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The Anti Coffee Crowd is Growing


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Nothing is stopping me from drinking coffee now with my nuanced beliefs, but I've heard that there are still problems with it opposite of it's wonderful traits and that is the pesticides used to grow coffee beans, so IMO that's the breaking point for me. Unless I could find something without chemicals. 

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On 5/12/2023 at 10:39 AM, Tacenda said:

Nothing is stopping me from drinking coffee now with my nuanced beliefs, but I've heard that there are still problems with it opposite of it's wonderful traits and that is the pesticides used to grow coffee beans, so IMO that's the breaking point for me. Unless I could find something without chemicals. 

Maybe that high end coffee bean that gets eaten and pooed out by monkeys. They say it's really good, I'd figure the monkeys will have ingested at least some of that pesticide for you.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/15/2023 at 12:31 AM, Pyreaux said:

Maybe that high end coffee bean that gets eaten and pooed out by monkeys. They say it's really good, I'd figure the monkeys will have ingested at least some of that pesticide for you.

Mmmmm....coffee beans pooed out by monkeys.... luxury!  😋

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On 5/14/2023 at 4:31 PM, Pyreaux said:

Maybe that high end coffee bean that gets eaten and pooed out by monkeys. They say it's really good, I'd figure the monkeys will have ingested at least some of that pesticide for you.

It's not monkeys. It's civets. Kopi luwat.

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Brothers and sisters I can testify that coffee is addicting and it will stunt your growth just like smoking. Of course I mean your spiritual growth. When I drink coffee I want another cigarette. I quit for a long time and then we had this tsunami in Samoa and I started drinking coffee again. Now I drink three cups a day minimum.

Edited by rodheadlee
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On 7/14/2023 at 5:42 PM, rodheadlee said:

Brothers and sisters I can testify that coffee is addicting and it will stunt your growth just like smoking. Of course I mean your spiritual growth. When I drink coffee I want another cigarette. I quit for a long time and then we had this tsunami in Samoa and I started drinking coffee again. Now I drink three cups a day minimum.

Thank you for that- 

I’m curious how it stunts you? If you choose to share. 

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7 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Thank you for that- 

I’m curious how it stunts you? If you choose to share. 

It is preventing me from acquiring the Melchiziedek Priesthood as well as being sealed to my wife. Smoking and coffee. I can't get a TR.

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On 7/16/2023 at 3:49 PM, rodheadlee said:

It is preventing me from acquiring the Melchiziedek Priesthood as well as being sealed to my wife. Smoking and coffee. I can't get a TR.

My dad was what you'd call a Jack Mormon. He'd drink coffee even after he was endowed in the temple, he suffered from chronic back pain and this somehow helped the pain I guess. I remember when I was married in the temple, in order for my dad to get his temple recommend renewed his bishop asked him to drink decaff coffee. That might have lasted a month I'm thinking. That's too bad that you can't get one for the word of wisdom issue, but maybe some day you can kick the habit. My caffeine is cold, but I know there's more to it. I know how difficult quitting smoking is too, my two brothers can't kick it, even the one who suffered a heart attack. 

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On 7/16/2023 at 2:49 PM, rodheadlee said:

It is preventing me from acquiring the Melchiziedek Priesthood as well as being sealed to my wife. Smoking and coffee. I can't get a TR.

Those are really hard things to kick.  I feel for you.  
If sugar precluded participation I’d be in the exact same spot.  Maybe it should. 

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18 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My dad was what you'd call a Jack Mormon. He'd drink coffee even after he was endowed in the temple, he suffered from chronic back pain and this somehow helped the pain I guess. I remember when I was married in the temple, in order for my dad to get his temple recommend renewed his bishop asked him to drink decaff coffee. That might have lasted a month I'm thinking. That's too bad that you can't get one for the word of wisdom issue, but maybe some day you can kick the habit. My caffeine is cold, but I know there's more to it. I know how difficult quitting smoking is too, my two brothers can't kick it, even the one who suffered a heart attack. 

Point

It does help with back pain.

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3 hours ago, Raingirl said:

I don’t see coffee or tea as the big evil the church paints them to be. They both have legitimate beneficial qualities. 

Completely agree.  Even tobacco can help with pain….but the benefit is outweighed by the cost in most situations though I had an acquaintance whose doctors insisted he not try and give it up because adding more pain meds to replace the effect of tobacco as well as to counter withdrawing would require enough drugs it would have killed him.  Our bishop went with the doctors’ advice and waved his giving it up or even abstaining for a time as is commonly required for his baptism, which I am grateful for as he died a short time afterwards and I believe feeling and being part of the ward and church family improved his quality of life during that time.

I know temple covenants are serious, but so are baptism covenants and I would love to see more being allowed to at least get their own temple work done even if still struggling with addictions just as I see many baptisms are approved of after a few weeks of avoidance even though it is known there could be a relapse.

To me, the WoW is more about self discipline (not will power, that is not the same as self discipline in my view though I was taught that way in my youth…but willpower is not enough to change behaviour) and focus and committing to a shared way of life within our spiritual community rather than the supposed significant harms of coffee and tea.  I am less accepting of tobacco because it seems to me the body is less capable of dealing with its negatives and its negatives are much more significant than its positives, but even lungs can clean themselves out to a significant extent.  Alcohol is problematic because it contains chemicals that may derail the brain from making wise choices and can vary in how it hits you depending on what you consume with it, your state of health and other circumstances, so just by consuming it you increase risk dramatically for making dangerous decisions leading to misuse while consuming coffee and tea isn’t going to remove your commitment for moderate intake (how many drinkers have become drunk unintentionally over the eons?). Plus the evidence is growing about its ability to damage brain cells, though even brain cells regenerate.  And then there is the problem that while it might temporarily help with emotional feelings, giving some relief, it will likely backfire increasing depression and anxiety.  It can help with falling asleep faster, but your quality of sleep will be much poorer, so you end up more sleepy the next day, not less.  But even with alcohol, there are positives in its use as it can help with socializing, its use is meaningful in spiritual rituals and family traditions, it has temporary pain killing effects among others and these should not be ignored in a discussion about how people use alcohol, imo.

I do see the consumption of coffee as contributing significantly to the sleep dysfunction that is rampant in modern society, but the electricity giving us light in the dark, entertainment devices, and sedentary lifestyles likely make coffee intake minor in comparison in impact.  Tea may have the same effect, though to a lesser degree.  I understand it may also contribute to kidney stones…which I hear are better avoided.

Edited by Calm
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11 hours ago, Raingirl said:

When I was diagnosed with liver disease, I was given dietary guidelines to follow.  These, of course, included a number of ‘don’ts’. But it also included drinking a certain amount of coffee daily.  
I told a few members about this, and they were appalled that I would even consider drinking coffee, even when prescribed by a doctor. 
I don’t know how/why it works, but I was able to greatly reduce my pain and nausea meds. 
I don’t see coffee or tea as the big evil the church paints them to be. They both have legitimate beneficial qualities. 

As I've mentioned on the board before as my "well thought-out opinion," coffee and tea aren't proscribed in the WoW because of the caffeine, but because they are coffee and tea. Not that you're talking about caffeine... It's just that @Tacenda's bishop's recommendation for decaf made me chuckle.

When it comes to the whole approach in your case as to coffee, I would choose to take the coffee recommendation, if valid medical advice, as go-for-it, and consider that you're still keeping the WoW. The key word there is "wisdom." It would be much like taking medication that is dissolved in alcohol. While at the same time, avoiding triggering your fellow church members about it.

The avoidance of unnecessary triggering reminds me of the case of famous pianist Marvin Goldstein. He converted from Judaism to LDS, fair enough, but then his mother likewise converted. When she died, she chose to have a closed casket funeral so her fellow synagogue and family members weren't unnecessarily triggered by her being dressed in temple robes.

 

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On 5/10/2023 at 5:22 AM, sunstoned said:

Coffee is so pedestrian. Tea is a much more refined beverage.

I actually agree with you on this! Not that I drink the stuff, but I used to do before I covenanted not to. It is definitely a more refined beverage. Coffee is a sledgehammer. Tea is a jeweller's hammer.

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On 7/21/2023 at 6:57 PM, Pyreaux said:

Cigarettes and coffee just.. stink so bad... I'm sensitive to smells, I don't like incense or perfume either. Which is probably a symptom of what I suspect to be functional asperger's.

Yep, can't hide those sins.

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