Daybell-Vallow trial

[Calm]

Melani did not confide in him until immediately after they were married.  My guess is she waited until married because of spousal privilege. 

[Calm]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:09 AM, Calm said:

So LVD did go to the family outing at Knott’s Berry Farm after all.  Fun times.

According to her cousin in one of several interviews she is doing, the Knott Berry Farm was a big deal with the Coxes.  Makes me think this was LVD’s idea or she overruled another place.

I didn’t think anyone outside of California knew of Knotts, so I was surprised they went there.  You go to Knotts when you can’t afford Disneyland…or so was it’s reputation among my friends.

But apparently there are some who prefer it, at least nowadays:

https://www.pullingcurls.com/knotts-berry-farms-vs-disneyland/

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Speculation from WS:  AC’s device and therefore likely AC goes to a hotel by the Snake River after he leaves the church near the Daybells that night.  A poster is thinking maybe CD met him after he killed Tammy and AC disposed of the evidence in the Snake River.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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Ian says there's no shortage of people in Melani's life who will take advantage of her. Thomas asks if Lori was taking advantage of Melani. Ian believes she was. Thomas asks how Lori has manipulated Melani specifically.

Including him perhaps?  I wonder how much Melani’s divorce settlement played in his decision to marry her ten days after he met her.
 

I will have to get the link later.  I am taking this off of WS.  Twitter appears to be down for many and they must be heading to the East Idaho News link because I can’t get that to load up for me.

added:. https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/05/day-22-live-updates-lori-and-chad-daybell-said-there-would-be-a-spiritual-attack-on-the-day-alex-cox-died-witness-says/

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Thomas asks if Ian ever remembers putting hands on Melani's head for a blessing while Lori and Chad were on the phone. He says he doesn't recall but if Thomas told him it happened, he would believe him. Thomas has no further questions.

Who wouldn’t remember something like this?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Tacenda, Tammy Daybell’s birthday today.  She would be 53.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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10:38 a.m. Melani Pawlowski will not testify today. She left Idaho yesterday. Ian has left the courthouse and is on his way home. It’s unclear if she has been released from her subpoena

Wouldn’t wait for her husband?  Maybe the sitter is antsy…

[Calm]

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10:56 a.m. Ballard said Chad looked thinner and tanner in March from when she had last seen him in November. “He wrote on a sticky note Lori Ryan Daybell” when asked what his new wife’s name was. Ballard asked if there were any children that needed to be insured. Chad said no. Rawlings has no further questions.

10:53 a.m. Chad said he got married on Nov. 5. He said his new wife was incarcerated and he was really worried about something happening to her. Ballard said she didn’t qualify to enroll because it was outside of the 60-day window from the marriage date. Chad said they had moved from Hawaii. Moving into a new state is a qualifying event. Chad asked about dental coverage for himself, Lori and Mark.

I would love to know if Rawlings had heard about the missing children at that point when she asked him if there were any children needing to be insured.  And if that is a standard question or not.  This was after the big televised arrest and transport from Hawaii, but before the kids’ bodies were found.

[Calm]

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11:09 a.m. Chad visited Yancey the Monday morning after Tammy died two days previous. Over her career, Yancey has helped employee families about 15 times with life insurance. In her experience, it was unusual for Chad to come that soon to claim the life insurance. Yancey explained a life claim could not be submitted until they had a death certificate. Chad responded, “That’s ok. I’ve already ordered eight of them.” Yancey had never heard of someone ordering eight. At the most, she has heard three. Chad returned on Oct. 25 but Yancey was out of town so Chad was told to come back on Oct. 30.

This was for her life insurance.  She had just bumped it up a month before.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

The bible of New Age Mormons.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Someone on WS did some research but didn’t put up a link, so I found my own.

Others are speculating like me they used a bag on Tammy as well.  Besides the fact it was used on JJ, there is the fact that it could explain the lack of signs.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31564205/

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Death from plastic bag suffocation is unusual and rare in under-developed countries. Initially, deaths were accidental mostly of children but with time homicides, suicides and deaths in auto-erotic situations were noted. It is not always possible to discover the dynamics leading to the death especially when suicide is suspected. Often, the typical signs of asphyxia - petechial haemorrhages, facial congestion, oedema and cyanosis - are not there. 

Since some believe a bag would leave a mark, another suggested burking.

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In homicidal cases, the term burking is often ascribed to a killing method that involves simultaneous smothering and compression of the torso.[5] The term "burking" comes from the method William Burke and William Hare used to kill their victims during the West Port murders. They killed the usually intoxicated victims by sitting on their chests and suffocating them by putting a hand over their nose and mouth, while using the other hand to push the victim's jaw up. The corpses had no visible injuries, and were supplied to medical schools for money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphyxia

Edited May 5, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, Tammy Daybell’s birthday today.  She would be 53.

Thanks Calm, I hope she is with the angels. I think she is, and was one herself. On second thought, I believe she's with Tylee and JJ, they are with God/Jesus and the angels.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tacenda

[Calm]

Long debate over testimony of an FBI agent and his work on over 10,000 pages of online communications from LVD’s account.  
 

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8:56 a.m. Archibald asks if Hart has communicated with the FBI agent who has been sitting in the courtroom for most of the trial. Hart says no.

I wonder why the agent is there and if this is typical of cases where the FBI has been heavily involved.  Are they some sort of liaison or a PR person or what.  Just curious. 
 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/05/day-23-live-updates-testimony-resumes-in-lori-vallow-daybell-murder-case/

Now it is just explaining what the iCloud accounts were and the process used to examine them.
 

 

[Calm]

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10:52 a.m. Hart says there was communication and direct references to a large life insurance policy possessed by Charles Vallow as well as social security payments attributed to JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

10:51 a.m. Hart also found financial information along with information regarding the relationship between Alex Cox and Lori and Chad.

10:50 a.m. Hart says Chad and Lori used the word “obstacles” to describe JJ, Tylee, Charles and Tammy.

10:48 a.m. Hart discovered leads in the messages, such as Lori and Chad saying they wanted to get married and lead a life together. “There were several communications regarding JJ and Tylee that were relevant to their deaths. They discussed their deaths. After the affair began, there began to be communication regarding the deaths of Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

 

[Calm]

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The first slide is a line in the contact section of lori4style. It was saved under the name of Bishop Shumway on Oct. 28, 2018. The phone number was the known cell number for Chad Daybell.…

Chad and Lori met at a Preparing a People seminar on Oct. 26, 2018. The conference ended on Oct. 28. This was the first known electronic contact between the two, Hart says.

The first contact and already they were hiding their identity.  Imo proof they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Audrey testify she was supposed to act like a chaperone so nothing inappropriate happened iirc. Not exactly what her mission actually was it appears, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she convinced herself it was true.

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Hart says Chad told Audrey he was going to marry Lori and he wanted Audrey to act as the liaison between him and Lori until Tammy died.

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Smith asks Hart what "still working on it" means. Hart says he saw very frequent usage of that particular term. "We are working on things."…

That is a direct reference to the belief they were in a battle against zombies and dark entities so when they talked about working on something, they were referencing their efforts, Hart says.

I predict we will see references to “working on” the kids and Tammy and Charles at least.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

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On July 14, Chad to Lori: "Good morning my most beautiful Lili. Thanks for joining me in the shower this morning. Wow. Getting ready to leave for my meetings. Does noon your time look like a time we could talk? I love you so immensely that the whole universe knows it.…

And very soon the people on this little blue globe will know it too."

🤮
There is more explicit stuff.  The above is fantasy/portal stuff.  They were using the PaP conferences as a place or reason to hookup.  Doesn’t sound like they had much respect for the participants. Such egos, both of them.

Adjourned for the day.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

One of these speakers I know pretty well, and is the cousin of my former bishop and this guy is stalwart in the church with many higher up positions. I wonder how he must feel now, just knowing he was speaking with a sicko murderer like Chad. Also, the church and people in it, may need to stop with the personal revelation as well as leaders revelations being accurate because we see that it can lead to bad things. And what happened to discernment by bishops and stake presidents that even gave temple recommends to Lori and Chad, and allowed them over and over to attend.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

Omigosh, he spoke at this conference fairly recently. 

[Calm]

I had not been aware that CD had such a respected position in this community…probably because I just couldn’t believe it.  Still can’t.  I was watching HTC last night (this case may help me overcome my dislike of podcasts and such) and she played a clip where the James, who later said they hardly knew CD, are saying how they followed Chad, this fantastic guy, up to Rexburg.  From what I have read and listened to, there may be as many as five families who did, not including MP, LVD, and AV.  CD tried to get Zulema to move up as well as Melanie Gibb and David Warwick. David was apparently one of CD’s rivals who as far as he reports never associated with CD that much.  My guess is he was being nice to Melanie Gibb, his fiancée.  However, Gibb’s breakup and divorce happened in early to mid 2019 and so it may have been the first of the relationships LVD and CD orchestrated.  I look at MG when she is animated and she has a similar air to LVD, not the vulnerable, victimhood LVD is constantly exuding in everything I have seen her in, but a certain intensity.  She also has a similar look and there is a strong suggestion out there that Gibb was one of CD’s groupies.  But once LVD is hooked up with him, my guess is she asserts dominance and CD’s harem becomes her court, his women become her women.  MG herself states she hardly knew CD, but others say otherwise.

The guy comes across as little public presence, not someone who connects with others naturally.  He is not a good speaker and his writing is laughable.  I can’t see how his just telling people they were notable in previous lives and had a powerful role to play soon would draw so many to him and yet it did.  He plagiarized others’ experiences, so he didn’t even have the advantage of sincerity in telling his spiritual experiences.  

But then I am clueless about the appeal of many people who seem obviously superficial to me.  But as HTC mentioned, it may be more about how the manipulator makes people feel about themselves and less about how they feel about the manipulator.  Perhaps somehow they can make people feel they are who they really believe they are, their ideal self (ego ideal***) they picture themselves to be on the inside that if only they had a chance they could shine in front of everyone else.  That could be powerfully seductive if one could get lost in that fantasy.

***https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_ideal

It’s originally Freudian, so I am prone to discount it, but it actually sounds reasonable from wiki.  Been too long since Psych classes for me to remember nuances.

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Omigosh, he spoke at this conference fairly recently.

Of the names I know of the presenters, I am not impressed.

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Of the names I know of the presenters, I am not impressed.

Here's another one he spoke at with Roger K. Young. And there's a revelation by Roger he shared on FB below the advertisement. I am stalking FB today as one can tell. The revelation, feels so much like what Chad and Lori spoke about and was in 2018.

 

Early one morning two weeks ago as I was on a business trip, I was sitting and reading and pondering the scriptures and the events of the last days and what was coming, the following impressions came to my mind.

EARLY MORNING IMPRESSIONS:

7/25/2018

And it will come to pass, that the time given to the people of America to repent will pass and the wicked will gain control of the government again. And they will persecute those who believe in Jesus Christ and will not deny Him. And there will be a great inequality in the land, and there will be a division among the people and those who will not embrace evil will be few and they will be jailed and murdered and burdens will be laid upon their backs and many stripes.

And some will flee to the mountains for they will follow the prophet of God. And those who do not flee will have a day set aside by the wicked to be rounded up and jailed to be murdered and some will be murdered. And the cries of the people of God will rise up to His ears and plead to Him day and night for relief.

And because the people of America have knowingly rejected the God of the land who is Jesus Christ and have set aside the laws that God established, and sought for evil and sorceries and witchcrafts and have set before themselves graven images and commit many whoredoms insomuch that they exceed the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and murder the innocent, and have been lifted up in the pride of their hearts and have persecuted and murdered the humble followers of God, the enemies of America will be allowed to come in upon the wicked inhabitants of America and the prophecies concerning the cleansing of the wicked from off the promised land and the other Gentile nations will begin to be fulfilled in earnest. There will be contentions, and plagues, and storms, and droughts, and earthquakes and the remnants of Jacob will be as a lion among the flocks of sheep and they will destroy without mercy. There will be mobbings and roving armies and there will be none who will be safe upon the land except those who are guided and protected by the spirit of God. And more will flee to the safety of the Rocky mountains and they will find food and safety there, for there will come a great famine upon the land. A famine of bread and of water. And the wicked will be swept from off the face of the land in great numbers.

And peace will be established in the tops of the mountains. And the armies of God will be sent forth to build the city of God, yea even Zion the New Jerusalem. And the power of God will be with them and it will be greatly manifested before them and none shall stand before them for all who fight against Zion will be destroyed. And the army of Satan will be destroyed by the power of God as Pharaoh's army of old and the remainder of Satan's army will flee.

And the city of God and His Christ will be established, a city of light upon a hill for all the world to see and it will be in the center of the promised land. And Christ will come down and succor His people and heal their stripes. And the word will go forth, "Go ye out of Babylon; gather ye out from among the nations, from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Go ye forth unto the land of Zion, that the borders of my people may be enlarged, and that her stakes may be strengthened, and that Zion may go forth unto the regions round about." Yea, the cry will go forth among all people: "Awake and arise and go forth to meet the Bridegroom; behold and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord." And the Lord will come to his temple for it will be built and it will be glorious. And it will be a light unto all the world and the righteous will flee to it and it's gates will be open day and night and they will come singing the songs of Zion. And all the world will be at war but those of Zion will have peace. And the armies of the wicked will come against the city of God, but God will fight the battles of Zion and they shall be as a wisp of smoke and shall not stand.

And the armies of Satan will be gathered to Jerusalem, to the valley of Meggido. And they will fight against the two witnesses of Christ who will withstand their blows for a time and times. But, for a witness they will lay down their lives and the kingdom of Satan will rejoice. And Satan will sit upon the throne but for a moment and then after three days the life will return into the two witnesses. And they will rise up and the world will wonder and Satan will tremble. And the world will be cleansed by earthquake, plague and fire. And the sign of the Son of God will be in the heavens. And there will be a day, a night and a day given. And then He comes with the host of heaven and the wicked will tremble and flee before the wrath of God. And the first shall be the last to receive the salvation of God. And then His glory will be full upon the earth. And the righteous who serve God and His Christ day and night, who have kept the commandments of God and did not deny Him, will rise up. And those who have been redeemed will be saved. And the fury of the Glory of God will break forth upon the earth and all uncleanliness will be destroyed from off the face of the earth. And the city of Enoch will return and the righteous will fall upon each other's necks and weep for joy and they will be of one heart and one mind. And the earth will be as it was in the days of Adam and there shall be one land. And there will be a new heaven and there will be no night for the glory of God will be upon the earth seven fold and the Son of God will be the light of the world and every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. And the spirit of God will encircle the earth and the lamb shall be at peace with the lion and the lion shall eat straw as the ox. And the great work of the millenium will begin to forge anew the chain that had been broken. And Zion will grow and reach to the heavens.

It is a particular difficult time of testing... a long term testing.

Again, it is important to understand that there will be a lot of people who claim they support Jesus Christ in words, but, their actions...their fruits, so to speak will reveal their true natures. Some might even proclaim that they do miracles in the name of Jesus, but the Savior himself said:

15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’sclothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their bruits.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AND what is it that we are supposed to do.. verse 21?

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath Loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

The Savior particularly mentioned His so called followers, servants of Christ-- called Christians or Saints, who at one time professed to follow Jesus, but then become evil servants. This is the parable of the Faithful and wise servant vs the Evil Servant. Notice that they both start out as faithful and wise...but, then there is a period of time where things don't happen quickly. It appears (at least to the evil servant) that the "Lord Delayeth his coming". The faithful and wise servant is still found doing what he is supposed to be doing even after this long time testing period. The evil servant does it for a little while, but then gives up and joins the world, and in fact joins in with the world and persecutes his one time fellow Christians...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

@Calm I'm listening to the latest MS's podcast with Lori's cousin Megan, and she's bringing something up that she hasn't before, and felt bad for not bringing it up to Lauren, who is that? Is that the attorney? Anyway, she talks about Stacy's death at mark 2:25ish in and what happened. She says that Stacy is living with her parents in San Antonia and at the time her parents and family were all away on a trip to Hawaii. Alex was also living in San Antonio but in his own apartment, but had lived for a while with his parents. So on to the story, Alex called Megan (Lori's cousin) out of the blue and asked if she wanted to hang out. So he brings her takeout and they sit down to watch a movie and then he stops the movie a third of the way and he tells her that he's really worried about Stacy because earlier she had talked to him and told him she was going to just give herself a big shot and go to bed, insulin. And he said he's been really worried about her for awhile now and then asked Megan if she'd go with him to check on her. So they go to the Cox's and they open the door and everything was dark, and Alex immediately goes up to his parent's room, not Stacy's and Megan wondered why would she be in her parent's room. And they go up there and Stacy was asleep, and she wouldn't wake up even after shaking her. So Alex called 911 and they worked on her and then immediately took her to the hospital. They said at the hospital that she was in a diabetic coma and probably would not wake up. Megan called her parents, and hoped they'd call Stacie's parents. And Megan's parents arranged hospice care for Stacy. Megan's parents did call Stacy's parents, but ends up they didn't even come home. And then Alex didn't come around for a few days didn't stick around. And in light of everything that had happened, Megan says that Stacy's parents were burdened with Stacy because she's so sickly. So Megan is suspicious that it was planned for the Cox's to not be home (Lori was with them as well) and for Alex to end Stacy's life, and then Megan says that right after Alex goes shopping on Stacy's credit cards. Also, the Cox's didn't come home for days and days when this happened. 

Megan also mentions that Barry, Stacy's dad, may have sexually abused Stacy. And Megan thinks it is a pattern with the Cox's...deaths and getting money from the insurance. She mentions that it could be possible that Alex killed Joe Ryan and Lori had told her bishop that she's had thoughts of killing Joe. 

Have you heard this story Calm? I tried to relay it to the best of my abilities, not sure I did. 

[Calm]

Lauren is HTC, Hidden True Crimes. 
 

Her first interview was with her. 
 

I have been impressed with the level of education Lauren has done on the Church and she treats people with respect so far that I can see, I have watched just a couple of her shows. She works hard not to be offensive or go down gossipy, petty trails, but doesn’t avoid uncomfortable stuff either. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

That is very close to how Megan told the story on HTC. I had heard about Megan’s parents being the ones caring for Stacey because Alex had come over to hang out and then asked her to go with him. But she hadn’t said anything about her being in the parents’ room. I figured Alex knew something was wrong and didn’t want to have to deal with it, but that he knew where she was….

I am guessing it still may be he just didn’t want the hassle, that he had gone over and found her and then decided to go to Megan so she would have to take care of it or her parents. 

Megan had expressed the belief the Coxes had decided it was time for Stacey to ‘move on’, but not that they intentionally dumped it on her parents.  And that Alex went along with it as even if he didn’t kill her, he didn’t call for help and probably delayed her getting help for several hours.

I would not be the least surprised if that is what happened. 
 

Barry sounds like a piece of work and Janice dislikes unpleasantness imo. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Lori mentioned on a podcast iirc that she demanded the bishop give her a recommend because the temple was the only way she was going to be able to cope. If he didn’t she was going to kill Ryan.   She was both laughing when she said it iirc, but also using it as an example of her pain and suffering, so it wasn’t a joke in that sense. She meant to convey she was that far gone and then God saved her and angels started typing for her on the computer since she was such a bad typist and angels would give her messages about people she would meet and all sorts of I am so special because I overcame my pain…as if her life was so much worse than anyone else’s, but she still came out of it shining. 

[Calm]

Roger K Young was the one who originated the “callout”.  It got picked up quite a bit, but Julie Rose ramped it up big time because she started giving approximate times (within so many years) and then started announcing earthquakes that would begin the process. People were selling their homes to buy the white canvas tents and accessories. Suzanne Freeman, the NDEr who was first published by Daybell (she had a ghostwriter so it sounds like her book may be tolerable) says she is pretty sure Rowe got kickbacks from the prepper product producers. Freeman shared some private stuff with Daybell while working on her books that she didn’t published and it wound up in Rowe’s stories.  She wasn’t the only one Rowe and Daybell plagiarized. 
 

She said she worked with Daybell for 15 years or so on her books and getting them published, etc and he never once mentioned in all that time he had a NDE. That is just not reasonable when she says they were close friends and that was the center point of their relationship. She got to know Tammy and other family members. She loved Tammy. CD had told her several times Tammy was his soul mate, that he knew her in the preexistence. 
 

Did he actually mean that back then or was he just trying to be special like the people he was trying to gather around him?  Impossible to know.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Calm