A new batch of new hymns

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

He may have meant back when Sunday School was in the morning and Sacrament Meeting in the afternoon.  I don’t think you are that old.  I am though.

No, I’m not that old.   But I remember when we used to have to stay after sacrament meeting for 10 minutes so we could practice hymns in the chapel before we went to the second hour.  I don’t think it lasted very long.

[JAHS]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

He may have meant back when Sunday School was in the morning and Sacrament Meeting in the afternoon.  I don’t think you are that old.  I am though.

Yes. Back then we had priesthood meeting in the morning, go home and get the rest of the family. Then for opening exercises for Sundy School we would have the sacrament, some short 2 1/2 minutes talks and then have singing practice, then went to our classes. Sacrament meeting was in the evening.

[Nofear]

12 hours ago, JAHS said:

Some of these songs might be hard for a congregation to sing if they have never heard of the, before.

I remember many years ago during the Sunday School hour during opening exercises they would have a practice song session where the chorister would teach the congregation a new song. Yes I am that old.

We sang it on Sunday. I actually prefer Tomlin's version though.

That said, I think several of the new hymns sound much better when sung by competent musicians than when sung by the average congregant (such as myself) to the point where their kinda bad. Some of the 1985 book's hymns are much more lay-singer tolerant. We'll likely retain many of those but I suspect which ones are retained probably won't be "released" until the final hymn book is (or close to it).

[MustardSeed]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

 

So Bluebell’s reaction disagreeing with the bishop’s decision is “not an exemplary reaction” in your opinion.

What does that make your apparent disagreement with the First Presidency “rightful direction” on using the Calvinistic—in your view, but not apparently the First Presidency—Amazing Grace now in our Sacrament Meetings?

I mean, it’s a fair question.  

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/17/2024 at 5:11 AM, Calm said:

 

So Bluebell’s reaction disagreeing with the bishop’s decision is “not an exemplary reaction” in your opinion.

What does that make your apparent disagreement with the First Presidency “rightful direction” on using the Calvinistic—in your view, but not apparently the First Presidency—Amazing Grace now in our Sacrament Meetings?

My disagreement was with the Sister who ignored her bishop’s request in a sacrament meeting. I thought I made that plain.

I don’t appreciate a number of hymns - most for musical reasons, but a few for textual or doctrinal reasons. I’m sure they are on someone’s favorites list. IMO, AG hints at several Calvinistic principles: Total Depravity, Irresistible Grace, .and perhaps Unconditional  Election. You may disagree. I don’t know if John Newton had Calvinistleanings, but it is my understanding that the Anglican Church does has some Calvinistic ties..

We have had a number of discussions here about hymns folks are not fond of. Some don’t like the Joseph Smith hymns, such as “Praise to the Man” because .they feel it sounds like we worship him. “Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame.” was changed even though it apparently had First Presidency approval for years. My Mom and Dad asked the Church to remove a verse of “For the Strength of the Hills” because it included the words “where the red untutored Indian seeketh here his rude delights.” I have a good friend, a BYU professor and professional musician, who was on the selection committee for the green hymnal. He said it was one of the hardest things he had done because of the subjective nature of music and text and the personal biases of the people involved.

A suggested criteria for inclusion of a hymn is that it must be Christ-centered. I agree that that is a good qualifier, but perhaps not the only one. For example, does the popular “Hie to Kolob” qualify?  There is no reference to the Lord. While knowledgeable members like the text it could be off-putting to a visitor. For example, I believe the statement about race is inappropriate and should be replaced with something like “There is no end to grace.” (I am not opposed to grace.

Edited September 23, 2024 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/17/2024 at 4:53 AM, Calm said:

I always assumed it meant the human race, meaning no end to mankind, meaning we will all live for eternity.

But would love to know if there is an official explanation anyway.

That’s probably what a knowledgeable member would think. In addition, I think it might also refer to the race of Gods.  In either case, it could be question-worthy to a visitor ot investigator. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:25 AM, JAHS said:

Yes. Back then we had priesthood meeting in the morning, go home and get the rest of the family. Then for opening exercises for Sundy School we would have the sacrament, some short 2 1/2 minutes talks and then have singing practice, then went to our classes. Sacrament meeting was in the evening.

Made it a lot easier to keep the sabbath. day holy, though. 🙂

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

For example, I believe the statement about race is inappropriate and should be replaced with something like “There is no end to grace.” (I am not opposed to grace.

That would be beautiful 

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Made it a lot easier to keep the sabbath. day holy, though. 🙂

In one sense it helped that much of the time was devoted to church related stuff which would lead to thinking of Christ and the Father. But it also made it busier and difficult if you had to drive a significant distance. That doesn’t create a sense of holiness. Nor does the exhaustion of a parent who has been trying to get and keep their kids ready for church and quiet in the meetings all day long. And it left getting the kids ready up to Mom in most cases as Dad was off to priesthood, making it hard for Mom to get into the right mental mode. 

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Made it a lot easier to keep the sabbath. day holy, though. 🙂

I think it made it easier to keep it church related. Those may or may not be the same thing.

By cutting the meetings it allowed more time for other ways to keep it holy. 

 

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

[Re: "If You Could Hie to Kolob"] ... I believe the statement about race is inappropriate and should be replaced with something like “There is no end to grace.” (I am not opposed to grace.)

Is there any end to the Human race, however?  I don't think so.  See Moses 1:39, 2 Nephi 29:9.  (And that's what I would tell a friend who is considering joining the Church of Jesus Christ.)  [I see Calm beat me to it!  She usually does! ]

Edited September 19, 2024 by Kenngo1969

[MustardSeed]

Lots of important meetings and required activity allows for pious righteousness imo. We were just sooooo busy. 

[JAHS]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

In one sense it helped that much of the time was devoted to church related stuff which would lead to thinking of Christ and the Father. But it also made it busier and difficult if you had to drive a significant distance. That doesn’t create a sense of holiness. Nor does the exhaustion of a parent who has been trying to get and keep their kids ready for church and quiet in the meetings all day long. And it left getting the kids ready up to Mom in most cases as Dad was off to priesthood, making it hard for Mom to get into the right mental mode. 

We always ate our main meal in the afternoon after Sunday School and I remember walking in the front door and the smell of roast beef cooking in the oven. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/19/2024 at 3:32 AM, Calm said:

In one sense it helped that much of the time was devoted to church related stuff which would lead to thinking of Christ and the Father. But it also made it busier and difficult if you had to drive a significant distance. That doesn’t create a sense of holiness. Nor does the exhaustion of a parent who has been trying to get and keep their kids ready for church and quiet in the meetings all day long. And it left getting the kids ready up to Mom in most cases as Dad was off to priesthood, making it hard for Mom to get into the right mental mode. 

Yet somehow we managed and survived. Many Saints have had it much worse.  

Edited September 23, 2024 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/19/2024 at 6:59 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

Is there any end to the Human race, however?  I don't think so.  See Moses 1:39, 2 Nephi 29:9.  (And that's what I would tell a friend who is considering joining the Church of Jesus Christ.)  [I see Calm beat me to it!  She usually does! ]

I think an investigator or visitor would easily misunderstand especially if they are familiar with Church history. 

On 9/19/2024 at 2:51 PM, JAHS said:

We always ate our main meal in the afternoon after Sunday School and I remember walking in the front door and the smell of roast beef cooking in the oven. 

We usually had big chunks of homemade bread soaking in a bowl of cold milk after sacrament meeting.

Edited September 23, 2024 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

On 9/17/2024 at 7:37 AM, bluebell said:

No, I’m not that old.   But I remember when we used to have to stay after sacrament meeting for 10 minutes so we could practice hymns in the chapel before we went to the second hour.  I don’t think it lasted very long.

That sure was short lived. 

[Kenngo1969]

15 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think an investigator or visitor would easily misunderstand especially if they are familiar with Church history. 

Perhaps.

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:34 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

Perhaps.

An African American family joined our ward in Washington. The Sunday meeting at which they were to be welcomed into the ward happened also to be a missionary farewell, so there were a lot of non-ward visitors in attendance. When the bishop asked for the customary welcoming show of hands, a number of folks didn’t raise theirs. While knowledgeable members understood that what transpired procedurally was absolutely not meant to show disapproval, the newcomers were deeply offended to observe the rejection. We never saw the family again despite attempts to explain.