Permit Denied for McKinney Temple

[Amulek]

Non-update update: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240916539520/en/Town-of-Fairview-Texas-Tells-LDS-Church-“Don’t-Mess-with-Our-Community”

Quote

The Town of Fairview, Texas announced today that it will stand firm in its opposition to plans by the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints' proposal to build the 45,000 square foot temple at 65 feet high with a 173-foot spire that would tower over homes in an area zoned for residential construction. [...] 

Fairview officials hope that they can work out an agreement with the LDS church to either scale down the current plans to fit in the neighborhood or move the temple to a location in the portion of the town zoned for commercial use.

“We want to be good neighbors,” said Mayor Lessner. “But our community will not be intimidated or bullied. The familiar phrase “Don’t Mess with Texas” includes Fairview.”

So much for the familiar phrase "everything is bigger in Texas." Maybe we could just add a footnote to that: Everything is bigger in Texas.*

 

*Not valid in Fairview.

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Non-update update: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240916539520/en/Town-of-Fairview-Texas-Tells-LDS-Church-“Don’t-Mess-with-Our-Community”

So much for the familiar phrase "everything is bigger in Texas." Maybe we could just add a footnote to that: Everything is bigger in Texas.*

 

*Not valid in Fairview.

 

Do they not build religious buildings in residential zoned areas in texas?  It's weird to think of them as a commercial building.

[Amulek]

20 hours ago, bluebell said:

Do they not build religious buildings in residential zoned areas in texas?  It's weird to think of them as a commercial building.

Oh, they've got churches all over the place here in Texas. In fact, there's been a church in pretty much every neighborhood I have ever lived in.

What the mayor is pushing is this idea that there is something of a dividing line between the commercial and residential sides of town. On the East side of Highway 5 you've got the residential district and on the West side you've got the commercial district. (Note: There are businesses on the East side of town, but admittedly there aren't a lot of them.)

The city doesn't want to have big buildings on the East side of town (since it's designed to be residential), so they have said they would consider accommodating the building height if the church were to move it to a commercial zone instead - though, technically, there is still a height restriction in their commercial district, so we would still have to get an exemption for the proposed height even if we agreed to move it there.

From everything I've seen the church appears to be operating within their rights, so I don't think they will back down here. I'm not running the church obviously (thankfully), so I supposed you never know. But if neither side wants to bend, then I recon the next step will be litigation. Will keep everyone updated as things progress.

 

[Amulek]

Looks like the city is gearing up for a fight: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/faith/2024/10/16/anticipating-lawsuit-from-church-of-latter-day-saints-fairview-announces-defense-fund/

Quote

The town of Fairview has created a defense fund for legal costs in anticipation of a lawsuit from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over the town’s denial of a controversial proposed temple.

[...]

The Zoning Defense Fund, meant to protect the town’s zoning ordinances from potential litigation, is accessible through the town’s website. Donations are voluntary and nonrefundable. [...] The money will go toward “legal costs and related expenses incurred by the Town and its attorneys in defending the Town’s zoning ordinances,” according to the town website. Litigation could involve the church itself, individual members or other parties “in relation to the disputed zoning matter.”

 

And, for those who recall this item, there is an update on the individual members who had threatened to sue:

Quote

After the council’s denial, Fairview’s mayor told The Dallas Morning News editorial board his office received notice that two church members planned to file a lawsuit against the town. The planned lawsuit, which came from individuals and not the church itself, had not been filed as of mid-October, Lessner said.

 

It seems to me the tactic the town has settled on running with is what I'm going to refer to as the heckler's temper tantrum. It doesn't matter that the town is legally in the wrong here; no, if they are able to pitch a big enough fit and convince everyone they will hate the Church forever for standing up for its rights, the result is (hopefully, in their view) that the PR hit will be enough to get the Church to back down. I guess we'll see. Stay tuned for future developments as they unfold.

 

[ZealouslyStriving]

Doctrine and Covenants 75:20

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Looks like the city is gearing up for a fight: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/faith/2024/10/16/anticipating-lawsuit-from-church-of-latter-day-saints-fairview-announces-defense-fund/

 

And, for those who recall this item, there is an update on the individual members who had threatened to sue:

 

It seems to me the tactic the town has settled on running with is what I'm going to refer to as the heckler's temper tantrum. It doesn't matter that the town is legally in the wrong here; no, if they are able to pitch a big enough fit and convince everyone they will hate the Church forever for standing up for its rights, the result is (hopefully, in their view) that the PR hit will be enough to get the Church to back down. I guess we'll see. Stay tuned for future developments as they unfold.

 

Everything's bigger in Texas, even the bigotry.   

[longview]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Everything's bigger in Texas, even the bigotry.   

Maybe a stronger undercurrent is the feeling of jealousy regarding the boldness and magnificence of the Church.

[bluebell]

34 minutes ago, longview said:

Maybe a stronger undercurrent is the feeling of jealousy regarding the boldness and magnificence of the Church.

I doubt it.  They don't secretly want to be us, they believe we are going to hell.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Maybe a stronger undercurrent is the feeling of jealousy regarding the boldness and magnificence of the Church.

That reminds me of every mother that consoles her child who wasn’t invited to the birthday party. “ oh sweetie, they’re just jealous of you because you’re so beautiful.” 
 

[longview]

39 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I doubt it.  They don't secretly want to be us, they believe we are going to hell.

In that they are seriously conflicted and casting about for a more effective rebuttal.

[Amulek]

Update: Letter from the Mayor of Fairview (see below).

A couple of news outlets have headlines which intimate the Town is the one who called for mediation, but I haven't seen that confirmed in any of the articles themselves. 

According to the Dallas Morning News, mediation is set for November 18 and will be guided by former U.S. Magistrate Jeff Kaplan (bio).

Keep in mind this is a non-binding mediation meeting, and if both sides are as entrenched as they seem to be it might be a fairly short one. 

Quote

Dear Fairview Residents,

The purpose of this letter is to share an update with you on the temple proposed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).

As you know, in August your Town Council unanimously denied a conditional use permit for construction of the temple, which would be totally out of place in that portion of our community. The Church has retained attorneys and lawsuits have been threatened to pressure us into allowing construction of the 43,200-square-foot, 65-foot-tall building with a steeple and spire reaching almost 174 feet. At 174 feet, the temple would be the tallest structure in Fairview towering over a residentially-zoned area. The area has been zoned residential since at least 2007, long before the Church acquired the property.

Fairview has been a welcoming home to an LDS meetinghouse for many years. This is a zoning issue concerning the size of the new building. Equivalent to more than 16 stories high—substantially higher than the figure of Lady Liberty on the Statue of Liberty—it is massive and completely out of proportion to the residential neighborhood. It would dominate the Town’s skyline and change the character of our community. It would also establish a precedent for other future religious facilities. If the Town’s established zoning restrictions have no meaning, how much larger will the next church be?

In a good faith effort to resolve this issue without litigation the Town has met with representatives of the Church to see if we could work out an agreement that would take our citizens’ valid concerns into account. We hope to negotiate with the LDS Church to either scale down the current plans to fit in the neighborhood or move the temple to a location in the portion of the Town zoned for commercial use.

To continue to show our good faith, Town leaders have agreed to participate in non-binding mediation with Church representatives. The mediation process involves an independent third party who will try to assist both sides with resolving an issue. Mediation is almost always required by the courts in the event of a lawsuit, so by participating in this process now we are hopeful we can avoid litigation. The Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Town Manager, and Town Attorney will attend the mediation and subsequently relay any reasonable proposals to the Council.

It is important to stress that while private parties can reach a resolution through mediation, because Fairview is a municipal government any proposed agreement would only be considered in a duly-noticed public meeting by the Town Council with input from Fairview citizens. In addition, the complete zoning process would be required before approval. This would include public hearings, recommendation by the Planning and Zoning Commission and finally approval by the Town Council. At every step we will keep our citizens informed of the content of any new proposal that may be considered.

There is a great deal of evidence that the Church has modified temple designs around the world to consider local preferences. Recently in Tooele, Utah, the Church changed plans for a temple and residential development after community objections. The proposed site for the Tooele temple was moved a few miles north of the original site and the temple name changed to the Deseret Peak Temple.

There is absolutely no reason why the Church cannot respect our community’s resolve to maintain the character of our Town. The willingness to participate in good faith mediation does not change our position or commitment.

The Town Council recently approved the creation of a Zoning Defense Fund to protect the Town if there is litigation. I urge community members and any other persons who believe in our cause to consider contributing to our Zoning Defense Fund.  Details are on the Town’s website.

Henry Lessner
Mayor

 

As an aside, it continues to irk me when opponents make reference to the "size of the...building" and go on to state that it's "(e)quivalent to more than 16 stories high." No, only the steeple is that high, not the building itself.

I find this to be especially rich when they then turn around and (carefully) state that it's taller than the figure of of Lady Liberty on the Statue of Liberty. Yes, the figure of Lady Liberty is 151' tall, but it is situated on a 154' base / pedestal bringing the total height to be 305'. Sorry, but if you're going to be making comparisons like this you need to be consistent both ways. 

Also, lest we not forget, the Town had previously rejected the Church's proposal to lower the height to 158' and I'm doubtful that 7' was really the deal breaker there. 

More to come as time goes on...

 

[The Nehor]

On 10/17/2024 at 9:21 AM, longview said:

Maybe a stronger undercurrent is the feeling of jealousy regarding the boldness and magnificence of the Church.

I live in the area and definitely not.

[The Nehor]

On 11/8/2024 at 11:15 AM, Amulek said:

Update: Letter from the Mayor of Fairview (see below).

A couple of news outlets have headlines which intimate the Town is the one who called for mediation, but I haven't seen that confirmed in any of the articles themselves. 

According to the Dallas Morning News, mediation is set for November 18 and will be guided by former U.S. Magistrate Jeff Kaplan (bio).

Keep in mind this is a non-binding mediation meeting, and if both sides are as entrenched as they seem to be it might be a fairly short one. 

 

As an aside, it continues to irk me when opponents make reference to the "size of the...building" and go on to state that it's "(e)quivalent to more than 16 stories high." No, only the steeple is that high, not the building itself.

I find this to be especially rich when they then turn around and (carefully) state that it's taller than the figure of of Lady Liberty on the Statue of Liberty. Yes, the figure of Lady Liberty is 151' tall, but it is situated on a 154' base / pedestal bringing the total height to be 305'. Sorry, but if you're going to be making comparisons like this you need to be consistent both ways. 

Also, lest we not forget, the Town had previously rejected the Church's proposal to lower the height to 158' and I'm doubtful that 7' was really the deal breaker there. 

More to come as time goes on...

 

I have my doubts that mediation will work.

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I have my doubts that mediation will work.

Same. 

[Amulek]

Non-binding mediation began yesterday. Not much news just yet; here's all I've seen so far: https://www.kltv.com/2024/11/20/north-texas-town-begins-mediation-over-lds-temple/

Quote

A spokesperson for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement after mediation began with the town, "On Monday, November 18, 2024, the Church and town representatives participated in a voluntary, nonbinding mediation. The parties had productive discussions, but settlement negotiations are ongoing, and it would not be prudent to comment further at this time," said Communication Director Melissa McKneely.

Meanwhile, a spokesperson representing the town of Fairview indicated the mayor was unable to comment until he first briefed the city council.

 

I suppose "productive" could mean any number of things, so take that with a grain of salt. The discussions may have been productive in that they are moving things along in the process toward official litigation, productive in terms of coming up with a compromise plan, productive in that the neutral third-party mediator explained to the mayor his goose is cooked, or any number of other things. As always, stay tuned for more as things develop.

 

Edited November 20, 2024 by Amulek

[Calm]

Appreciate you tracking this for us.  It’s very interesting.

And let me just say I will never get involved in government (as if I have a choice now), I would go crazy having to wait to do anything.

[Amulek]

Significant compromises - promising results: https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/collin-county/fairview-mormon-church-reach-mediation-agreement-temple-construction/287-5945ea36-9243-4cdf-a95c-bfcd1ce6de04

Quote

The updated plan calls for a one-story building standing at 35 feet, a dramatic reduction from the original proposal of a 65-foot structure with a 174-foot spire. Instead of the spire, the new design features a 120-foot tower that will sit near the middle of the property. The newly proposed temple will cover approximately 30,000 square feet, smaller than the initial design of 43,000 square feet.

As indicated in the article, the agreement is not final. The Church will still need to go through the entire submission / review process with their new plan.

There is a Town Council meeting scheduled for next week. I might just need to swing by after work and see if I can attend.

 

[JustAnAustralian]

It will be interesting to see what happens if they reject the new plan. 

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

It will be interesting to see what happens if they reject the new plan. 

Yes, I'm interested in seeing what the public response is as well.

The Church brought the building height down to 35' which is the exact limit allowed by the existing residential ordinance, so they won't need to ask for a variance on that front - even though the city had previously said they would be okay with them matching the other highest church building at 42'. And it sounds like the city (or at least the mayor) is willing to compromise on the steeple height. He was firm at it being 68' max before, but it now sounds like he might be amenable to the 120' number. That's 30% smaller than what we had wanted originally, but it's a significant reduction and will bring it well under the height that had been previously approved for the (admittedly never constructed) Methodist bell tower.

If the townfolk rebel at the latest proposal and litigation ends up being the only answer, the Church may go back to something closer to their original proposal. But I guess you never know. It looks like they were willing to compromise much more than I had originally thought, so your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[Kenngo1969]

At the risk of duplication, here is the Deseret Snooze's coverage.  (Maybe S. Heber Young @Bernard Gui even wrote the story.  I dunno.  I didn't check the by line!  )

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/11/27/church-town-reach-potential-settlement-for-proposed-latter-day-saint-temple-in-fairview-texas/

[Stargazer]

 

[Tacenda]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:14 AM, Stargazer said:

 

I'm not too fond of this depiction.

[Amulek]

On 11/29/2024 at 12:53 PM, Tacenda said:

I'm not too fond of this depiction.

It appears to essentially be a knock off of the Austin temple. I don't know that I love the design, personally. I've seen other small / medium sized temples that look much better. Something like the Rome temple would be much more beautiful - though, admittedly, something like that would probably look too out of place here.

 

[The Nehor]

Texas temples seem to not rate high in aesthetics especially in the DFW area. I still think the Dallas temple is one of the least inspiring temples anywhere (basing this solely on exterior aesthetics).

[bluebell]

44 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Texas temples seem to not rate high in aesthetics especially in the DFW area. I still think the Dallas temple is one of the least inspiring temples anywhere (basing this solely on exterior aesthetics).

It can’t be worse than the Boise Idaho temple. That building looks like a Stake center.