Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Daybell-Vallow trial


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Doubt it. Sociopathic narcissists are rare. Very rare. It is likely one or the other. A psychopath or sociopath would be unlikely to worry about their lack of moral conscience or empathy nor would they likely be vain. The whole being a goddess/divine being might appeal to a narcissist but a sociopath or psychopath wouldn’t need that kind of rationale and would probably reject it as laughable. Lori also wouldn’t need anything to ameliorate her guilt if she was a psychopath or sociopath.

This is nice fiction but very unlikely.

I said she has a “narcissistic need,” not that she necessarily also has narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic traits appear on a spectrum, from those who exhibit some narcissistic traits and behaviors on occasion, all the way to those who have full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. My intent was to posit that she’s likely somewhere on the narcissistic spectrum.

At any rate, why don’t you do some searching under the terms ‘narcissistic sociopaths’ and ‘sociopathic narcissists, and read some of the many articles, and/or watch some the many video presentations, that will help you to realize the two disorders are often connected and frequently overlap.

By the way, I’d say an informed observer of this case would have to be either willfully blind or inept not to be able to see that she has strong indications of both disorders because she’s an obvious off-the-charts egomaniac who is also seriously lacking in the moral conscience catagory.

Edited by teddyaware
Posted
11 hours ago, teddyaware said:

By the way, I’d say an informed observer of this case would have to be either willfully blind or inept not to be able to see that she has strong indications of both disorders because she’s an obvious off-the-charts egomaniac who is also seriously lacking in the moral conscience catagory.

Don’t take the bait Nehor. 

Posted
11 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I said she has a “narcissistic need,” not that she necessarily also has narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic traits appear on a spectrum, from those who exhibit some narcissistic traits and behaviors on occasion, all the way to those who have full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. My intent was to posit that she’s likely somewhere on the narcissistic spectrum.

Agreed

Posted
Quote

Summer and family are sitting in the rows reserved for the prosecution – not the defense. She is able to be in here for other witnesses because Judge Boyce deemed her Tylee’s representative.

I think it is rather interesting she was chosen as Tylee’s representative instead of Annie Cushing, her father’s sister, given how Summer might be involved in Charles’ death and might be conflicted  between supporting her sister and advocating for her niece. I want to know why this decision was made.  Did Cushing refuse for some reason?

SS wasn’t present the rest of the trial either, while Cushing was. 

It is believed SS will be a witness today. 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/04/day-14-live-updates-new-week-of-daybell-trial-begins-with-rexburg-detective-testifying/

Posted (edited)

I just read in one of the court documents of FB, so may take a bit to link to it directly that Kay and Larry Woodcock, JJ’s grandparents (Larry is a step grandfather) are divorced.  First time I have heard anything about that. 
 

added:  they had been divorced, but were remarried

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/1643991764091666441

 

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)

I had forgotten that LVD had shown some crazy long before her hookup with CD as during the custody case with her third husband, Joe Ryan, she told a case worker she thought Tylee was the reincarnation of her last sister, Stacy, and said she saw dead people on a daily basis. 
 

https://crimereads.com/john-glatt-on-lori-vallow-chad-daybell-and-writing-about-true-crime-as-it-unfolds/

Supposedly this author interviews a childhood friend of LVD who said AC tried to abuse her when she was 12. 
 

May have background on CD and Tammy’s relationship. Parking it here to watch later:

https://youtu.be/-abgDqyMoO0

May delete later

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)

This morning laying foundation for evidence from cell phones and computer searches. 
 

Pinpointed only Alex Cox’s phone for all the relevant areas and times.   
 

Showed wedding photos. 

Edited by Calm
Posted
18 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I said she has a “narcissistic need,” not that she necessarily also has narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissistic traits appear on a spectrum, from those who exhibit some narcissistic traits and behaviors on occasion, all the way to those who have full-blown narcissistic personality disorder. My intent was to posit that she’s likely somewhere on the narcissistic spectrum.

At any rate, why don’t you do some searching under the terms ‘narcissistic sociopaths’ and ‘sociopathic narcissists, and read some of the many articles, and/or watch some the many video presentations, that will help you to realize the two disorders are often connected and frequently overlap.

By the way, I’d say an informed observer of this case would have to be either willfully blind or inept not to be able to see that she has strong indications of both disorders because she’s an obvious off-the-charts egomaniac who is also seriously lacking in the moral conscience catagory.

Again, sociopathy and narcissism rarely overlap. People talk about them together or talk about generalized narcissism and behaviors that are sociopathic and those can overlap but a full-blow sociopath is almost never a narcissist and I can’t imagine a psychopath combining the two.

There are many people who lack moral conscience without being a psychopath or sociopath. You’re just throwing terms around.

6 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Don’t take the bait Nehor. 

 

Posted

Afternoon testimonies were mostly technical stuff.  
 

CD and LVD’s temple recommend cards were scanned seconds apart six times and once 20 minutes apart. The Church must have provided the records. 

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Calm said:

Afternoon testimonies were mostly technical stuff.  
 

CD and LVD’s temple recommend cards were scanned seconds apart six times and once 20 minutes apart. The Church must have provided the records. 

Listening to Kay Woodcock's testimony, I cannot fathom other than the schemed up idea to get their hands on insurance money, why Lori and Chad would snuff out three and maybe four lives. Kay stated that she helped take care of JJ in Houston while Charles was straightening things out with the separation of he and Lori. Why, oh WHY couldn't Chad and Lori have just let JJ go live with his grandparents and his dad too and then Tylee go on to college, and then the two of them could have all kinds of time together. And let Tammy be with her children, and be free of Chad and live a decent life finally. It's such a sad scene in every respect. 

Edited by Tacenda
Posted
2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Listening to Kay Woodcock's testimony, I cannot fathom other than the schemed up idea to get their hands on insurance money, why Lori and Chad would snuff out three and maybe four lives. Kay stated that she helped take care of JJ in Houston while Charles was straightening things out with the separation of he and Lori. Why, oh WHY couldn't Chad and Lori have just let JJ go live with his grandparents and his dad too and then Tylee go on to college, and then the two of them could have all kinds of time together. And let Tammy be with her children, and be free of Chad and live a decent life finally. It's such a sad scene in every respect. 

Well, when God tells you to do stuff ... <_< :rolleyes: 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Listening to Kay Woodcock's testimony, I cannot fathom other than the schemed up idea to get their hands on insurance money, why Lori and Chad would snuff out three and maybe four lives. Kay stated that she helped take care of JJ in Houston while Charles was straightening things out with the separation of he and Lori. Why, oh WHY couldn't Chad and Lori have just let JJ go live with his grandparents and his dad too and then Tylee go on to college, and then the two of them could have all kinds of time together. And let Tammy be with her children, and be free of Chad and live a decent life finally. It's such a sad scene in every respect. 

LVD was getting $2000 or more iirc from SS for JJ and about the same for Tylee. One can manage in Hawaii on $4000 a month, $2000 is much harder. She or CD would have had to get a job since it would be a risk to ask Melani for money as had been part of the original plan. I doubt there is a lot of demand for grave diggers and out of date hair stylists (been 15 years since she worked, likely many techniques she wasn’t trained in) in Hawaii. She certainly did not have enough money to start her own business again. 

Just in case I haven’t mentioned it already…

Someone at CD’s location googled sw wind on Sunday afternoon, likely when Tylee was still alive and definitely while the alleged raccoon was (CD claimed to kill it the next day).  Which given the bonfire the next day to dispose of her body and CD claiming responsibility for the bonfire to Tammy according to texts recovered (got to burn the debris around the home), is a slam dunk imo for premeditated conspiracy, accessory before and after the fact, but it could of course just have been coincidence. 
 

It would be interesting to see if there was any googling for wind direction with the other bonfires they had in the past or future. Were they always this careful about having smoke blow away from the homes or if they only cared about it this time (bodies being burnt smell quite differently than wood, etc being burnt).  My guess is since they had to Google “sw wind” they did not.  I am guessing they looked at the weather prediction for wind direction for the next day and then were clueless about what it meant. 

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Calm said:

I had forgotten that LVD had shown some crazy long before her hookup with CD as during the custody case with her third husband, Joe Ryan, she told a case worker she thought Tylee was the reincarnation of her last sister, Stacy, and said she saw dead people on a daily basis. ...

A Perfect Murder meets The Sixth Sense meets something else?  (Sorry I'm not feeling creative enough this morning to think up any other movie titles! ;))  Also, don't say the c-word!  She'll get off! ;) 

Edited by Kenngo1969
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Also, don't say the c-word!  She'll get off!

No insanity plea in Idaho. All it will do is delay the trial until she is judged competent to stand trial again.  I have no clue how that works into sentencing. I can see the logic in holding someone fully responsible if they were medicated and were sane and chose to go off medication because they didn’t like how they felt as I would wish they held drunk drivers fully responsible as they chose to incapacitate themselves without taking enough precautions such as leaving the car at home or giving their keys to someone else.

I don’t know how that works out morally if society refuses to medicate someone who is mentally incompetent and refuses to supervise them and then they commit a crime.  I would like to see how that is handled by Idaho. 

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
Quote

Lori’s sister, Summer Shiflet, is here with her husband, uncle and other family members. I expect that she will take the stand today. When Lori walked in, Summer smiled at her. 

And she is supposed to be Tylee’s representative. 
 

I hope she is making nice to convince LVD to confess. 
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/04/day-15-live-updates-fbi-analyst-back-on-the-stand-lori-vallow-daybells-sister-in-courtroom-for-trial/

 

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
Quote

8:59 a.m. Ballance explains there was a lot of cell phone activity between Chad, Lori and Alex shortly after the phone attributed to the HOMERJMAXIMUS account left Chad’s property the morning of Sept. 9.

8:56 a.m. Between 11:42 and 11:47 a.m. on Sept. 9, the phone attributed to the HOMERJMAXIMUS account was in the vicinity of Chad Daybell’s home, Ballance says….

9:04 a.m. Cell phone records show Chad made a call to Alex on Sept. 23 at 9:25 a.m. Chad also called Lori three times between 9:30 and 9:35 a.m. on the same date. Police believe JJ was killed Sept. 22 – Sept. 23.

9:02 a.m. Ballance now explains cell phone activity on Sept. 23 between 3:59 a.m. until 8:34 a.m. Chad sent numerous text messages to Lori….

9:18 a.m. Alex (or a phone attributed to him) had a 545-second phone call with Lori Vallow (or a phone attributed to her) that morning during this time frame. 

9:16 a.m. Ballance explains the HOMERJMAXIMUM Google account history between 10:12 a.m. – 10:20 a.m. on the same morning. It was on Chad’s property at 10:12 a.m. but eight minutes later, the phone has left the property and is south in the Rexburg area.

 

 

Edited by Calm
Posted
Quote

9:40 a.m. Ballance says Chad texted Alex six times that night. The first message was sent at 7:30 p.m. The last message was sent at 10:29 p.m.

9:38 a.m. Numerous text messages were exchanged that night between Chad, Lori and Alex between 5:28 p.m. and 10:31 p.m. 

9:37 a.m. By 5:16 p.m., GPS data shows Alex’s phone was back in the area of his Rexburg apartment and it remains at his residence.

9:36 a.m. Ballance says he can not determine the exact route Alex took to get to the Daybell home but at 4:58 p.m., GPS data locates Alex on the same road where Chad lives. Less than ten minutes later, Alex is on a Sugar City road.

9:33 a.m. Beginning around 4:47 p.m., the Google account history shows the device near the area of the Daybell home, according to Ballance. It is there until 4:56 p.m. 

9:29 a.m. The HOMERJMAXIMUS was tracked to Lori’s Rexburg apartment on the afternoon of Oct. 9. He then moved to his apartment. Around 2:42 p.m., the account/device starts to move toward Idaho Falls. It is tracked at or near Sportsman’s Warehouse in Idaho Falls at 3:17 p.m. 

9:28 a.m. Oct. 9, 2019 is the same day Tammy Daybell reported a masked man with a paintball gun tried to shoot her in her driveway. You can read more about that here.

 

If I were the defense I would show this activity was typical. If it isn’t, it is damning, imo. 

Posted (edited)
Quote

9:49 a.m. A phone attributed to Alex Cox was located at a church near Chad Daybell’s home around 10:07 p.m. on Oct. 18, according to Ballance. Chad told investigators that Tammy died in her sleep early on Oct. 19. Three text messages were sent to Lori Vallow – one at 11:34 p.m. and two at 11:35 p.m. Ballance says he is not able to look at the content of those messages.

9:46 a.m. Once the 401 number was activated, Ballance says there was “heavy interactions” between Chad, Lori and Alex.

9:42 a.m. Ballance now talking about cell phone activity on Oct. 18, 2019 – the day before Tammy died. Alex’s cell phone was at his Rexburg apartment. Between 1:56 p.m. and 8:54 p.m., text messages were exchanged between Chad, Lori and Alex. There was also a call that was 2,956 seconds (over 49 minutes) between Chad and Lori

AC was nearby the night Tammy died.  I wonder if they have a time of death estimate for Tammy. Something that is not dependent on CD. 

Edited by Calm
Posted
Quote

10:59 a.m. Wood has further questions and asks Ballance if it’s possible to turn GPS data off your phone. Ballance says it is – you can opt out of GPS tracking. Wood has nothing further.

10:58 a.m. Thomas asks about Oct. 19 and Ballance confirms Lori’s phone was in Hawaii that day. Thomas has no further questions. 

10:55 a.m. Ballance says he does not have any GPS locations on Lori or Chad – just Alex Cox.

10:53 a.m. Thomas asks why some text messages can be read or retrieved later but other messages can’t. Ballance responds that it depends on which records are maintained by individual cell phone carriers. He says at the time of the investigation, Verizon was the only carrier that kept text messages for 3-7 days. The other carriers did not keep records.

10:50 a.m. Thomas asks if Ballance can, with certainty, say that a particular phone was at an exact location on the Daybell property. Ballance says there is no 100% certainty – but estimations. 

10:48 a.m. Thomas referencing the presentation the prosecutors displayed. “Great charts if you know what you’re doing and know what you’re looking at but for the layperson like me, it’s a little difficult.”

 

 

Posted (edited)
Quote

11:20 a.m. “They were innocent and they were loved,” Summer says. “Come up with an explanation publicly!” The call cuts off.

11:20 a.m. “There is NOTHING okay about this. NOTHING,” Summer says. Lori responds, “Nothing about this is ok Summer.” Summer says, “I am telling you, because I love you with all my heart, please consider that Chad has lied and been deceived and you have been deceived and this is not what you think it is. There is nothing okay about killing children. Nothing. And even if you dndn’t kill them and Alex didn’t kill them and Chad didn’t kill them, you threw them away like garbage! In a pet cemetery!” Summer is sobbing and can barely breath.

11:17 a.m. Lori: “Nobody in the world knows what I’ve been through. You’ve only seen what’s on TV.” Summer: “So I’m deceived? Everyone in the world is deceived?” Lori responds, “Nobody has seen me crying on the floor.” Summer asks about the photos on the beach. “You don’t think your mother and your sister deserve to know that your children are gone?! Why didn’t you call to tell us this?”

11:15 a.m. Summer screams at Lori that she never called to tell her Alex died or that her kids are gone. “You don’t think that will cause pain throughout our entire family?!” Lori says, “You don’t think I’m in pain?” Summer reposnds, “No I don’t. You were dancing on the beach having a great time! You got wedding pictures while your kids are in the ground?” Lori says, “Nobody knows.” Summer says, “Nobody knows except you and the Lord? There is nothing in the scriptures that is Godly about hurting a child! They deserve a proper burial with family that loves them in the least!” People in the courtroom are crying as this call is being played. Lori is looking down.

11:14 a.m. Lori says everyone sees what’s on TV. Summer responds, “This has NOTHING to do with what’s on TV.” She screams at Lori how she defended her on TV and asks for Lori to tell her to the truth. Lori says, “I would love to.”

11:12 a.m. “Lori if you let this happen to them and put them in the ground like a piece of trash, I don’t know you…We would have taken them!” Summer is now screaming at Lori. “You cut me and mom off for four months! Now we find out this out and you expect me to just keep doing with zero explanation and you expect me to just keep believing without ever having a question?”

11:11 a.m. Summer asks Lori if she knew they were there. Lori says, “I can’t talk about it.” Summer says she doesn’t know what to say and the “kids were thrown away like garbage…it’s too painful.” Lori quietly responds, “Do you think I let that happen?” Summer responds, “Yes, I do.” Summer: “You went off to Hawaii and were dancing on the beach as the kids were on the ground?!?! You had to know they were there! I don’t understand! They were just little kids! I don’t understand!”

11:10 a.m. From the call: “How are you?” Lori asks. Summer responds, “Not good” as she is sobbing. “I don’t know what to say. I’m willing to listen if you want to talk to me,” Summer says. Lori says she doesn’t know what anybody knows and doesn’t know anything. Lori says she hasn’t talked to anybody. [She was in isolation for two weeks.] “I know they found Tylee buried in a pet cemetery and JJ buried in Chad’s background and we don’t understand how that happened,” Summer says sobbing. She can barely breath. “You didn’t tell us. We are devastated.” 

11:08 a.m. Rammell asks to play the call for the jury. Summer is crying on the stand and wiping away tears.

11:06 a.m. “I felt lied to and my trust in my sister was broken,” Summer says when she learned the children were dead. Rammell now mentions the video call on June 24, 2020. She received a request from Lori to call her. Rammell now admits the call.

11:05 a.m. Rammell says Summer if she spoke with Lori about the missing kids. Summer says they spoke in February 2020. “I don’t remember the exact wording but she basically told me she knew where they were and they were safe.” Summer says she believed Lori and thought the kids were ok.

11:04 a.m. Summer says she played an active role in the lives of JJ and Tylee. She learned they were missing in December 2019. Summer was not in contact with Lori at the time and did not know where she was. Summer wipes away tears as she speaks

So the only reason LVD calls Summer is to find out what is happening?  Why not talk to her lawyer?

She certainly wasn’t calling for her sister’s behalf.  She can barely come up with any expression of actual pain, she answers no questions, just keeps deflecting.  And there is no attempt to suggest anything else happened besides them killing the children, LVD is only saying she is suffering and nobody is trying to understand how she feels about it, nobody cares about her.  It is all drama queen.  

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
Quote

11:27 a.m. Archibald asks if Summer was involved in her sister’s life when Charles and Lori had separated. Summer says yes. She was not aware of Charles filing for divorce until it came out in the media. Summer thought they had reconciled.

And yet there is the conversation with LVD right before Charles died.  I will fetch it in a bit.

 

p.png
 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qiocn89q0ezzor5/summer-said-she-would-kill-him-herself.png

”Lori learns of Adam and Charles’ intervention plans. The indictment states she found this out from her mother, Janis Cox, and Summer Shiflet. She then reached out to Alex Cox, Melani Boudreaux (now Pawlowski), and Summer Shiflet to warn them of Adam and Charles’ intervention (source 1 // source 2).”

https://www.annielytics.com/blog/personal/timeline-events-around-disappearance-of-tylee-ryan-jj-vallow/

Quote

11:38 a.m. Summer now describes Alex as fun and hilarious but sometimes crude. Most weekends he was at her house playing with her kids. Alex suffered a brain injury as a teenager and Summer believes it affected him. “He seemed stuck in making teenage decisions. He got in his car accident when he was 16 and made decisions like a 16-year-old most of his life.”

But a 16 year old knows it’s wrong to kill.

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)

Next is a retired cop who describes the videos of the storage facility with CD, LVD, and AC. He did other stuff too, laying foundation and connecting the dots of stuff already known.

Lunchbreak

I wonder if SS was not available earlier because there doesn’t seem to be any reason to have her placed here between all the technical stuff.  I would have had her earlier so the jury would have had that “dumped like garbage” ringing in their ears for more of the trial.  That lack of denial in that call coupled with LVD’s “it’s all about me!” conversation is very apparent, imo….though haven’t read the verbatim report yet.

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)

I am reading reactions to Summer’s testimony on websleuths. I don’t know if this is accurate,  it if it is….

Quote

remember that Lori was in the car with Tylee watching as Alex assaulted Joe Ryan

Joseph Ryan was Tylee’s dad.  Alex had apparently intended to kill him when he was disabled with the taser (conclusion of AC’s exwife from what AC told her), but Ryan wasn’t  completely out of it and fought back iirc.

also:

Quote

see Hidden True Crime interview with Lori's cousin Meghan re the family believing you didn't need car insurance & so when Alex totalled his truck, he just walked away and the family left it for somebody else to clear -up…

Meghan also says that she believes that even if Lori had not met Chad Lori would've ended up going to extremes.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-doomsday-cult-victims-joshua-vallow-tylee-ryan-tammy-daybell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-19#post-18277065

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)

Only one report has this, so may not be accurate, but if it is, it sounds like admission to knowing the kids are dead.

Quote

Lori: "Nobody knows what I've been through" Summer: You were dancing on a beach" Lori: months later, I was trying to go on and be happy Summer: How can you think this is ok? Lori: nothing about this is ok.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-doomsday-cult-victims-joshua-vallow-tylee-ryan-tammy-daybell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-20#post-18277176
 

I assume there will be a transcript this evening

Janis Cox’s brother is with her, not the husband.  Wonder why he isn’t here with them.  The father was rated dark, never was interviewed.  Supposedly he is schizophrenic, so maybe it is a health thing.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/04/watch-lori-daybells-uncle-becomes-emotional-while-expressing-gratitude-for-everyone-involved-in-the-case/

The uncle seems like a nice guy, he is crying at times, he laughs and it feels a bit weird given what they are talking about, but I suspect it is feeling awkward as well as it all being surreal and him remembering the good times too.  His laughing was nothing like LVD’s laughing.  He had little contact with them after they changed, so there is probably a big disconnect.

added:  from ws…

Quote

 ( While the sister Stacey was dying in USA, the family stayed in Hawaii. Only Alex and the cousin were in USA and visited Stacy when she was in a coma at the hospice. It's in that new interview at HTC)

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-doomsday-cult-victims-joshua-vallow-tylee-ryan-tammy-daybell-charles-vallow-arrests-71.675381/page-20#post-18277254

Edited by Calm

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...