Mormonstories audience surprisingly mostly never Mormon…

[Calm]

I would never have guessed that it was so popular with those who were not members.  I wonder what most expected when they first came to the site and why they stuck around.

 

Ps:  can anyone tell me how to shrink screenshots?
 

A friend came across this.  Hoping he notices my request for a link.

Edited March 4, 2024 by Calm

[SeekingUnderstanding]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would never have guessed that it was so popular with those who were not members.  I wonder what most expected when they first came to the site and why they stuck around.

 

Ps:  can anyone tell me how to shrink screenshots?
 

A friend came across this.  Hoping he notices my request for a link.

Go to Mormon stories podcast on youtube and click the community tab. You can read through the comments to get a feel for why people were there. 

[Calm]

Thanks, Seeking…

FYI, this is where the survey was from.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thanks, Seeking…

FYI, this is where the survey was from.

Oh sorry. I just recognized the YouTube format and thought you were asking where it was from. 

[bluebell]

Some of it probably correlates to the number of people who have never been Scientologists but watch all of Leah Remini’s “escaping Scientology” series.  Our culture loves religious drama, especially when it’s a group of people that presents themselves as mainstream. I think it fits into that conspiracy theory element that flourishes so well in our society right now.  

And maybe the other aspect is just people who were trying to learn more about the religion, and didn’t realize it was as critical as it is when they first started to participate.

It would be a bit ironic if the nonmembers that were so supportive of John Dehlin  were members of other Christian religious denominations that tend to feel very hostile towards latter-day Saints. Like evangelicals, Baptists, similar other groups.

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

I would never have guessed that it was so popular with those who were not members.  I wonder what most expected when they first came to the site and why they stuck around.

Honestly, I am not that surprised.  It takes quite a bit of stamina for an individual to perpetually define themselves as a member of community that in turn defines itself by what it is not.  This is the sine qua non of Ex-Mormonism, regardless of how this "community" is designated ("Ex-Mormon," "Post-Mormon," etc.).  John Dehlin has an ongoing financial interest in this designation, but sooner or later many (most?) people who leave the Church either stop "identifying" in this way, or else return to the Church.  Either way, the "community" ends up being comprised mostly of transients, with perpetual and die-hard "Ex-Mos" likely being a relatively small percentage.  And while the latter folks are likely more willing to pony up financial support to Dehlin on an ongoing basis, Dehlin has now built up a very large library of materials that are available for free, so I think many transients (and likely most rubbernecking folks as well) feel no need to buy the proverbial cow.

John sort of reminds me of Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite.  Rico lived perpetually in the past, "identifying" and finding value in his supposed glory days as a high school football player, long after pretty much everyone else has stopped caring.

I very much hope that folks currently estranged from the Church have a change of heart and return to it.  Alternatively, I wish them success and happiness in whatever alternative path they choose to follow.

Dehlin's schtick seems to be appealing more and more to idly curious passersby than to the ideologically "ex-Mormon" folks.  This may at least partially explain his current financial woes.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited March 4, 2024 by smac97

[Pyreaux]

I'm not at all surprised the never-Mormon crowd is the main audience of the Ex-Mormons videos. I don't think active Ex-Mormons are a very large group under the Anti-Mormonism umbrella. There are even a lot of Wannabe-Ex-Mormons that aren't studied enough on the basics to pull it off.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

There are even a lot of Wannabe-Ex-Mormons that aren't studied enough on the basics to pull it off.

I’m curious what you mean by this?

[Pyreaux]

14 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’m curious what you mean by this?

Well if you were an apologist just roaming the internet, some internet Anti-Mormons have a habit of behaving dishonestly. For instance, there have been many internet trolls that are anti-Mormon claiming to have been a member of the church, when upon further review of their knowledge by an actual member you start to realize they couldn't have been. Extremes like knowing about polygamy but not knowing about the degrees of glory, etc. Knowing the exact number of changes there are to the Book of Mormon, but not knowing much else of the book. Claiming to be taught a non-doctrine straight from the Journal of Discourses at church, highly unlikely things. When pressed they may even confess, they simply had a missionary discussion or attended a meeting once. With this experience under their belt, they read anti-Mormon literature, they assume to be prepared to win a debate, and when questioned about their expertise, they'll throw around having been a member for clout. Or they lie, I assume their arguments have been, or about to be, dismissed due to not being a member of the church, not having firsthand knowledge of the Temple, and that inspired them to do this. 

Now days there are just people who thrive on attention, “look at me” and “I’m a victim” claiming to be a demographic they are not. This wasn't just an ExMormonism only thing, since social media hits the news we see, for instance, stories of fake victims routinely crop up online in the wake of attacks or disasters, but the motivations of the hoaxers vary from financial gain to pure pranking to bizarre political point-scoring. It's hard to quantify how many, as posts are often deleted by the original posters or taken down by moderators. Currently there have been numerous cases of white leftists pretending to be victims or minorities to gain employment opportunities, credentials, and cultural caché.

The convergence came in the rise of a populist ExMormon culture and never-Mormon leftists having the church in its crosshairs since Proposition 8, there is popularity and demand for Exmormon's exit stories about how and why they left the church. There are never-Mormons willing to identify themselves as "ExMormons.” Maybe they were "cultural Mormons" or former investors, or just liars, who disagree with the Church’s stance, say on LGBT issues. and pretend to be persecuted by the church, or trying to join the ExMormon bandwagon, or arguing from authority. 

I understand the burden of proof is on me. I can't prove a negative. Probably only after you have been on the receiving end of it might you agree it's a thing. Just one thing among many weird anomalies you'd come across, like people on the right pretending to be former military. Finding just one who'd pretend to be an ExMormon that shows to me the interest Never-Members have for ExMormonism while the group is so niche.

[Teancum]

4 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Well if you were an apologist just roaming the internet, some internet Anti-Mormons have a habit of behaving dishonestly. For instance, there have been many internet trolls that are anti-Mormon claiming to have been a member of the church, when upon further review of their knowledge by an actual member you start to realize they couldn't have been. Extremes like knowing about polygamy but not knowing about the degrees of glory, etc. Knowing the exact number of changes there are to the Book of Mormon, but not knowing much else of the book. Claiming to be taught a non-doctrine straight from the Journal of Discourses at church, highly unlikely things. When pressed they may even confess, they simply had a missionary discussion or attended a meeting once. With this experience under their belt, they read anti-Mormon literature, they assume to be prepared to win a debate, and when questioned about their expertise, they'll throw around having been a member for clout. Or they lie, I assume their arguments have been, or about to be, dismissed due to not being a member of the church, not having firsthand knowledge of the Temple, and that inspired them to do this. 

Now days there are just people who thrive on attention, “look at me” and “I’m a victim” claiming to be a demographic they are not. This wasn't just an ExMormonism only thing, since social media hits the news we see, for instance, stories of fake victims routinely crop up online in the wake of attacks or disasters, but the motivations of the hoaxers vary from financial gain to pure pranking to bizarre political point-scoring. It's hard to quantify how many, as posts are often deleted by the original posters or taken down by moderators. Currently there have been numerous cases of white leftists pretending to be victims or minorities to gain employment opportunities, credentials, and cultural caché.

The convergence came in the rise of a populist ExMormon culture and never-Mormon leftists having the church in its crosshairs since Proposition 8, there is popularity and demand for Exmormon's exit stories about how and why they left the church. There are never-Mormons willing to identify themselves as "ExMormons.” Maybe they were "cultural Mormons" or former investors, or just liars, who disagree with the Church’s stance, say on LGBT issues. and pretend to be persecuted by the church, or trying to join the ExMormon bandwagon, or arguing from authority. 

I understand the burden of proof is on me. I can't prove a negative. Probably only after you have been on the receiving end of it might you agree it's a thing. Just one thing among many weird anomalies you'd come across, like people on the right pretending to be former military. Finding just one who'd pretend to be an ExMormon that shows to me the interest Never-Members have for ExMormonism while the group is so niche.

Sounds like a finally weaved conspiracy theory to me.  You are right. The proof is on you. Call me skeptical.

[Pyreaux]

43 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Sounds like a finally weaved conspiracy theory to me.  You are right. The proof is on you. Call me skeptical.

You've been around the block at time or two, right? I'm sure you've seen members not knowing what they are talking about, but have you never seen an ExMormon that didn't know what he was talking about? If yes, among them were there ever ones that flubbed information so badly that you questioned their bona fides?

Edited March 5, 2024 by Pyreaux

[Teancum]

1 minute ago, Pyreaux said:

You've been around the block at time or two, right? You've seen members not knowing what they are talking about? But have you never seen an ExMormon that didn't know what he was talking about, ever? If yes, among them were there ever ones that flubbed information so badly that you questioned their bona fides?

Yes I have seen a few.  But not excessively. 

[carbon dioxide]

When someone is happy that they feel they have moved to something better, they usually will not spend much time with what they left.  When people convert to the church, they don't seem to spend too much time keeping up with their old religion as much.  I would think those who leave the Church also want to focus on where they are now and where they are going than waste time focusing on church stuff.  So it does not surprise me too much.  There is a group of ex lds who like drama and perhaps will spend some time watching stuff like Mormon stories but after a while, they are just going to get tired of it.  Also is there really anything new being said on Mormon stories?  After a thousand  or so  podcasts, I would think pretty much every topic John has wanted to address has been done to death. 

Edited March 5, 2024 by carbon dioxide

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

When someone is happy that they feel they have moved to something better, they usually will not spend much time with what they left.

CFR

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

When someone is happy that they feel they have moved to something better, they usually will not spend much time with what they left. 

That is not how humans work.

[Mudcat]

A lot of people just like to see people overcome their upbringing, circumstances, addictions and so forth. There are some who just see "religion" in general as something to overcome or perhaps the LDS faith, in particular. 

I do think a chunk of that 61% likely wants to observe the pressure points that seemed effective for some folks.  Tools for counterinsurgency and that sort of thing.....

Also, I would guess possibly a number of that 61% may actually  be in the active church category and just don't want to click that button for some reason.

 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Mudcat

[InCognitus]

On 3/4/2024 at 11:31 AM, Calm said:

I would never have guessed that it was so popular with those who were not members.  I wonder what most expected when they first came to the site and why they stuck around.

 

Ps:  can anyone tell me how to shrink screenshots?
 

A friend came across this.  Hoping he notices my request for a link.

I wonder if any of the people who responded to the survey said they had "never been a member of the Mormon church" because there is really no such thing as "the Mormon church"? 

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Mudcat said:

A lot of people just like to see people overcome their upbringing, circumstances, addictions and so forth. There are some who just see "religion" in general as something to overcome or perhaps the LDS faith, in particular. 

I do think a chunk of that 61% likely wants to observe the pressure points that seemed effective for some folks.  Tools for counterinsurgency and that sort of thing.....

Also, I would guess possibly a number of that 61% may actually  be in the active church category and just don't want to click that button for some reason.

 

From the comments there were a number of former conservative Evangelical/Fundamentalist members who saw similarities in the Mormon stories’ discussions to their own upbringing, though I wonder why they get involved in discussions about a similar scenario instead of their actual background….perhaps they do both or perhaps discussions of their own personal and cultural history is too uncomfortable or even painful if their leaving their former church was somewhat traumatic.  Or perhaps they are looking for insights and might see the different, but similar in their view perspective as a source of new ideas.

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I wonder if any of the people who responded to the survey said they had "never been a member of the Mormon church" because there is really no such thing as "the Mormon church"? 

I doubt if many former members care that much about not using the nickname, but perhaps there were some.

[california boy]

It would be interesting to me to see where these people that took the survey live.  In California, I rarely hear anyone ever bring up the Church.  For the most part, they rarely know anything thing more about the Church except for the big three, polygamy, race discrimination and LGBT issues.  Those three issues give them very little reason to want to know more about the Church.  When I tell people I used to be Mormon, no one ever asks me why I left the Church.  If they do, I just tell them that I am gay and the Church really didn't work for me.  It is about all they need to know.  

I think a lot of these issues are Mormon Bubble issues.  Just my experience.

[JAHS]

On 3/4/2024 at 10:31 AM, Calm said:

Ps:  can anyone tell me how to shrink screenshots?

Can't shrink direct screen shots. You have to save it first and then use a program like Paint to make it smaller then post that

[Calm]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Can't shrink direct screen shots. You have to save it first and then use a program like Paint to make it smaller then post that

Thank you. 

[Stargazer]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:04 PM, JAHS said:

Can't shrink direct screen shots. You have to save it first and then use a program like Paint to make it smaller then post that

I was about to post that answer, too. I use paint.net for messing with images. It's free, it's easy to learn, and a lot more useful than MS Paint.

[Stargazer]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:12 PM, Calm said:

Thank you. 

My favorite image editing software is paint.net. It's free, not hard to learn, and can do a surprisingly lot of things. 

https://www.getpaint.net/

I use it a lot when I am making videos for my YouTube channel, for making graphics, cropping photos, and so on.