word used from Greek influence, and does not accurately reflect who these men were.

Thank you, Rev! I appreciate your response.

When your schedule allows can you share sources on your statement? I'm planning to retrace the Wise Men's journey and if I can skip Persia/Iran and start in Baghdad, Iraq not far from Ctesiphon, that'd be preferable 

[RevTestament]

On 2/4/2025 at 9:01 PM, nuclearfuels said:

When your schedule allows can you share sources on your statement? I'm planning to retrace the Wise Men's journey and if I can skip Persia/Iran and start in Baghdad, Iraq not far from Ctesiphon, that'd be preferable 

According to the Greek writer Herodotus, the word magos was held by aristocrats of the Median nation and specifically to Zoroastrian astronomer-priests. In Herodotus' writings, the term magos usually referred to a member of the tribe of the Medes (1.101) who could interpret dreams (7.37). The Median magi had actually revolted against Darius. With the spread of Hellenism under Greek rule, magos started to be used as an adjective, meaning "magical." The Zoroastrian keepers of the eternal flame became the Magi of the Parthian religion, Zoroastrianism. The Parthians elected their kings from a council. This council was probably considered Magi("The powerful") by the Parthian people. Unfortunately, much about the Parthian Empire is lost to history as they weren't particularly literary. 

Modern readers get the idea that all the Jews returned to Jerusalem after the Babylonian  diaspora. This is far from reality. Josephus tells us that upon the return of the Jews there were not enough priests to fill all the courses of service set up by David, so the priests had to temporarily serve more than their traditional two courses during the 24 courses of the year. The numbers he gives indicate that about 1/6 of the priests returned. It is reasonable to conclude that the numbers for the rest of the Jewish population were similar, although we don't know how many may have trickled back after Jerusalem was rebuilt. This leaves a large Jewish population back in the land of Babylon, as well as probably a large portion of the lost tribes. I recall reading about Jewish communities in and near Ctesiphon, but can't tell you now where I read it. I'm sure there is plenty including Jewish sources. As to my position that the wise men came specifically from this area, that is not historically available at the moment, but the very use of the word magi leaves large hints. The path they would have taken is actually fairly well known. That would have been the King's Highway. That came down through Damascus and through the back country of the Levant. It passed East of Jerusalem and east of the Dead Sea valley, but they would have jumped off and gone through the Dead Sea valley and into Jerusalem. There was a connecting road which provided travel southward and then east into Bethlehem, which I believe was the route. However, I do not know the time of year, and if it was winter, it is possible they would have taken a shortcut across the desert from the area of Babylon to the area of Bosra in Edom, and then up to Jerusalem. There was apparently such a road, but I believe they saw His star in the east in  August, 3 BC, and I don't believe they would have traveled through the desert in that time of year, and would have taken the northern route, and would have arrived in Jerusalem when Yeshua was a young toddler in the winter.... although I have little to go by there. The fact that Herod felt it necessary to kill all males under 2 leaves a question. 

Edited March 26, 2025 by RevTestament

[RevTestament]

On 3/26/2025 at 4:46 PM, RevTestament said:

However, I do not know the time of year, and if it was winter, it is possible they would have taken a shortcut across the desert from the area of Babylon to the area of Bosra in Edom, and then up to Jerusalem. There was apparently such a road, but I believe they saw His star in the east in  August, 3 BC, and I don't believe they would have traveled through the desert in that time of year, and would have taken the northern route, and would have arrived in Jerusalem when Yeshua was a young toddler in the winter.... although I have little to go by there. The fact that Herod felt it necessary to kill all males under 2 leaves a question. 

I really should probably add that I strongly believe they probably traveled in the mid to late spring of 2 BC. There was a complete lunar eclipse in 1 BC, and from Josephus that is when Herod died. So, they very well could have taken the short cut across the dessert, and I do believe they had reason to take the short cut. So our current Julian calendar ends up being more a reflection of when Yeshua returned from Egypt, than anything to do with His birth.