Daybell-Vallow trial

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

hate that she can make appeals to her conviction every three years, if I read that right. 

Only twice for sure as I read it and the three years is just how long it will likely take, it’s not that she is allowed to do it after a certain amount of time passed.  The first time is probably seen as doublechecking the judge’s legal decisions on motions (not the verdict if I understand correctly) and the second in case the lawyer was crap.

It is likely a waste of taxpayers’ money in this case, but I prefer that vastly over a judge not being overseen for their decisions (too many calls being overturned is likely to get them booted) or an innocent person not being able to appeal at all because they couldn’t afford a decent or committed lawyer (see bold).

She can appeal whenever she wants, whether or not the appellate courts choose to hear the case is another thing besides these two times as I understand it (maybe Ken can confirm).

Quote

Daybell can file an appeal within 42 days of being sentenced. She will be assigned appellate lawyers and it typically takes around three years for the case to move through the appellate courts. If she loses that appeal, she can file a second for ineffective counsel. That process could also take around three years.

Appeals are meant to ensure the defendant got a fair trial, it’s not another trial.  I don’t have any issue with that ideal.  It is a better use of taxpayers’ money than a lot of government work.

Quote

An appeal is not a retrial or a new trial of the case. The appeals courts do not usually consider new witnesses or new evidence. Appeals in either civil or criminal cases are usually based on arguments that there were errors in the trial s procedure or errors in the judge's interpretation of the law….

The appellate court determines whether errors occurred in applying the law at the lower court level. It generally will reverse a trial court only for an error of law. Not every error of law, however, is cause for a reversal. Some are harmless errors that did not prejudice the rights of the parties to a fair trial. For example, in a criminal case a higher court may conclude that the trial judge gave a legally improper instruction to the jury, but if the mistake were minor and in the opinion of the appellate court had no bearing on the jury's finding, the appellate court may hold it a harmless error and let a guilty verdict stand. However, an error of law, such as admitting improper evidence, may be determined to be harmful and therefore reversible error.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/appeals/

Edited July 31, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

I haven’t studied the issue much and news may be misrepresenting the reality, but I actually think it should be easier to get a retrial for several reasons.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/column-us-supreme-court-shows-indifference-wrongful-convictions-2023-06-28/

Quote

The U.S. Supreme Court held last week that a federal prisoner cannot challenge a sentence even if subsequent rulings show that courts misinterpreted the law and convicted the person for conduct that wasn’t actually a crime.

The June 22 ruling is the latest in a series of recent decisions by the court’s conservative majority that have systematically closed off legal avenues to challenge convictions, even for innocent people facing death sentences.

Last year, for example, the court held that a man convicted of murder in Arizona was barred from presenting new medical evidence of his innocence on appeal, effectively clearing the way for his execution. That man, Barry Jones, was released from death row two weeks ago, after Arizona’s attorney general agreed with several lower court judges and the Supreme Court’s liberals that his conviction could not stand.

 

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Only twice for sure as I read it and the three years is just how long it will likely take, it’s not that she is allowed to do it after a certain amount of time passed.  The first time is probably seen as doublechecking the judge’s legal decisions on motions (not the verdict if I understand correctly) and the second in case the lawyer was crap.

It is likely a waste of taxpayers’ money in this case, but I prefer that vastly over a judge not being overseen for their decisions (too many calls being overturned is likely to get them booted) or an innocent person not being able to appeal at all because they couldn’t afford a decent or committed lawyer (see bold).

She can appeal whenever she wants, whether or not the appellate courts choose to hear the case is another thing besides these two times as I understand it (maybe Ken can confirm).

Appeals are meant to ensure the defendant got a fair trial, it’s not another trial.  I don’t have any issue with that ideal.  It is a better use of taxpayers’ money than a lot of government work.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/appeals/

Thank you, I do remember thinking at the time of reading that it's a good thing for an innocent person. Lacking in sleep, camped over the weekend, I guess it's frustrating to me if she does this. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thank you, I do remember thinking at the time of reading that it's a good thing for an innocent person. Lacking in sleep, camped over the weekend, I guess it's frustrating to me if she does this. 

I know what you mean.  For the sake of the families that she has harmed so much, it probably would be much more healing if they could tell themselves they would no longer be confronted with her, she was behind bars and there she will stay (I will be shocked if she doesn’t get a life sentence, but if she doesn’t for these three murders, the murder of her husband, Charles, should ensure she’s in jail till her death….assuming she is found guilty for that, which I can’t imagine she wouldn’t be given what I know of the evidence and there is likely more given what turned up in this trial in the texts).

[Tacenda]

Judging from Lori's sitting low in her seat and her just looking very lax, she doesn't seem very remorseful. If it were me and I knew I did the things she did, I would sit up and take whatever was given me and show that I respected the process. 

 

[Raingirl]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:54 AM, Calm said:

Reminder for those interested, LVD’s sentencing hearing is on Monday and this is allowed to be televised.  It’s predicted to take only one day .
 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/07/how-you-can-watch-lori-vallow-daybells-sentencing-and-what-we-can-expect-to-happen-at-the-hearing/

“The prosecution and defense teams will provide sentence recommendations. Kay Woodcock, JJ Vallow’s grandmother, is expected to give a victim impact statement, along with Samantha Gwilliam, Tammy Daybell’s sister, and Vicki Hoban, Tammy Daybell’s aunt. Other victims may also speak or submit letters to the judge.

Lori Daybell will be given the chance to make a statement if she wishes.”

Sounds like there is no break before the judge issues the sentence. I would have thought if they had victims speak in order to take their experience into account, there would be some serious consideration on it.

Victim statements are important, but they do not change the law nor the facts of the case.  Jude Jennifer Dorow did a masterful job of handing down the stiffest sentences possible in the Waukesha parade killer’s trial. The victim impact statements in that trial were the most powerful I’ve ever seen. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Raingirl
Forgot a sentence.

[katherine the great]

What a bizarre rant she gave before being sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole. Glad to know she and Tammy are such good friends. 😳

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

What a bizarre rant she gave before being sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole. Glad to know she and Tammy are such good friends. 😳

She said she couldn't wait to go to heaven, not in those words, and I wish she would get a ticket there but to hell.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If it were me and I knew I did the things she did, I would sit up and take whatever was given me and show that I respected the process. 

If it was you, you wouldn’t do the things she did. Her being lax is for the same reason she could do the things she did. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

She said she couldn't wait to go to heaven, not in those words, and I wish she would get a ticket there but to hell.

Strange she fought the death penalty then or even bothered to do anything.  Somehow I doubt she is that okay with dying. Though now she is facing a life sentence, maybe death looks more appealing.   
 

I figure her lawyers will do the first appeal, but it will be her that pushes the second appeal if it happens. If it happens, I speculate she isn’t as chill about the prospect as she wants to appear.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Thanks for the link, Tacenda.  As usual I slept too late to view when live.

For those planning on viewing, it starts at about 42 minutes, so just drag it to that point unless you really enjoy staring at the same thing for 40 minutes.  And it looks like it ends at 15 mins before video ends, so total about 90 minutes.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

She refused to participate in the pre sentencing investigation (no mental health interviews by the state or discussion of the crime with the investigator I am guessing).  Doesn’t want to share her glory with nonbelievers I guess.

Looking forward to her rant.  Would love to know how different she is from when she managed to persuade her followers to try and curse her victims to death.

Added:  I see the judge gets victim statements prior to the sentencing. That makes sense.  
 

I assume this is the opportunity for the victims to share with the public their experiences as well as a chance to confront the defendant.

600+ pages on her mental health from the defense…got to wonder what was in that if the 27 pages of material that got included in the report contained two doctors’ reports, especially when the investigator didn’t see the vast majority of the material as having value for the sentencing.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, katherine the great said:

What a bizarre rant she gave before being sentenced to life in prison, with no possibility of parole. Glad to know she and Tammy are such good friends. 😳

I could only stand to watch a few minutes. It was absolutely sickening when she said her deceased children came to her and told her she did nothing wrong.  Her focus was totally on herself.   Despicable doesn’t even begin to describe her. 

[Calm]

The victim statements are really drawing a beautiful picture of Tammy.  You can tell they loved her so much.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

It was absolutely sickening when she said her deceased children came to her and told her she did nothing wrong.  Her focus was totally on herself.

What a waste of a visitation for her, they should have gone to and told the jury instead if they cared so much.  🤮

[Calm]

Did others have issues with voices going in and out?  I am wondering if they are getting overloaded.

[bluebell]

Lori seems pretty obviously insane.  She did and said exactly what I assumed she would considering how she's been this whole time.  The person I'm curious about is Chad.  He seems sane and if he is then diabolical.  His hearing will be interesting, especially because I don't think he's going to keep up the "I'm special and sent by God" routine.  I think he'll be worried about getting the death penalty and that he'll turn on Lori.

Guess time will tell.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

that he'll turn on Lori.

Looks that way from what his lawyer has said so far, but how he can remove himself?   Lack of knowledge ain’t going to make it for Tammy’s death and he knew the kids were buried on his land by evidence of his behaviour the day they found them.  Alex was long dead, so he can’t claim fear of him.  Fear of her?  His behaviour since she was arrested makes this unlikely.  The texts with his threats of angels not protecting her if she is angry with him while she just threatens leaving him makes it more likely he was the one to fear, imo.

I don’t see him having much hope now she has been found guilty of conspiracy. Plus he was there when Tammy died.  The argument has to be the State got it wrong for her…but the kids?  Chopped up body parts and melted bucket dumped on head and throughly wrapped up before disposal can’t be accidental or natural by any stretch of the imagination.  Has to claim lack of knowledge….but there’s that phone call and the dash to freedom (sorry, his lawyer’s  ) when all he had was an awareness of where they were digging, not what they found.

I anticipate Prior being much more proactive than her lawyers in criticizing findings. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm

[JustAnAustralian]

It's made the Australian news this morning (via the US Sun)

[Calm]

Trying again hoping the sound issues are better (will wait till the middle of the night to finish if not)….

I get that her lawyers are just doing their jobs, but my gosh just let the victims speak their minds, it isn’t going to make any real difference in the long run and they have got to know that.

Given what her lawyers let through without objection in the trial, that they are now protesting when these few Tammy, Tylee and JJ’s family members get likely their one chance to confront the person at the core of all their pain  is pissing me off.

[Tacenda]

 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Did others have issues with voices going in and out?  I am wondering if they are getting overloaded.

Yes, I wonder if there's a better recording elsewhere. 

All those that spoke today did a really good job, like Tammy's sisters putting it to her good and so eloquent. And Kay's too, I choked up big time. Lori has got to be on the top ten list, along with Chad, as the most horrendous murderers. I can imagine how the trial with Chad is going to be. 

Also, I love how the judge did his job. At first making it appear he's going light on her, and then socking it to her.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Tacenda

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

 

Yes, I wonder if there's a better recording elsewhere. 

All those that spoke today did a really good job, like Tammy's sisters putting it to her good and so eloquent. And Kay's too, I choked up big time. Lori has got to be on the top ten list, along with Chad, as the most horrendous murderers. I can imagine how the trial with Chad is going to be. 

Also, I love how the judge did his job. At first making it appear he's going light on her, and then socking it to her.

I found if I stopped and restarted it seemed to fix it, but not sure as I may have skipped over the bad parts instead since I didn’t look at the time stamp.  Will check next time.

I think the prosecutor did his best work today, eloquent and to the point and his own voice showed how much the victims now matter to him personally. 

I love that he made sure to note she was not a Rexburgian.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Lori has got to be on the top ten list, along with Chad, as the most horrendous murderers.

What is sad is I doubt she hits the top 100.  (Not arguing with you because I get the meaning behind your words, I am just rambling today….what she did and does is a horror).  Too many parents have tortured their children for most of their lives before killing them.  Victims have been beaten by their partners for years before the fatal blow.  Family members have been killed for greed according to the oldest myths and the news is still full of these accounts…see Karl Karlsen and Kouri Richards (first hits google came up with).  This wife not only shot her husband in public, she cold bloodedly it seems added two shots to the torso and one to the head like an execution after he was down to make sure.  https://patch.com/pennsylvania/levittown/new-details-emerge-fatal-shooting-bristol-wharf

What makes the Daybell murders a notable case is the wanna be prophet and self proclaimed translated goddess and let’s not forget the hitman brother and their detailed, psycho religious role play used to justify their murdering for greed and the sexual lust that drove it all.

I think LVD enjoyed killing Charles (I believe she had a ring side seat for Alex’s attempted murder of Joe Ryan, but not sure) and had the party afterwards to celebrate, but my guess is Tammy, Tylee, and JJ were just seen as necessary evils to be removed so she and her lover could live the dream.  There are serial killers who do it for the love of seeing someone suffer, the ones that prolong the victims’ agony for their enjoyment and I see those as the most horrendous version.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

“Love is key” is LVD’s motto?

Seriously, I am laughing. Where is he going with this?

It’s all a misunderstanding…but no explanation or hint at what that is. 

Well, we can’t do anything about the dead, so let’s try and make LVD into a better person. Let that be the dead’s legacy. 

Nope, not buying it. I think peace will come by the victims bof big able to move on with their lives rather than them wondering what will happen in 20 years. 
 

Cast the first stone?  Wow…

At last an explanation from her. So why didn’t her lawyers attempt to argue these?

No murders…..Accidental death, suicide, and fatal reaction to medication.  Where are the medical records then showing that Tylee was in such excruciating pain that she took her own life (I am assuming that is the person she is identifying as suicidal given her emphasis on how even morphine wasn’t enough).

So why the bodies buried in the backyard and she refused to say anything about it.

And she slips into her “I am special” mode with a textbook standard NDE.  I wonder if this is pulled out for a special occasion or all her conversations go this way. 

I think the judge is working hard not to roll his eyes.  I don’t think she is doing herself any favors with him. 

I wonder how much she has been able to convince herself this is the truth. 
 

Calling JJ a drug baby doesn’t sound like all that loving every day of his life to me. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Well, I now predict Prior will argue she told CD it was suicide and accidental death for the kids and Tammy died naturally and any strange bruising was caused by unusual position of the body and attempts to move her and perform cpr….of course Alex burned and buried the kids without his knowledge in the backyard.

They can see what happens when no real defense is given besides the state has to prove its case. Prior has to provide an alternative scenario. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Calm