Interplanetary Travel & The LDS's

[Sara H]

Because there has been so much discussion recently about extraterrestrial life in space and here on earth, I want to start a new thread that is connected to the one I started a few days ago. I believe that if it turns out in the next few years that governments all over the world are covering up the truth that extraterrestrial beings have actually visited our planet, many different religions and the people who subscribe to the doctrines of these religions are going to have a tremendously hard time embracing the fact that aliens do exist. If there are extraterrestrial beings out there in the universe, then it stands to reason that they are not descendants of Adam and Eve like we are. How will the Christians feel about beings that didn't come from the lineage of Adam and Eve?

But from the perspective of my church, the Latter-day Saints, our faith provides explanations for any question that could arise if extraterrestrial beings really exist. From what I remember from when I was growing up, back when we used to actually talk about the non-Christian portions of our gospel, I believe that there are many planets that have their own Adam and Eve, as well as their own redeemed savior exactly like the one that we have. This is because many of these other worlds have a similar version of the gospel as we do. My theory is that there are a number of gods who, right now, are working together to build planets. Because our doctrine teaches that matter is eternal and can be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed, I believe that the Gods rely on their spirit children to collect eternal matter that has always been co-existent with God. Furthermore, I think that faithful spirit children travel through space in order to collect matter from different planets. This is because our doctrine teaches that matter can be organized and reorganized, but it cannot be destroyed. If we believe that people and God both existed as a form of everlasting matter before we existed in our physical state, then would it be a true statement to say that we hold this belief? 

To declare that we think our Father God was first spirit matter, then went from spirit to human, lived on a planet as a person, died, and then finally attained his status as God, would this be a true statement? If this is the case, then our doctrine demonstrates the ability to travel between planets, right? And if there is interplanetary travel, is there a religion that explains it better than the one we practice? Not in my opinion at all! 

To tie in with my other thread, the one where I'm being ridiculed for saying that our God may not be the most powerful God out there, I think there's a good chance that one day we actually see the aliens that have visited our planet like many important people are now saying, and that when we do, we will see a more perfect version of a spirit child that was formed from a different God than the one that we worship. If they are able to go in a spacecraft, penetrate our atmosphere, then there is a good likelihood that the God they follow is probably further along the path of eternal progression than our God. Perhaps the extraterrestrial will be green, or perhaps it will be blue. Who knows? But if they are able to do so, then there is a good chance that their God will be more advanced than our God. 

I also believe that if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited our planet, there is a really good chance that we will discover that many of the people mentioned in the Bible who lived to be between 600 and 1000 years old were probably the spirit children of another God who came to earth to assist our God in establishing his everlasting gospel. This is something I believe will be the case if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited us. They were able to live for such a long time because the DNA of their god was more evolved than the DNA of our god, which gave them the ability to live for a longer period of time.  

I also believe that the aliens that travel by spacecraft are most likely beings that have not yet been exalted to the Celestial Kingdom. Because of this, I believe that one of the aspects of their eternal punishment is that they are unable to teleport from one planet to another like the more advanced beings that reside in the Celestial Kingdom. 

In comparison to the bulk of the world's religions, I have no doubt that the structure of our church makes it easier for its members to embrace the idea that it is possible to travel between the planets in spacecraft. The only thing that could derail the plan that I just laid out for you is if extraterrestrials revealed to us that there is no God and that human beings descended from apes. If that is accurate, then I'm going to start drinking heavily and continue doing so until the arthritis that has affected sixty percent of my body's joints becomes unnoticeable to me.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Sara H

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

Because there has been so much discussion recently about extraterrestrial life in space and here on earth, I want to start a new thread that is connected to the one I started a few days ago. I believe that if it turns out in the next few years that governments all over the world are covering up the truth that extraterrestrial beings have actually visited our planet, many different religions and the people who subscribe to the doctrines of these religions are going to have a tremendously hard time embracing the fact that aliens do exist. If there are extraterrestrial beings out there in the universe, then it stands to reason that they are not descendants of Adam and Eve like we are. How will the Christians feel about beings that didn't come from the lineage of Adam and Eve?

But from the perspective of my church, the Latter-day Saints, our faith provides explanations for any question that could arise if extraterrestrial beings really exist. From what I remember from when I was growing up, back when we used to actually talk about the non-Christian portions of our gospel, I believe that there are many planets that have their own Adam and Eve, as well as their own redeemed savior exactly like the one that we have. This is because many of these other worlds have a similar version of the gospel as we do. My theory is that there are a number of gods who, right now, are working together to build planets. Because our doctrine teaches that matter is eternal and can be organized and reorganized, but not destroyed, I believe that the Gods rely on their spirit children to collect eternal matter that has always been co-existent with God. Furthermore, I think that faithful spirit children travel through space in order to collect matter from different planets. This is because our doctrine teaches that matter can be organized and reorganized, but it cannot be destroyed. If we believe that people and God both existed as a form of everlasting matter before we existed in our physical state, then would it be a true statement to say that we hold this belief? 

To declare that we think our Father God was first spirit matter, then went from spirit to human, lived on a planet as a person, died, and then finally attained his status as God, would this be a true statement? If this is the case, then our doctrine demonstrates the ability to travel between planets, right? And if there is interplanetary travel, is there a religion that explains it better than the one we practice? Not in my opinion at all! 

To tie in with my other thread, the one where I'm being ridiculed for saying that our God may not be the most powerful God out there, I think there's a good chance that one day we actually see the aliens that have visited our planet like many important people are now saying, and that when we do, we will see a more perfect version of a spirit child that was formed from a different God than the one that we worship. If they are able to go in a spacecraft, penetrate our atmosphere, then there is a good likelihood that the God they follow is probably further along the path of eternal progression than our God. Perhaps the extraterrestrial will be green, or perhaps it will be blue. Who knows? But if they are able to do so, then there is a good chance that their God will be more advanced than our God. 

I also believe that if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited our planet, there is a really good chance that we will discover that many of the people mentioned in the Bible who lived to be between 600 and 1000 years old were probably the spirit children of another God who came to earth to assist our God in establishing his everlasting gospel. This is something I believe will be the case if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited us. They were able to live for such a long time because the DNA of their god was more evolved than the DNA of our god, which gave them the ability to live for a longer period of time.  

I also believe that the aliens that travel by spacecraft are most likely beings that have not yet been exalted to the Celestial Kingdom. Because of this, I believe that one of the aspects of their eternal punishment is that they are unable to teleport from one planet to another like the more advanced beings that reside in the Celestial Kingdom. 

In comparison to the bulk of the world's religions, I have no doubt that the structure of our church makes it easier for its members to embrace the idea that it is possible to travel between the planets in spacecraft. The only thing that could derail the plan that I just laid out for you is if extraterrestrials revealed to us that there is no God and that human beings descended from apes. If that is accurate, then I'm going to start drinking heavily and continue doing so until the arthritis that has affected sixty percent of my body's joints becomes unnoticeable to me.

I wouldn't drink, but maybe use medical marijuana, or other natural healing products.

[MustardSeed]

I’m with Tacenda.  And as to your theory, sure why not. 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

I also believe that if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited our planet, there is a really good chance that we will discover that many of the people mentioned in the Bible who lived to be between 600 and 1000 years old were probably the spirit children of another God who came to earth to assist our God in establishing his everlasting gospel. This is something I believe will be the case if we discover that extraterrestrials have visited us. They were able to live for such a long time because the DNA of their god was more evolved than the DNA of our god, which gave them the ability to live for a longer period of time.  

Since Father Adam lived to be nearly 1,000 years old, does this scenario of yours indicate that he is also one of the spirit children of a more evolved God, and that, contrary to the teachings scripture, we are not the literal DNA descendants of Father Adam? But if Father Adam isn’t one of the children of a one of your more evolved Gods, why was he able to live to be nearly 1000 years old? Further, if Father Adam did indeed live to be nearly 1000 years old without being the son of a more evolved God, why wouldn’t his immediate descendants also be able to live to be nearly 1000 years old? In light of this glaring inconsistency in your reasoning, it’s difficult to imagine that this isn’t just another one of your tongue-in-cheek spoofs.

You say you’re suffering from expensive arthritis throughout your body (very sorry to hear it), and this has me wondering if you’re using medical marijuana?

Edited to add: I see Tacenda just beat me in the mention of medical marijuana.

Edited August 11, 2023 by teddyaware

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Sara H said:

where I'm being ridiculed for saying that our God may not be the most powerful God out there

That was not the issue.  I have no problem with the speculation/thought experiment that there are Gods further along the path of eternal progression than our God whatever that means.  The issue was that you said God couldn’t create decent bodies for us where other Gods could, which means we are experiencing unnecessary extreme suffering because our God insists on stumbling around instead of asking for help when there are plenty of examples out there where it was done better (which contradicts the teachings of the unity of the Godhood/Council of Gods) so he not only is a bumbling creator, but not all loving or very compassionate either.

My specific issue is you have too low of a bar for Godhood.  Assuming there is a progression of power, it doesn’t make sense that compassionate beings would send out creators without making sure they were capable enough to care for their creatures well, especially if they are insistent on ensuring resurrected beings meet their standards.  

Why would they allow such a messed up world when it would screw up so many of its inhabitants, leaving them with mental, emotional, and spiritual baggage that probably will take eons to resolve, especially with a God who is still wet behind the ears being the one in charge of their healing process.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Calm

[Sara H]

32 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Since Father Adam lived to be nearly 1,000 years old, does this scenario of yours indicate that he is also one of the spirit children of a more evolved God, and that, contrary to the teachings scripture, we are not the literal DNA descendants of Father Adam? But if Father Adam isn’t one of the children of a one of your more evolved Gods, why was he able to live to be nearly 1000 years old? Further, if Father Adam did indeed live to be nearly 1000 years old without being the son of a more evolved God, why wouldn’t his immediate descendants also be able to live to be nearly 1000 years old? In light of this glaring inconsistency in your reasoning, it’s difficult to imagine that this isn’t just another one of your tongue-in-cheek spoofs.

You say you’re suffering from expensive arthritis throughout your body (very sorry to hear it), and this has me wondering if you’re using medical marijuana?

Edited to add: I see Tacenda just beat me in the mention of medical marijuana.

When it comes to matters of religion, there are really no glaring inconsistencies in my reasoning, in your reasoning, or in the reasoning of anybody else; everyone is just guessing at what occurs after we die; have you not worked out yet that this is the case? You appear to have an abnormally high level of sensitivity to thoughts that do not fit the narrative that you have crafted in your head. What other reason could there be for you to argue that my thread is a parody? 

 

You are similar to me in that you are unaware of Adam's true identity. Adam is God, according to the teachings of Brigham Young. 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Sara H said:

If that is accurate, then I'm going to start drinking heavily and continue doing so until the arthritis that has affected sixty percent of my body's joints becomes unnoticeable to me.

Alcohol is unlikely to help and will likely make your life more difficult.

Quote

Once you already have arthritis, drinking may have more downsides than pluses. Many of the medicines your doctor prescribes to relieve sore joints don’t mix well with alcohol – including non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen (Motrin) or naproxen (Aleve), which carry a greater risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers when you drink. Taken with acetaminophen, methotrexate or leflunomide (Arava), alcohol can make you more susceptible to liver damage.

Gout Attacks 
Alcohol is particularly problematic if you have gout. “Gout attacks can be brought on by purine-rich foods or drinks, and beer is high in purines,” Dr. Costenbader says. Distilled liquor, and possibly wine, can also cause problems for those with gout.

Additional Risks 
If you have arthritis and want to drink, talk to your doctor. Even with a doctor’s ok, limit yourself to one drink a day. That’s about 12 ounces of regular beer, 5 ounces of wine and 1.5 ounces of spirits. 

Excess drinking can damage your body in many other ways. “The risk of other kinds of diseases goes up with higher alcohol consumption,” says Dr. Costenbader. Conditions linked to drinking more than moderate amounts of alcohol include cancers of the breast, colon, esophagus, mouth and throat, as well as diseases like diabetes and stroke.

If you choose to drink, alcohol should only be one small part of a healthy diet. Eating healthy, exercising, controlling your weight and not smoking are better ways to protect your joints and the rest of your body, says Dr. Costenbader.

https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nutrition/foods-to-limit/alcohol
 

Medical marijuana may be a better bet, though there is nothing stopping you trying it now if you haven’t already if prescribed by a doctor (I believe that is the guideline issued by the Church).

https://arthritis.ca/treatment/medication/medical-cannabis

If you haven’t already gone to a pain or arthritis specialist, I would encourage you to do so before you try cannabis because the inexperience with this drug of most doctors can be dangerous.  I discovered that there was a very dangerous interaction between cannabis and a drug I am on that everyone was aware I was taking along with the cannabis that no one—until I got a new doctor, a pain specialist—warned me about (both suppress the CNS), not the doctor certified to prescribe it, not my GP, not the pharmacists at the dispensary where I got my cannabis.  It is quite likely if I had less anxiety about the loopy feeling that cannabis gives me, if I liked the sense of losing control instead of hating it and sticking with very small doses, I would now be dead.

[Nofear]

While I tend to find fault with much of your reasoning I think you may find a great deal that interests you in the Mormon Transhumanist Association (https://www.transfigurism.org/ , especially click the "Learn more" link).

 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Sara H said:

You are similar to me in that you are unaware of Adam's true identity. Adam is God, according to the teachings of Brigham Young. 

Teddy is quite familiar with the Adam God claims, I believe.  We have discussed them on this board quite a bit over the years and my memory is he has contributed to the discussion. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Sara H said:

You are similar to me in that you are unaware of Adam's true identity. Adam is God, according to the teachings of Brigham Young. 

Even if this is true, it doesn’t explain why we, his descendants, somehow messed up DNA when his was top notch.  If anything, assuming Adam is God makes your theory even less likely.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Calm

[Sara H]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

 The issue was that you said God couldn’t create decent bodies for us where other Gods could, which means we are experiencing unnecessary extreme suffering

What's this extreme suffering you are talking about?

Have you ever been nailed to a cross so that nails held your  body weight? Have you ever felt like the sins of the whole world was on your back? Have you ever had to take responsibility for everyone's mistakes and die to pay the price? Have you ever been whipped 39 times? Have you ever had to carry a 165 pound cross 2000 feet on your back? If we think about what Jesus had to go through, it's possible that your idea of extreme pain isn't the same as God's.

I think you set the bar too high for becoming a God. It seems like you're okay with the Gods gaining status and power along the path of eternal progression, but you seem upset by my idea that the Gods can learn while still moving forward. If what you think is true, it seems a little self-centered to me for the Gods to be able to progress without gaining knowledge. 

You or I could guess why the Gods let the world be so messed up. I learn more when I'm going through hard times. How about you?

 

[MustardSeed]

This is the most accurate video of the wrestle with God over pain IMO.  So poetically beautifully done.  
My understanding is that the video was done spontaneously, no make up, no clothing, driving through the desert, just raw.. 

Listening , watching accesses a deep pain within me that nothing else is accurate enough to expose.  I lost it again watching today. 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by MustardSeed

[Sara H]

31 minutes ago, Nofear said:

While I tend to find fault with much of your reasoning I think you may find a great deal that interests you in the Mormon Transhumanist Association (https://www.transfigurism.org/ , especially click the "Learn more" link).

 

Could you explain why you find fault in my reasoning? 

 

https://www.ldsliving.com/24-angels-who-visited-joseph-smith/s/79521

If you choose to answer, would you mind explaining how the 24 beings that visited Joseph during his lifetime get to earth? 

[MustardSeed]

16 minutes ago, Sara H said:

What's this extreme suffering you are talking about?

Have you ever been nailed to a cross

Pain isn’t a contest.  I suggest never minimizing someone else’s experience or suffering. 

[Sara H]

46 minutes ago, Calm said:

Even if this is true, it doesn’t explain why we, his descendants, somehow messed up DNA when his was top notch.  If anything, assuming Adam is God makes your theory even less likely.

You are making the assumption that attaining godhood puts an end to the quest for perfection and brings about its conclusion. My hypothesis is that the road leading to perfection runs concurrently with the road  of eternal progression. that the gods are always advancing not only mentally but also physically through a process of continuous learning and improvement. 

 

What I mean to say is that there may be planets in space where the average lifespan of that God's spiritual progeny may be 2,000 years. This is because the mental and physical perfection of that God is greater than that of our God. It's possible that there are worlds out there where the average longevity of its inhabitants is only 25 years, and the reason for this is that the god who created that planet is still relatively young in terms of being a god, and he hasn't shed all the defects he still suffers from, which causes those imperfections to show up in his progeny. 

 

[ksfisher]

14 minutes ago, Sara H said:

What I mean to say is that there may be planets in space where the average lifespan of that God's spiritual progeny may be 2,000 years

Why would this be of any benefit to those beings?  Our mortal existence is only one step, why would it need to be prolonged?

 

[JAHS]

3 hours ago, Sara H said:

Because there has been so much discussion recently about extraterrestrial life in space and here on earth

I  attribute this perception because of the activity on the internet about this subject, the soul purpose of which is click bait and to provide opportunities to display ads.
I believe people when they say they have seen ufos, I have seen one as well. But in my opinion they are just that - UFOs  -unidentified. In no way is it possible that they came from outer space.
CGI is a powerful tool that can manufacture almost any kind of video now.

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Why would this be of any benefit to those beings?  Our mortal existence is only one step, why would it need to be prolonged?

 

This was my thought as well.  Why would the mortal existence of a supreme God's children need to last so much longer? (That, and how horrible would that be to have to live in a fallen world for that long).

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This was my thought as well.  Why would the mortal existence of a supreme God's children need to last so much longer? (That, and how horrible would that be to have to live in a fallen world for that long).

There was a quote I saw once from (then) Elder Nelson, which I wish I could find but have never been able to since.  It was something about how each of us enter this life with the guarantee that we won't be stuck here forever. 

[rodheadlee]

What was that theory by a Hilton about our planet traveling from a different solar system to get to this solar system? Also the theory was that our God was the God of our galaxy and that each of His relatives was a God of the other Galaxies. One galaxy per God.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Alcohol is unlikely to help and will likely make your life more difficult.

https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nutrition/foods-to-limit/alcohol
 

Medical marijuana may be a better bet, though there is nothing stopping you trying it now if you haven’t already if prescribed by a doctor (I believe that is the guideline issued by the Church).

https://arthritis.ca/treatment/medication/medical-cannabis

If you haven’t already gone to a pain or arthritis specialist, I would encourage you to do so before you try cannabis because the inexperience with this drug of most doctors can be dangerous.  I discovered that there was a very dangerous interaction between cannabis and a drug I am on that everyone was aware I was taking along with the cannabis that no one—until I got a new doctor, a pain specialist—warned me about (both suppress the CNS), not the doctor certified to prescribe it, not my GP, not the pharmacists at the dispensary where I got my cannabis.  It is quite likely if I had less anxiety about the loopy feeling that cannabis gives me, if I liked the sense of losing control instead of hating it and sticking with very small doses, I would now be dead.

I'm sorry that happened Calm, and here I thought cannabis was 100% safe, good to know! I'm glad you reacted as you did, I don't think I could live knowing I was probably instrumental on you giving it a try. Or partly. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

What was that theory by a Hilton about our planet traveling from a different solar system to get to this solar system? Also the theory was that our God was the God of our galaxy and that each of His relatives was a God of the other Galaxies. One galaxy per God.

I always wondered if there were planets with people that look just like us. And when you put it in perspective it does seem like it's a huge possibility. 

[Navidad]

5 hours ago, Sara H said:

many different religions and the people who subscribe to the doctrines of these religions are going to have a tremendously hard time embracing the fact that aliens do exist

I am not following you. What do the doctrines of religion have to do with whether or not there are aliens, and whether or not they exist? Why would folks who subscribe to certain doctrines have a "tremendously hard time" embracing that aliens exist? Perhaps you could explicitly state which religions and which doctrines you are talking about? I am a pretty mainstream Evangelical and I can't think of any issues that my faith includes that would cause me to have a hard time embracing the reality of life on other planets. I don't see that question or issue engaging with embracing Christ as my Savior. Are you talking about non-Christian religions? Tell me more about the presuppositions behind your statement that I quoted. Methinks not everything is about religion. Thanks.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Navidad

[pogi]

5 hours ago, Sara H said:

How will the Christians feel about beings that didn't come from the lineage of Adam and Eve?

You are presuming that aliens from other planets will be humans just like us.  Do deer descend from Adam and Eve?  Clearly the existence of other life-forms that do not derive from Adam and Eve are not necessarily problematic to Christianity.    Christian's have no problem accepting the Biblical belief that God created everything in the universe.  They will just have to grapple with what it all means.

5 hours ago, Sara H said:

To tie in with my other thread, the one where I'm being ridiculed for saying that our God may not be the most powerful God out there,

I didn't see you being ridiculed for that.  I think the problem most had was with how you used the unsubstantiated lumen output of a rock to support your idea that God was less powerful than other Gods who everyone clearly knows have enough power to create a rock that doesn't require the darkness of a hat to see the words.   

[rodheadlee]

It was called the Kolob Theorum by Lynn Hilton. Perhaps  someone can find  a usable link.