Daybell-Vallow trial

[Calm]

Audio is up now.

pointed out on WS about the 911 call for Tammy’s death.

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But in contrast to real distress and excessive control, Nate Eaton said he was crying, then stopped to give his name in a normal voice, then was crying again.

There is, imo, a kind of off/on/off/on emotional shift, where he is quite clear when he needs to be, but all shaky and barely intelligible when not conveying specific emotion.  This might be due to being given a task that is a habit…saying one’s address, giving directions.  Maybe that habit is automatically triggered.  I don’t know if the mind works that way in highly intense situations or if one is in shock.

And I suspect that even if he wanted her dead, there was likely a part of him that was fond of her as she had been very supportive of him over the years, was the mother of his children, was very loyal to him.  He could have been quite upset she was dead even though he wanted and needed in his mind that she be dead.  So maybe the tears were real in that moment.  They just didn’t last long.

Otoh, if he had just lain in bed next to her dead body for at least two hours and maybe 5…..feels like lots of time to prepare himself, so more likely to be an act.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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8:59 a.m. So it’s understood: Lori’s hair was stuck on a piece of duct tape with JJ’s body.

8:55 a.m. Thomas asks Coleman about her educational background and the standards Bode must follow to be an accredited agency.

8:53 a.m. Wood has no further questions. John Thomas now questioning Coleman.

8:52 a.m. “The partial DNA profile matched the DNA profile provided from Lori Vallow Daybell,” Coleman says. “The probability of randomly selecting a random individual in relation to that profile 1 is 71 billion.” This hair belonged to Lori.

8:50 a.m. Coleman says a portion of the hair was put into a test tube. It went through a series of washes to get rid of any extraneous DNA on the hair. “We were trying to focus on the hair.” Additional chemicals were added to the sample and it then went through heat and cool samples. “We determined how much DNA was in the sample and then made lots and lots of copies.” 

8:49 a.m. Boyce says Coleman needs to testify from personal memory and she can refer to her notes but can’t read them. Coleman says in May 2022, she received three DNA profiles from Lori Vallow Daybell, Tylee Ryan and Melanie Gibb. She also received several items of evidence including a hair attached to an adhesive

This could be transfer, so not a smoking gun.  A fingerprint would be better,  but it is something besides circumstantial I believe.

Could someone familiar with the law explain why referring to notes is forbidden in some cases?  It seems absolutely stupid to ask an expert to only depend on memory.  I assume it is to make it harder to lie, to keep one’s story straight, but reporting results is not something like that.  Notes made at the moment will always be better than memory imo as far as something like an autopsy or other testing.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/05/day-19-live-updates-lori-daybells-hair-was-stuck-on-a-piece-of-duct-tape-used-to-wrap-jj-dna-expert-says/

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9:34 a.m. To clarify what I reported earlier: the tape with Lori’s hair was found on the outside of the black plastic bag wrapped around JJ’s body. We know that duct tape was used on JJ’s wrists, ankles and mouth. More tape was also used on the plastic wrapped around his body.

 

[Calm]

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10:07 a.m. The recording device belonged to the Rexburg Police Department and they have copies of the conversations.

10:05 a.m. Blake asks Wright if he met with Ian Pawlowski. He says yes, he spoke with Ian at the Rexburg Police Department on Dec. 5, 2019. After the conversation, Wright says his concern for the childrens’ safety increased. “He was asked to consensually record conversations he was a party to,” Wright says. Ian agreed and recorded some conversations he had with Melani P., his wife, and Lori, Alex and Chad

 

[Calm]

From Pretty Lies:

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Mr Thomas is asking if how she tested would be acceptable for the FBI with the loci. The lab requires 3 and the FBI requires 20. Each lab has a minimal threshold of how many loci they need to test. #lorivallow…

This is pretty technical testimony and Mr Thomas has me confused at bit but ultimately he is saying that she is missing 13 of. the 20 ileal the FBI would require and he says that's a lot. #lorivallow…

Thomas points out 17 out of the 20 profiles the FBI requires were missing

I did not understand this point from Eaton’s notes.  Redirect was over why using partials for hair dna is okay, I believe.

Looks like the issue is Thomas is using Apple and oranges as the 20 is used for something else.

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There's a different standard to get a profile in the FBI database than to just get the profile for comparison. She didn't need the FBI threshold to get what she needed

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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10:36 a.m. An overhead map is now shown of the apartment complex and Wright points out the distance between Alex and Lori’s apartments – around 80 meters. 

10:34 a.m. Wright says he observed all the activity on Alex’s device for the month of September. Alex was often in Lori’s apartment from around 8 – midnight and then the device would go into Alex’s apartment. It would stay there until morning or sometimes at late as noon. “This was the only time I observed it go to apartment 175 between the hours of midnight and 6 a.m.”

10:33 a.m. There are several data points on Alex’s device in Lori’s apartment early on Sept. 9 – from 2:42 a.m. until 8:49 a.m.

10:31 a.m. After Alex’s device returns to Lori’s apartment, it goes to a Maverik gas station for ten minutes around 9:43 p.m. It then goes back to Lori’s apartment from and then to Alex’s apartment.

10:29 a.m. There was a stop at (or very close to) a BBQ restaurant in West Yellowstone. The vehicle arrived back at Lori’s Rexburg at 8:37 p.m. Wright says he could not identify much of anything to investigate with the Yellowstone trip – everything seemed normal and Wright is confidence Tylee returned to the apartment.

If I don’t provide a link, it’s from the East Idaho News day of the trial link I provide at the beginning of the day’s notes.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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10:49 a.m. We now see a slide showing the activity from Alex’s device on Sept. 22 – the last time JJ was seen alive. “There was some traffic with the device,” Wright says. Alex went back and forth between Lori’s apartment and his apartment between 4:29 p.m. and 12:11 a.m.

10:48 a.m. A warrant was then obtained by the Rexburg Police Department to search the property. Wright says human remains were found buried near the data points – the remains of Tylee Ryan.

10:47 a.m. Coupled with the text and data points by the fire pit, “this certainly set up some red flags for us.”

10:46 a.m. We now see the raccoon text Chad sent to Tammy on Monday, Sept. 9 at 11:53 a.m. telling her he had been burning limb debris when he saw a raccoon and had to kill and bury it in the family pet cemetery. 

10:44 a.m. Wright again mentions the gate allowed a vehicle to drive onto the back part of the property.

10:41 a.m. There were four major data points Wright observed during the time period Alex was at the Daybell property. A data point appears at the shed at 9:21 a.m. with a 6-meter radius margin of error. At 9:22 a.m., there is a data point at a gate into the property (you can drive onto the property at this gate). No quality data points are received until 9:39 a.m. and another data point is received at 10:57 a.m.

10:40 a.m. Numerous data points were recorded between 9:15 a.m. – 9:45 a.m. at the Daybell residence, Wright says. Lori is taking notes as Wright speaks. Some of the jurors are too. By 11:45 a.m., the device is traveling southbound and returns to Rexburg. At 11:52 a.m., it stops at Del Taco for ten minutes. 

10:38 a.m. On Monday, Sept. 9, the device departs Alex’s apartment at 9 a.m. It travels north to Chad Daybell’s house – eight miles north of the apartment – and arrives around 9:15 a.m. 

10:37 a.m. Other data points were recorded on Alex’s phone at 4:37 a.m., 4:39 a.m., 4:41 a.m., 5:14 a.m., 6:47 a.m. and 8:49 a.m

 

[Kenngo1969]

@Calm

Re: Referring, In Court, to Notes: Allowed or Not?

This comes with the usual, exceedingly tiresome disclaimer.  (I really ought to look into taking the Bar ... somewhere ... if only to get the chance [however remote the possibility] of not having to deliver this disclaimer.   )  I am not a lawyer.  This post is not legal advice.  It is general opinion and commentary only.  Anyone needing legal advice should contact an attorney who is licensed to practice where the matter arose.

Hearsay is an out of court statement that is made to prove the truth of the matter asserted.  Generally, hearsay is inadmissible, although many attorneys and commentators have remarked that since there are so many exceptions to the rule, it ought to read, essentially, "Hearsay is admissible ... except in these few instances."  Notes are hearsay, because they are made out of court, yet, many times, they are presented in court in an attempt to prove the truth of the matter asserted.  (Though the notes tnemselves probably wouldn't be admitted into evidence: More likely, some kind of an official document, such as an official report or an affidavit, might be.)

To many, this is probably going to seem like a distinction without a difference, and the hearsay rule is (or the hearsay rules are) the bane of even many an attorney's existence, as even attorneys, despite their additional training (or perhaps even because of it, given the manner in which it might "traverse [poorly] the deep and voluminous weeds"), don't understand the rule. 

The foregoing having been said, however, if notes are used to refresh a witness's present recollection, generally, the witness will be allowed to refer to those notes, because, even though the witness referred to notes, his or her recollection of events is reliable enough that the notes are merely an aid, and the witness is testifying firsthand to events in which he or she was involved.  If, however, a witness has no firsthand recollection of an event and is relying completely upon his or her notes to reconstruct the event in court, that would be considered hearsay ... because the notes, which constitute the crux of the witness's testimony, were made outside of court and because the witness has no firsthand recollection of his or her own.

OK, those of you who ARE licensed: Let me have it.  How did I do?

[Calm]

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11:49 a.m. Back to the cell phones Alex bought at Walmart. He bought one on Oct. 8, but it was not activated until Oct. 9 at 1:20 p.m. Ten messages were sent between this device and Chad Daybell between 7:13 p.m. to 10:30 p.m. Although Alex’s other phone was recorded as staying at his apartment that entire night, the new phone was texting Chad.

11:47 a.m. A data point is recorded at a canal behind Chad’s house. “The road is fairly narrow, and there is no shoulder. I was looking for a possible location where this person could have gone or if there was a vehicle nearby where it might have parked. There really was no place for a vehicle … but right here near this canal, there’s a little pull-off that would fit one vehicle.”

11:45 a.m. A map is shown on the big screen, and Wright uses a laser pointer to show the spots where data points were recorded by Alex’s phone on the evening of Oct. 9. 

RELATED | Tammy Daybell reported a masked man shot at her with a paintball gun 10 days before her ‘suspicious’ death

11:41 a.m. On Oct. 9, Alex’s device leaves Sportman’s Warehouse at 4:12 p.m. and travels north from Ammon to the vicinity of Chad’s house. It doesn’t stop but drives by and continues onto U.S. Highway 20. The driver turns around and drives past the Daybell home again before returning to Alex’s apartment at 5:16 p.m. The device remains at the apartment until 11:28 a.m. the next day.

11:40 a.m. Wright says several searches were conducted on the HomerJMaximus account on Oct. 9, 2019. One was “Frogg Togg sizing for pants.” 

11:39 a.m. We now see an image of the three-hole ski mask Alex bought (not the actual mask but the same one that was inside the store when Wright investigated). Now we see the Frogg Togg pants that were bought – again, not the actual pants but a pair that was inside the store when Wright visited.

11:34 a.m. When Wright was investigating at the store, he learned a camo beanie listed on the receipt was no longer in stock, but all of the other items were. We now see photos on the screen showing the glove Alex bought (not the exact glove but one that was in the store when Wright visited). The glove has a mitten portion that you can pull over your fingers or you can keep off. If the mitten portion isn’t folded over, you can use your fingers.

11:31 a.m. Wright went to Sportsman’s Warehouse and pulled all the receipts during the time Alex was there. “One particular receipt caught my attention,” he says. There were around 60 receipts, and most were paid with credit or debit cards. The one that caught Wright’s attention was a cash receipt. There were five items on the receipt – including a pair of Frogg Togg rain pants. The property manager at Alex’s apartment had a pair of Frogg Togg pants in their possession. There was also a ski mask, soft drink and gloves on the receipt.

 

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

@Calm

Re: Referring, In Court, to Notes: Allowed or Not?

This comes with the usual, exceedingly tiresome disclaimer.  (I really ought to look into taking the Bar ... somewhere ... if only to get the chance [however remote the possibility] of not having to deliver this disclaimer.   )  I am not a lawyer.  This post is not legal advice.  It is general opinion and commentary only.  Anyone needing legal advice should contact an attorney who is licensed to practice where the matter arose.

Hearsay is an out of court statement that is made to prove the truth of the matter asserted.  Generally, hearsay is inadmissible, although many attorneys and commentators have remarked that since there are so many exceptions to the rule, it ought to read, essentially, "Hearsay is admissible ... except in these few instances."  Notes are hearsay, because they are made out of court, yet, many times, they are presented in court in an attempt to prove the truth of the matter asserted.  (Though the notes tnemselves probably wouldn't be admitted into evidence: More likely, some kind of an official document, such as an official report or an affidavit, might be.)

To many, this is probably going to seem like a distinction without a difference, and the hearsay rule is (or the hearsay rules are) the bane of even many an attorney's existence, as even attorneys, despite their additional training (or perhaps even because of it, given the manner in which it might "traverse [poorly] the deep and voluminous weeds"), don't understand the rule. 

The foregoing having been said, however, if notes are used to refresh a witness's present recollection, generally, the witness will be allowed to refer to those notes, because, even though the witness referred to notes, his or her recollection of events is reliable enough that the notes are merely an aid, and the witness is testifying firsthand to events in which he or she was involved.  If, however, a witness has no firsthand recollection of an event and is relying completely upon his or her notes to reconstruct the event in court, that would be considered hearsay ... because the notes, which constitute the crux of the witness's testimony, were made outside of court and because the witness has no firsthand recollection of his or her own.

OK, those of you who ARE licensed: Let me have it.  How did I do?

So when it say refer and read, it means the expert can look at them, but not read them aloud?  I was confused.  I thought it meant they could say “it’s in my notes” but not look at/read them themselves.  Thank you for clearing that up.

[Calm]

Lots of reports on cell phone data. It was speculated on WS that AC might have hung out at the Salem church, which was 2.5 miles from the Daybell home, in order to warn CD when his son Garth was heading home.  Others speculate he was hanging out there in case Daybell needed help to kill Tammy.

I wonder if there is enough time between texting for AC to have walked to the house and back, if that was a possibility.

There was quite a bit of bruising on Tammy’s body. The medical examiner didn’t said what caused the bruising, but said it likely happened before death and close to the time of death. There were some on her trunk and arms. I assume they will demonstrate what kind of restraint might cause this that would prevent her from breathing.  I hope she wasn’t conscious while he killed her, but the ME said there was nothing in toxicology besides the prescribed tramadol.  I am assuming that means there wasn’t enough tramadol for an overdose.  Maybe this will get clarified tomorrow.

There was no sign of seizures or other issues. If she had seizures, besides indications in the brain there would likely be signs inside the mouth as well. Doctor said seizures were not cause of death. Asphyxiation due to homicide. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Lots of reports on cell phone data. It was speculated on WS that AC might have hung out at the Salem church, which was 2.5 miles from the Daybell home, in order to warn CD when his son Garth was heading home.  Others speculate he was hanging out there in case Daybell needed help to kill Tammy.

I wonder if there is enough time between texting for AC to have walked to the house and back, if that was a possibility.

There was quite a bit of bruising on Tammy’s body. The medical examiner didn’t said what caused the bruising, but said it likely happened before death and close to the time of death. There were some on her trunk and arms. I assume they will demonstrate what kind of restraint might cause this that would prevent her from breathing.  I hope she wasn’t conscious while he killed her, but the ME said there was nothing in toxicology besides the prescribed tramadol.  I am assuming that means there wasn’t enough tramadol for an overdose.  Maybe this will get clarified tomorrow.

There was no sign of seizures or other issues. If she had seizures, besides indications in the brain there would likely be signs inside the mouth as well. Doctor said seizures were not cause of death. Asphyxiation due to homicide. 

I must have missed it, why did Tammy take tramadol? I looked it up and it is for continuous pain. This breaks my heart for her. I really like her sister and feel I'd like Tammy as well. She was probably the anchor for her family, and the one carrying the load it feels. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I must have missed it, why did Tammy take tramadol? I looked it up and it is for continuous pain. This breaks my heart for her. I really like her sister and feel I'd like Tammy as well. She was probably the anchor for her family, and the one carrying the load it feels. 

She got it for a sprained wrist.  CD mentioned it right after insisting she never went to doctors.

 We don’t know how long ago it was prescribed but from the way the ME was talking, it didn’t appear to be an issue. Unusual choice to be given for something like a sprain these days, imo, but maybe she had problems with ibuprofen and other painkillers. 
 

I am really curious if the tramadol made her feel sick. This could be what got inflated by CD in convincing their kids she was feeling sick. 
 

I am really wondering what her kids are thinking tonight. Given their loyalty, I am wondering if the prosecution was concerned about warning them ahead of time what they would hear today so it was brand new to them too.

I wonder if today will be classified as lies because they just know Tammy was sick and if their dad said she had seizures, of course she did.  Or if their minds will start to doubt hearing that finding that the seizures were a figment of their dad’s imagination and that he himself or someone he allowed to restrained her forcibly enough to cause significant bruising while preventing her from breathing, maybe (I am totally guessing) by a plastic bag over her head like JJ…minus the duct tape of course. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/05/day-20-live-updates-relief-society-president-testifies-about-visits-she-received-from-chad-and-lori-following-tammy-daybells-death/
 

I may do highlights later, but for now I am just going to put up most crucial info, life and all.

PS:. There is speculation on WS that CD rolled Tammy out of the bed to provide an explanation for the bruising.  Might not have thought of the fact or even known it that one doesn’t bruise after death…at least not hours after death.  Post mortem bruising is bruising that shows up up to a day after death, but the cause of the bruise happened before death if I understand the process correctly. May research this more later and correct myself if wrong.  Feel free to provide more info if you know it.

I plan on reading this as it looks like a good resource:

https://jcp.bmj.com/content/54/5/348#

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9 a.m. Thomas asks Christensen why he associated the injuries with asphyxia. The doctor responds it was based on the locations of the bruises.

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9:11 a.m. Blake: “Would you expect a dead person to roll out of bed?” Christensen: “Not without some sort of force.” He says he has seen dead bodies shift positions but it’s usually from decomposition and after the person has been dead for quite some time. Blake has no further questions.

9:09 a.m. Blake: “While you can’t say for sure, did those bruises appear consistent with someone who was restrained?” Christensen: “They are consistent with that.”

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9:37 a.m. There was no slowdown in Tammy’s activity in the month leading up to her death, Mattingly testifies. He says he never found anything to support she was having health issues but he did learn Tammy was involved in clogging, Zumba and was preparing for a 5K that she completed just before school started in 2019.

9:35 a.m. We now see a screen showing the total number of steps Tammy took each month from January through October 2019. Total steps for the year was 2,787,647. Mattingly says compared to averages, Tammy’s steps were a little below average in the first part of the year but she was above average the rest of the year. “Tammy was very active up until the time of her death.”

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10:09 a.m. Alice [RS pres] had seen Tammy the previous Wednesday, and she seemed fine. Tammy did not complain of any health issues and she never had a coughing fit. Alice asked the kids if they had breakfast and they had not. Alice said she and her husband would go get them breakfast. As she got up to leave, Chad told her the funeral was going to be Tuesday and a memorial on Wednesday. Alice said this seemed very quick, and she asked if Chad planned this – meaning if Tammy and Chad had previously planned their funerals, etc. Chad responded, “No.” Alice says it caught her off guard.

10:07 a.m. At 7 a.m. on Oct. 19, Emma called Alice sobbing and said her mom had died. Chad took the phone from Emma and told Alice not to tell anyone and wait for about an hour. Alice told Chad she needed to call the bishop. Chad told her not to call the bishop – but she still did. Alice went over to the house around 8:30 a.m. and Chad met them at the door. Chad gave her a hug and all the kids were there with their spouses except for Mark. “The children were stunned. They were all on the couch and chairs and they could hardly speak. They were stunned. Chad was not stunned.”

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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10:16 a.m. Alice says the kids were eating and didn’t question their father about him moving. On the following Friday, Alice stopped in to see Emma and Garth. Emma was crying, she missed her mom and she said Chad “didn’t want anything to do with her or her siblings.” Alice then went to Garth’s house. “He said he was hoping he wouldn’t lose his dad.” Alice says Emma got very sick and lost a lot of weight. The ward and school district went bringing in meals to the children who were living at Chad and Tammy’s house. 

10:14 a.m. Alice did not go to the memorial service the next day because they were at the funeral. The Relief Society presidencies and Bishop took a meal that night to Chad’s house. Chad was there and said he was moving out because he couldn’t be there. Chad said he was moving to Rexburg to a friend who had a condo. He said his friend was hardly ever there and was letting Chad stay there. “He called the friend a ‘he.'” Alice thought it was a male friend. 

10:12 a.m. Alice says the funeral was nice, and the kids all spoke. “They did a good job,” she recalls. “They did really nice talks and tributes to her.” Chad spoke last. “He gave a good talk too. Maybe more like a church talk than a spouse would speak about their spouse.”

10:11 a.m. Alice went to Tammy’s funeral in Springville. “I had to tell her goodbye,” she says as she starts to cry. She grabs a tissue and apologized for crying. “She looked good. I had to see her.”

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10:58 a.m. Chad told the Gilberts he was going to go to Hawaii to write a book. Chad said they were going to get married, but they didn’t know when. They mentioned they were taking Chad’s kids to Disneyland around Thanksgiving. Nothing was said of Lori’s kids. “I had the impression that Lori had no other children, that she was an empty nester. I thought the daughter who had died was like an older daughter who died of cancer or illness or something.”

10:56 a.m. Alice asked Lori if she had been married. Lori said her husband died of a heart attack. Chad said Lori recently lost a daughter, and Alice expressed her sympathies for Lori. Alice says Chad was not flirtatious or affectionate with Tammy. Alice recalls asking Lori if she was used to the cold because, in October 2019, there was an extreme, hard, early frost. The potato farmers were getting their harvest done early, so Gilbert remembers how cold it was. This was the week of Oct. 26, 2019.

10:55 a.m. Chad brought Lori over to meet the Gilberts. “They came in and sat on the couch. They were quite affectionate with each other,” she recalls. “It was abnormal for us to see Chad that way. His arm was around her; he had his arm over her legs. She was giggling and laughing. For my husband and I, we were embarrassed just because we hadn’t seen Chad that way. They looked like teenagers.”

10:53 a.m. Lori was not with Chad when she visited the Gilberts. Alice says she and her husband work at the temple on Tuesday night. They were waiting in a room one Tuesday night, and Chad tapped her on the shoulder and asked Alice to come in the hallway. Alice met Lori and her niece Melani. “It was awkward,” Alice says.

10:51 a.m. Alice says she and her husband reached out to visit Chad on Oct. 26 after Tammy’s death. Chad said he would come to their house. “He came over to our place, and I made cookies. He came in and sat in the kitchen. We asked how he was doing. He said, ‘Actually, I’m going very good.’ He said he met the woman he was going to marry.” Alice and her husband were shocked. Chad went on to say how beautiful Lori was and said they met at a conference in St. George. They asked for her name, and Chad didn’t want to say but eventually he said Lori Vallow.

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11:13 a.m. Alice then recalls overhearing Chad tell someone, “They think I killed my wife.” Blake has no further questions. 

11:10 a.m. During his visit to the Gilberts, Alice confronted Chad about the fact that he told her Lori’s daughter had died. Chad denied telling her this. She knew the kids were missing and said to Chad, “Didn’t Tylee deserve a life? A car? A boyfriend?” Chad responded, “She didn’t like people, and she didn’t like me.” Alice was struck that Chad used the past tense.

11:06 a.m. Blake asks for a sidebar after Thomas objects to some of her questions.

11:05 a.m. After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded. Alice said they had a daughter coming to live with them, and they didn’t have room. When Lori’s bond hearing was scheduled, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if they would put their property up for bond. The Gilberts said they would think about it. Chad left. The next day Chad texted and said he had arranged for a bondswoman to come and talk with them.

 

[Calm]

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11:36 a.m. Todd says he observed Tammy at church, and she never appeared to have failing health. Chad and Tammy often sat up in the front of the building. They were there as a family. As time went on, they slowly moved back and by the time of June 2019 happened, they were sitting clear in the back. “They seemed a little distant from each other, and Chad was talking less to me about stuff. He said people talking about preparations was getting old, so he was taking a break.”

11:34 a.m. The Gilberts arrived at Chad’s house around 8:15 to 8:30 a.m. Todd mentioned the vision Chad had told him earlier in the year actually happened. He says Chad turned his back to his kids and somewhat whispered to Todd, “Yes, it did.”

Todd is the husband of Alice.  CD had told him he had a vision that Tammy was going to die in Feb 2019.

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11:38 a.m. After Tammy’s funeral, Chad told Gilbert that he was moving in with a friend who had an apartment on Pioneer Road. At Tammy’s funeral, Gilbert says Chad didn’t seem sad. “He seemed like he could handle everything OK, and then in the funeral when he spoke, which personally I thought was odd too because most people don’t do that when their spouse dies, he did show some emotions and spoke for some time.”

CD couldn’t pass up the chance for an audience even to play the role of the grieving husband.

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11:47 a.m. Chad and Lori never said anything about Lori having a minor son. Around Thanksgiving, Chad and Lori visited again and said they just got married. They showed the Gilberts all of their wedding photos

They really thought they could get away with it even when acting over the top in front of people.  Maybe they decided it would make more sense to people they got married quickly if they looked like head over heels, love at first sight….which works until one finds out this happened a year before his wife died.

[Calm]

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Emma was crying, she missed her mom and she said Chad “didn’t want anything to do with her or her siblings.” Alice then went to Garth’s house. “He said he was hoping he wouldn’t lose his dad.” Alice says Emma got very sick and lost a lot of weight. The ward and school district went bringing in meals to the children who were living at Chad and Tammy’s house. 

So he abandoned his kids almost immediately after Tammy dies, but they won’t abandon him.  He doesn’t deserve the loving family he had.  I feel so bad for them.  I am assuming Emma has to live in that home, but maybe she is choosing to do so to be near to her mother and to the family they had before her dad destroyed them.  I wish people wouldn’t treat them as criminals, but I also understand it because their actions supporting their father are suspicious.  But it sounds like CD did not go so far as telling his children he had a vision their mom was going to die…which doesn’t surprise me at all.

Also 

He had no empathy or even sympathy for his own children. Just had tunnel vision on his life with his lover.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

I know I wasn’t going to include the less important stuff, but I find this technical debate about admitting evidence interesting and thought someone else might too, so bringing it to general attention.

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1:36 p.m. Boyce says the podcast is relevant because in the indictment, the prosecutions referenced Lori’s religious beliefs and this podcast talks about her religious beliefs.

1:34 p.m. Boyce overrules the objection. He will allow Gilbert to hear a little of the podcast to authenticate it and then 40 minutes will be played. But if the state wants to review the podcast after it’s been authenticated, the court will stop the podcast at any point and let them review it. The first 40 minutes will be played.

1:32 p.m. Boyce says the witness himself may or may not be able to lay the foundation for this. “If Mr. Gilbert recognizes this as a podcast he has listened to and can confirm it was the podcast he listened to before, it would allow enough of a foundation for the court to potentially admit the podcast.” 

1:31 p.m. The recording is not on the state’s exhibit list. Archibald said the podcast was disclosed in discovery but they did not put it on their exhibit list because “we did not know Mr. Gilbert was going to say what he said.”

1:30 p.m. Blake says there is no relevance to admitting the podcast because Gilbert simply shared some religious beliefs. “We would request if the court adamits this exhibit, we take a recess to give the state a chance to review it.”

1:28 p.m. Blake says the state objects for multiple reasons. She says there is a lack of foundation, the witness testified about a podcast he heard – “there is no indication he was present to authenticate the recording was true and accurate. He has not indicated a date or time when the podcast was made. He has not indicated the date and time he heard it. He had not indicated which media where he heard it.” Blake says the podcast contains hearsay – none of the speakers on the podcast are here other than Lori. “This appears to be an attempt by the defendant to try and get statements in without taking the stand.”

1:26 p.m. Archibald says playing the podcast will provide foundation in the case. He says the first 40 minutes are distinct in that all four of the speakers identify themselves and their history – “and then it repeats itself.” Archibald says he would be ok with playing the first 40 minutes rather than the entire podcast.

1:25 p.m. Archibald says admitting the exhibit will help educate the jury in the religious beliefs. “Mr. Gilbert testified through questions from the state that Chad Daybell told him about dreams and vision. He was teaching gospel topics and religious subjects.”

1:22 p.m. Archibald says the podcast was recorded on Nov. 4, 2018. Melanie Gibb welcomes everyone. She speaks for four minutes. Thor then speaks for 14 minutes about his hard life and finding God. Jason Mow then speaks for 13 minutes. He introduces himself as a retired police officer and now a motivational speaker. He talks about being down in the dumps and then finding Jesus. Lori Vallow is the next speaker. She talks for nine minutes. She introduces herself and talks about her former husband Joe Ryan abusing her children and how finding Jesus and attending the temple helped her escape her scenario. Jason, Melanie, Thor, Lori, even Zulema speaks and asks questions. “It’s a podcast that I believe this witness listened to since he identified the names, he identified Lori Vallow, Melanie Gibb, Thor and Jason Mow,” Archibald says.

1:21 p.m. Sidenote: I have reached out and attempted to interview Jason Mow and Thor a few times over the years. Neither one has expressed any interest. 

1:20 p.m. Defense wants the entire one-hour, 49 minute podcast admitted as evidence and played for the jury. The prosecution does not want it admitted. Jason Mow and Thor recorded podcasts with Lori and Melanie Gibb.

1:19 p.m. Boyce says we need to hear a motion outside the presence of the jury. Boyce asks the jurors to leave the courtroom.

1:16 p.m. Archibald asks to play a podcast featuring Jason Mow, Lori, Melanie Gibb and Thor. Blake asks for a sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom.

1:13 p.m. Archibald asks Gilbert who Jason Mow is. “He’s a man in Arizona that was involved in the podcast. I don’t know a real lot about him,” Gilbert responds. Archibald asks who Melanie Gibb is. Gilbert says it’s Lori’s friend. Gilbert doesn’t remember anyone else on the podcast other than Lori. “They interviewed Chad one time and we heard that.” Archibald asks about Thor and Gilbert is familiar with him.

1:12 p.m. Archibald asks about “Preparing a People” conferences and podcasts Gilbert listened to. “I know Lori was involved in a podcast with Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow.”

1:11 p.m. Archibald asks Gilbert who Chad’s target audience was for his books. “People who are into preparation, being prepared,” Gilbert says. “Being prepared to be able to survive the bad things as they go along. If you’re prepared, you’ll be able to handle them a lot better than if you’re not.”

1:10 p.m. “I feel that he thought a lot of that stuff was going to happen that way and that’s why he wrote it that way. I think he thought it was going to be real life,” Gilbert says. The books were about the end of the world – bad things would happen and then Jesus would come.

1:09 p.m. “The Times of Turmoil” was a series Chad wrote about Gilbert. “When you read these books with your name in it as Brother Gilbert, was that flattery or an insult?” Archibald says. “I think it was flattery. He told me beforehand he was going to have me in one of the books so I knew it was coming,” Gilbert responds.

1:07 p.m. Gilbert says Chad would sometimes talks with him about his visions. “Did you believe he was telling you the truth or that he was full of crap?” Archibald asks. Gilbert says he was open to listening but wasn’t sure what to think. Archibald now asks Gilbert about a book Chad wrote about him – Brother Gilbert.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

There is speculation on W s that the Gilberts moved to Rexburg because they were Daybell’s followers.  I find that highly unlikely unless she is lying as I would think a member of AVOW and especially one involved in Daybell’s group would have known of PaP and yet she says they didn’t until after the move.

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Gilbert says she learned about Preparing a People after seeing a brochure in Rexburg.

Daybell told them about the podcasts himself after Tammy died, so it sounds like it was curiosity about his new love that may have led to at least the husband listening to a couple of podcasts.

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After Lori was arrested in Hawaii, Chad visited the Gilberts and asked if he could live in one of their spare bedrooms. He said his house was too crowded.

So he didn’t want to face his children he had dumped for an affair.  I wonder if the kids knew about his request or if he was all gushy about being back in the arms of his loving family to them.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

The podcast is the usual stuff from fingers (I am laughing I gink I am familiar enough with it to label something “the usual stuff”, but they do repeat behaviours and language a lot, don’t know if intentional or not.  Same thing appends with mainstream stuff and people outside the Church, imitation of those you associate with.

I don’t find it new or interesting, just more her self aggrandizing, so not posting.

[Tacenda]

Listening to Gilbert's testimony now, and something came to mind during it. How many children were in the house when this took place, at what time did she die, was it in the middle of the night and could that be why no one knew what was going on, did Chad wake up his son and tell him, so maybe he could get out of calling 911? But then he interjected during the call, maybe he thought his son was blowing his cover. Sorry I have these questions, I missed some things.

[Calm]

I do think CD grabbed the phone because at first he was thinking it was better for the dispatch to hear him moaning and groaning his pain and shock in the background, but then changed his mind when Garth got on the phone because he might give too much info.  Harder to interrupt or manipulate someone when they are focused on trying to listen on the phone.  You tend to try and block out what people are saying around you.

Garth got home late (I thought it was for work), but I don’t know if we know exactly what time.  He agreed or said nothing when CD said Garth also saw his mom throwing up at around 2 or 2:30 iirc. And given the time AC drove off, I am guessing Garth was home by midnight.

I believe just Garth was in the home, no one has said anything about his wife, so I am thinking he is not married.  I believe he is a teacher.  Another son was on a mission (Mark I think), I believe Emma and her family were renting the house across the street.  She was there by the time the coroner got there as she was the one insisting there be no autopsy.  There is another son, Mark and another daughter, Leah.  I think the youngest is Mark, but it might be Seth.  See the picture here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chad-daybell-children-claim-he-was-fooled-lori-vallow-48-hours/#:~:text=Chad and Tammy Daybell's five,Garth Daybell and Emma Murray.

[Calm]

I am reading on Reddit a claim Garth recently got married.  He apparently married a former student (he was a high school substitute teacher). He is ten years older than her. (They got married over two years ago)
 

Weirdness just keeps coming…

Edited May 3, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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9:04 a.m. Chad and Audrey then started to talk on the phone. She began chatting with Lori on the phone about religious things and spiritual experiences. Audrey recalls talking to Lori about her move to Rexburg. “A few times in the fall, I asked her how her daughter was doing. When I stayed in her house in November 2018, I met her daughter for a few minutes so in the fall of 2019, I asked every once in a while, ‘How’s Tylee doing?’ because she was at college. Lori said, “She doesn’t talk to me much these days.'”

Kind of hard to talk when you’re dead.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/05/day-21-live-updates-vallow-daybell-trial-continues-with-new-witnesses-expected-to-be-called/
 

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9:18 a.m. Audrey: “When I heard Chad Daybell say something to the effect of why is the body still alive or something like that, I realized that they must have taken things even further. They didn’t intend for the person to be helped – they didn’t want the person to live.”

And yet she still was friends with them?

I wonder if CD was originally grooming her (he asked to be her friend on FB and would call and talk with her, I think before he hooked up with LVD).  Audrey is in her 30’s and single.

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Chad told Audrey she was married to Jesus. Her name was Joanna when she was married to Jesus. “When Chad DAybell told you in a previous life your name was JKoanna and you had been married to Jesus, what did yo think of that?” Audrey: “At the time I thought it could be true because I trusted him.”

 

[Calm]

Oh my gosh….

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10:08 a.m. Audrey says she did not ever mention this before because she was scared. Archibald forcefully pushes Audrey that this never came up in previous testimony and she stands by her claims. He has nothing further. Rawlings asks if she can ask one more question. Boyce says no. We are now headed to a morning break. Back around 10:40 a.m.

10:07 a.m. Archibald now questioning Audrey and reminds her that she promised, under oath, to tell the whole truth. Archibald said none of this testimony came up in the grand jury proceedings. “Nothing of this sort was talked about. You want the jury to believe that you just didn’t make this last crap up?” Audrey says, “I did not make it up.” 
 

 

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10:04 a.m. Audrey: “As soon as I turned to go upstairs, she started laughing – like if you were laughing at someone. She said, ‘You’re so naive and too trusting. You’re like a little child. You think the world is all unicorns and rainbows. You go around helping people and serving them. Well I’ve got news for you. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be so kind. Then she threatened to kill me. She said she would cut me up and wasn’t in the mental place to do it but would get herself in a place to do it. There would be blood and bleach and something about trash bags. She would bury me in a place nobody would ever find me.”

I am leaning towards not believing her, but I suppose she could have been scared.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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Archibald - did she say I killed my kids, I killed Charles, I will kill you too? Audrey said she talked about being at the scene talking about seeing someone taking their last breaths