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Church Faces Possible Tax Issue in Australia (Simon Southerton is involved...).

smac97

By smac97
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smac97 Grand Master

smac97

Posted
Posted (edited)

First, some vocabulistics for those of us not particularly familiar with the way things run Down Under:

Australian Labor Party, "also simply known as Labor, is the major centre-left political party in Australia, one of two major parties in Australian politics,[3] along with the centre-right Liberal Party of Australia."

Australian Greens, "commonly known as The Greens, are a confederation of Green state and territory political parties in Australia."

A "rort" is an Australian term for "a fraudulent or dishonest act or practice."

I am open to correction on any of the above.

Story 1: Mormons Inc: Church accused of multinational tax rort

Quote

The Mormon Church has been accused of engaging in significant tax evasion in Australia, allowing its adherents to collect hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions that are not lawfully available to followers of other religions.

Some of its tax activities are run through a shell company, with no paid employees, that could be in breach of Australian tax laws, an investigation by The Sunday Age and The Sun-Herald has found.

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Senior ex-Mormon, Dr Simon Southerton, has made a complaint to an Australian regulator about the church’s tax practices.CREDIT:

The investigation has uncovered how the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (commonly called Mormons) appears to have structured itself internationally to minimise tax for its adherents and maximise benefits for itself, in particular in Australia and Canada.

An "investigation" about how "the Utah-based" Church has used tax law to "maximise benefits for itself."

That sounds provocative, but I'm not sure there is much meat on this bone.  First, there is a big difference between, say, tax evasion and tax avoidance.  Tax evasion is "{t}he failure to pay or a deliberate underpayment of taxes," and is illegal, whereas tax avoidance is "{a}n action taken to lessen tax liability and maximize after-tax income," and is altogether legal.  

The Church "hav{ing} structured itself internationally to minimise tax for its adherents and maximise benefits for itself, in particular in Australia and Canada" sounds pretty tax avoidance-ish.

Moreover, the "maximise benefits for itself" does not really pan out, as seen later in the article.  Back to it:

Quote

In Australia, the church has ensured that donations and tithing – which are not tax-deductible – are routed through a charitable trust to gain 100 per cent tax deductibility. Mormons are required to pay 10 per cent of their gross income in tithing, a significant financial impost on followers.

Australia is unusual among English-speaking countries in that it does not allow tax deductions for tithing or church donations. But it does allow generous deductibility for charitable giving.

That's a pretty significant point.  Tithes and church donations are, in the U.S., tax deductible, but not in Australia.

Quote

The Mormon Church has structured itself to maximise that tax benefit, and reports that it spends up to 70 per cent of its Australian income on charity. Globally, the church spends less than 1 per cent of its income on charity.

So, does the Church spent "up to 70 per cent of its Australian income on charity"?  Read on.

Quote

“It’s all a ... smoke-and-mirrors thing,” claims barrister Dr Neville Rochow, QC, who had senior roles in the church, including working as its representative to the European Union until 2018, and previously in pastoral and public affairs roles. He claims the church is “taking it off the back of taxpaying Australians”.

I had not previously heard of Neville Rochow.  He appears to have been supportive of the Church as recently as 2018 (see here and here).  More recently, in 2021 and this year, he has been interviewed by John Dehlin and Gina Colvin (here, here  and here).

Quote

Dr Rochow said the church spent little on charity. “They don’t set up schools, don’t set up hospitals, don’t have homeless shelters, don’t have places for women to escape when they have bad marriages.”

"They."

But what is this money being spent on, then?  The implication here is that the money is being squandered or otherwise not spent on charitable, or sufficiently charitable, endeavors.

Read on.

Quote

The tax structure has meant that since 2015, Australian adherents have been able to draw on $400 million in tax deductions not available to followers of other religions or denominations.

So Australian members have been able to utilize a tax deduction.  How this is "not available to followers of other religions or denominations" is unclear.  If the "tax structure" is legal, then other religions/denominations could set themselves up in the same way, such that their followers could use that deduction.

Quote

A Mormon Church spokesman did not respond to written questions about this discrepancy, but said the church operated in accordance with tax laws.

0869229125896efed651c188f944927ce877f651
Dr Neville Rochow, QC, says the church has structured itself to minimise tax.

This is likely correct.  If there were illegalities involved, I'm reasonably confident that Drs. Southerton and Rochow, both now apparently arrayed against the Church, would be loudly proclaiming as much.  Instead, we have Dr. Rochow declarying that the Church "has structured itself to minimise tax."

Um, yeah.  So?  Is that illegal?  Is it unethical?  If so, how?  If not, then what's point of all this fuss?  Seems like there's not a lot of muck to rake here.

Quote

In the mid-2010s, Dr Rochow was involved in a Mormon-instigated econometric study used to justify its tax status and to ensure that religious trust properties of other churches were not taxed. Soon after, it started to direct substantial donations and tithing through its charitable trust – a decision he was not involved in.

Before that, in a submission it made to Treasury, the church said it spent just $36,000 a year, on average, on charitable donations between 1985 and 2010. There has been little to no growth in the 61,600 Mormon adherents in Australia over the past decade that could explain the reported 2000-fold increase in charitable giving.

Sounds like a change in accounting practices, which is explained the next paragraph:

Quote

Each year, funds are transferred from the church’s charitable trust to a separate entity, Sydney-based LDS Charities Australia. From that entity, about $70 million a year is distributed to global charitable causes. The church spokesman said after LDS Charities Australia was created in 2012, “there was a desire and the ability to significantly increase the support of global humanitarian and development projects”.

So it sounds like this $70M is being "distributed to global charitable causes," and that this change arose around 2012-2015 because the Church and its members had "a desire and the ability to significantly increase the support of global humanitarian and development projects."

Again, how is this a problem?  Is this construct  illegal?  Unethical?  If so, how?  If not, then what's point of all this fuss?

Quote

That $70 million a year is close to the amount the global church – whose strongest following is in the United States – itself says it gives each year on average throughout the world, according to its own annual reports.

Graphic.jpg

LDS Charities Australia has no paid staff, Australian website, expenses or infrastructure to run what purports to be one of the country’s major charities, collecting more in individual donations than Oxfam, Beyond Blue or Caritas Australia, the Catholic Church’s international aid charity.

It runs in parallel with the Utah-based Latter-Day Saints Charities, which apparently directs the church’s charitable spending throughout the world and includes all its senior staff, management and infrastructure.

So of the $100M or so in charitable contributions from Australian members, $70M goes to "LDS Charities," which has essentially no overhead ("No paid staff"), and which donations "flow to dozens of countries" such as Burkina Faso, Bangladesh, Haiti, Iraq, Liberia, and Venezuela.

This flow of charitable funds is, per Dr. Rochow, a "smoke-and-mirrors thing" that somehow exploit "taxpaying Australians."  If the funds were being funnelled toward profligate lifestyles of higher-ups in the Church in Australia or the US, I could better understand this characterization.  But that's not the case.  At all.  So what's the fuss?

Quote

A church spokesman denied LDS Charities Australia was run by Utah-based Latter Day Saints Charities and said it funded programs through other charities including the Red Cross, Water for the People and the World Food Programme, allowing it to keep costs low. “All decisions about which projects are funded are made right here in Australia,” the spokesman said. The programs it cited were also funded by its Utah-based charity.

University of Tampa professor of sociology Ryan Cragun, an expert on Mormonism, said it was inconceivable that the church was making significant global charitable decisions from Australia. “It’s a stunningly hierarchical religion,” Professor Cragun said. “So, any big decisions like that are going to be made in Salt Lake City.”

I'd like to see the evidence for Prof. Cragun's hostile and unsupported claim.  As his specialty is sociology, I'm not sure he is situated to speak competently on this topic.  In other words, he's just speculating, and his speculation is being bolstered by his (not particularly relevant) academic credentials/position.

Also, Prof. Cragun is, like Drs. Southerton and Rochow, a former member and is presently pretty antagonistic against the Church.  The article does not seem interested in objective, impartial analysis.

Quote

A geneticist, he made a break with the church in the 2000s, after he found that its origin story, of some Native Americans being descended from Jews, was incorrect. “The big problem was I was a bishop (akin to a pastor),” Dr Southerton said. “I went in overnight absolutely knowing that the Book of Mormon was a 19th century fabrication.”

He wrote a book about the issue and was later excommunicated. He said it was implausible that $70 million a year was being donated through Australia.

Yeesh.  This makes Dr. Southerton sound like a disgruntled, ax-grinding kind of person.  He too has no particular expertise or information such as to make his speculative (and hostile) comments here informed or reasoned.

The next part finally divulges what might be the nub of the issue:

Quote

In 2019, the Australian Tax Office made a binding ruling that for an Australian charity to have deductible gift recipient (DGR) status – which allows tax write-offs for donors – it must have Australia as “the focal point of the DGR in a legal or organisational sense”.

Krystian Seibert, a charities expert at Swinburne University’s Centre for Social Impact, speaking in general terms, said the DGR rule meant the operations and management decisions of a charity needed to be made from Australia.

“It can, of course, engage and consult with partner organisations outside Australia, but if it effectively outsources operational and management decision-making to individuals or organisations that are outside Australia, that could raise issues under our tax laws.”

If I am reading this correctly, the only issue is a speculative one.  And that speculation is that the decision-making processes of how the tithes/donations from Australian members is being made or controlled in Utah, and not in Australia.  This, if established, "sould raise issues under our tax laws."

This seems awfully speculative and mountains-out-of-molehills-ish.

Story 2: Labor, Greens push for tax office investigation into Mormon donations

Quote

Federal Labor and the Greens have called for a Tax Office investigation into allegations the Mormon church has been involved in a significant tax rort in Australia.

An investigation by The Age and Sydney Morning Herald revealed that adherents of the Utah-headquartered Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (commonly called Mormons) were able to collect hundreds of millions of dollars in generous tax exemptions that are not lawfully available to followers of other religions.

The above link is to "Story 1" above.

Quote

Shadow assistant treasurer Labor’s Andrew Leigh said the allegations were serious and called for an immediate investigation.

acc45f78bdb3f1099263166d8a654d593d59c63b
Labor’s Andrew Leigh said the ATO “should commence an immediate investigation into these allegations”

“The Australian Taxation Office should commence an immediate investigation into these allegations, to ensure that tax deductions are only provided where there is a true public benefit,” he said.

“Labor takes any suggestion of tax dodging extremely seriously. We’ve led the debate on multinational tax avoidance, and any suggestion that other multinational entities are seeking to avoid taxes is deeply worrying.”

An Australian Tax Office spokesperson said it could not comment on the tax affairs of any individual or entity due to confidentiality restrictions.

“The ATO uses intelligence from many sources including media reports, information from the public and referrals from other government agencies,” the spokesperson said. “Where, as a result of an assessment, the ATO forms a view that it is necessary to take appropriate action, we will do so.”

 

Greens treasury spokesman Nick McKim said there was enough information for the Tax Office and Charities Commission to investigate.

“Everyone – people, corporations and religious institutions – should pay their fair share of tax. The generous tax exemptions given to religious organisations should be respected and not exploited,” he said.

Assistant Treasurer Michael Sukkar did not respond to requests for comment.

Anyway, this story seems to be getting a fair amount of press (same article, multiple outlets, I think) :

Hard to say how much actual readership there is, though.

Anyway, thoughts?  Am I way off?  Is there a scandal brewing here?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
4
Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted (edited)

The article seems pretty slanted. Can anyone here who lives in Australia and is acquainted with The Sunday Age and The Sun-Herald enlighten us as to their underlying editorial biases? I find that can make considerable difference in how information is served up. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted

This is somewhat peripheral to the topic, but I wonder how much of a practical difference tithing being tax deductible makes these days for a typical Latter-day Saint in the United States. With recent tax laws, I’ve found in the past few years that it is a waste of time for me to itemize deductions when filing my income tax return even though I pay a full tithe, this because my itemized deductions no longer come anywhere close to meeting or exceeding the standard deduction. Maybe it would be different if I were still paying a lot of mortgage interest, but that hasn’t been the case for a long time. 

1
OGHoosier Mentor

OGHoosier

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, smac97 said:

First, some vocabulistics for those of us not particularly familiar with the way things run Down Under:

Australian Labor Party, "also simply known as Labor, is the major centre-left political party in Australia, one of two major parties in Australian politics,[3] along with the centre-right Liberal Party of Australia."

Australian Greens, "commonly known as The Greens, are a confederation of Green state and territory political parties in Australia."

A "rort" is an Australian term for "a fraudulent or dishonest act or practice."

I am open to correction on any of the above.

Story 1: Mormons Inc: Church accused of multinational tax rort

An "investigation" about how "the Utah-based" Church has used tax law to "maximise benefits for itself."

That sounds provocative, but I'm not sure there is much meat on this bone.  First, there is a big difference between, say, tax evasion and tax avoidance.  Tax evasion is "{t}he failure to pay or a deliberate underpayment of taxes," and is illegal, whereas tax avoidance is "{a}n action taken to lessen tax liability and maximize after-tax income," and is altogether legal.  

The Church "hav{ing} structured itself internationally to minimise tax for its adherents and maximise benefits for itself, in particular in Australia and Canada" sounds pretty tax avoidance-ish.

Moreover, the "maximise benefits for itself" does not really pan out, as seen later in the article.  Back to it:

That's a pretty significant point.  Tithes and church donations are, in the U.S., tax deductible, but not in Australia.

So, does the Church spent "up to 70 per cent of its Australian income on charity"?  Read on.

I had not previously heard of Neville Rochow.  He appears to have been supportive of the Church as recently as 2018 (see here and here).  More recently, in 2021 and this year, he has been interviewed by John Dehlin and Gina Colvin (here, here  and here).

"They."

But what is this money being spent on, then?  The implication here is that the money is being squandered or otherwise not spent on charitable, or sufficiently charitable, endeavors.

Read on.

So Australian members have been able to utilize a tax deduction.  How this is "not available to followers of other religions or denominations" is unclear.  If the "tax structure" is legal, then other religions/denominations could set themselves up in the same way, such that their followers could use that deduction.

This is likely correct.  If there were illegalities involved, I'm reasonably confident that Drs. Southerton and Rochow, both now apparently arrayed against the Church, would be loudly proclaiming as much.  Instead, we have Dr. Rochow declarying that the Church "has structured itself to minimise tax."

Um, yeah.  So?  Is that illegal?  Is it unethical?  If so, how?  If not, then what's point of all this fuss?  Seems like there's not a lot of muck to rake here.

Sounds like a change in accounting practices, which is explained the next paragraph:

So it sounds like this $70M is being "distributed to global charitable causes," and that this change arose around 2012-2015 because the Church and its members had "a desire and the ability to significantly increase the support of global humanitarian and development projects."

Again, how is this a problem?  Is this construct  illegal?  Unethical?  If so, how?  If not, then what's point of all this fuss?

So of the $100M or so in charitable contributions from Australian members, $70M goes to "LDS Charities," which has essentially no overhead ("No paid staff"), and which donations "flow to dozens of countries" such as Burkina Faso, Bangladesh, Haiti, Iraq, Liberia, and Venezuela.

This flow of charitable funds is, per Dr. Rochow, a "smoke-and-mirrors thing" that somehow exploit "taxpaying Australians."  If the funds were being funnelled toward profligate lifestyles of higher-ups in the Church in Australia or the US, I could better understand this characterization.  But that's not the case.  At all.  So what's the fuss?

I'd like to see the evidence for Prof. Cragun's hostile and unsupported claim.  As his specialty is sociology, I'm not sure he is situated to speak competently on this topic.  In other words, he's just speculating, and his speculation is being bolstered by his (not particularly relevant) academic credentials/position.

Also, Prof. Cragun is, like Drs. Southerton and Rochow, a former member and is presently pretty antagonistic against the Church.  The article does not seem interested in objective, impartial analysis.

Yeesh.  This makes Dr. Southerton sound like a disgruntled, ax-grinding kind of person.  He too has no particular expertise or information such as to make his speculative (and hostile) comments here informed or reasoned.

The next part finally divulges what might be the nub of the issue:

If I am reading this correctly, the only issue is a speculative one.  And that speculation is that the decision-making processes of how the tithes/donations from Australian members is being made or controlled in Utah, and not in Australia.  This, if established, "sould raise issues under our tax laws."

This seems awfully speculative and mountains-out-of-molehills-ish.

Story 2: Labor, Greens push for tax office investigation into Mormon donations

The above link is to "Story 1" above.

Anyway, this story seems to be getting a fair amount of press (same article, multiple outlets, I think) :

Hard to say how much actual readership there is, though.

Anyway, thoughts?  Am I way off?  Is there a scandal brewing here?

Thanks,

-Smac

I mean, there's sure a lot of one-sided muckracking going on. I pray that journalism is not reduced to the standards demonstrated by The Age, but I fear the worst. 

It will pass in a few news cycles if the government does not find illegal activity.  

cacheman Mentor

cacheman

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, smac97 said:

....So of the $100M or so in charitable contributions from Australian members, $70M goes to "LDS Charities," which has essentially no overhead ("No paid staff"), and which donations "flow to dozens of countries"....

Are you sure this is being reported correctly?  The financial statements from the church show much lower donation amounts (just under 30k for 2020 and 35k in 2019). 

https://acncpubfilesprodstorage.blob.core.windows.net/public/df8937d2-38af-e811-a95e-000d3ad24c60-4e1ca537-d2e3-4f5a-8309-7e073ef586cc-Financial Report-62a22a3d-54bf-eb11-bacc-000d3a6ac255-LDSA_2020_Audited_Financial_Statements.pdf

(I'm not an accountant,  so I might be reading this wrong.)

-cacheman

2
JustAnAustralian Mentor

JustAnAustralian

Posted
Posted (edited)

From a member's point of view, tithing has gone back and forth as to whether it was tax deductible.

For a while it was only 75% deductible, then returned to being 100% again.

Fast offering has always been 100% as long as I can remember.

 

Will have to read the article again to see exactly what they are trying to claim. The church has good accountants. If there are any problems it's a legislative problem. Though I'm sure the greens would be happy to get rid of all conservative churches completely so take anything they say with a pound of salt.

Edited by JustAnAustralian
2
JustAnAustralian Mentor

JustAnAustralian

Posted
Posted

A lot of comments in the article that make me wonder if any fact checking was done.

 

Quote

Given’s experience of the LDS Church - along with other senior ex-Mormons interviewed for this piece - was one where charitable giving was limited. “As far as helping people who were actually in need, there’s just not a lot of that happening. The Mormon Church isn’t providing soup kitchens, homeless shelters and the kind of aid which some other churches do,” she says.

 

Surely in her 50 years in the church she saw fast offering in action?

 

Quote

“To retain its tax status as a charity or religion it has to give money to charities, but it doesn’t like to do that,” he says.

Nope: https://www.acnc.gov.au/for-charities/start-charity/you-start-charity/charity-subtypes 

Quote

4. Advancing religion

A religion involves a belief in a supernatural being, thing or principle, and acceptance of canons of conduct which give effect to that belief. Advancing religion involves promotion of those beliefs, principles, observances and standards of conduct.

Some examples of charities that advance religion:

Religious congregations

Religious education bodies

Funds for establishing and maintaining religious buildings

Advancing religion (as the church does) is explicitly in itself, a charity type.

 

 

3
Robert F. Smith Grand Master

Robert F. Smith

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, smac97 said:

...................................

So of the $100M or so in charitable contributions from Australian members, $70M goes to "LDS Charities," which has essentially no overhead ("No paid staff"), and which donations "flow to dozens of countries" such as Burkina Faso, Bangladesh, Haiti, Iraq, Liberia, and Venezuela........................

Quote

“It’s a stunningly hierarchical religion,” Professor Cragun said. “So, any big decisions like that are going to be made in Salt Lake City.”

I'd like to see the evidence for Prof. Cragun's hostile and unsupported claim.  As his specialty is sociology, I'm not sure he is situated to speak competently on this topic.  In other words, he's just speculating, and his speculation is being bolstered by his (not particularly relevant) academic credentials/position.

Also, Prof. Cragun is, like Drs. Southerton and Rochow, a former member and is presently pretty antagonistic against the Church.  The article does not seem interested in objective, impartial analysis...............................

Prof Cragun ignores the flat and horizontal nature of the LDS structure.  He likewise ignores the long practice of LDS Charities to operate through other organizations, such as Catholic Relief, Red Cross, etc., simply because those international organizations have a ready-made and operating distribution structure available in so many places.  This cuts LDS overhead.  LDS Charities can simply send money to those NGOs electronically and get maximum benefit.  I know of instances on a vast scale in which that has worked extremely well.  The LDS Church gets involved in disasters worldwide and does more giving per capita than any other religious organization.

If Rochow, Southerton, and Cragun were at all honest, they would be praising such LDS practices.

2
Rain Grand Master

Rain

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

A lot of comments in the article that make me wonder if any fact checking was done.

 

 

Surely in her 50 years in the church she saw fast offering in action?

I actually have seen very little fast offerings in action and it has only been because the last 2 sisters I minister needed it and were open with me about it. Those in leadership may see it more.

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

 

Nope: https://www.acnc.gov.au/for-charities/start-charity/you-start-charity/charity-subtypes 

A lot of people don't see what the church gives to charities because the church often doesn't tell people.  I'm in a position with a charity that allows me to see some of what the church does for it and a number of other charities who are our partners, but I would bet that 99% of our volunteers don't know. 

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Advancing religion (as the church does) is explicitly in itself, a charity type.

 

 

 

2
Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted

If the situation in Oz is similar to that in the UK (and I'd bet real money that it's the case), then the Church sends more money to Oz than it receives from Oz. In other words, the international Church subsidizes its Australian branch. And all Aussie members' donations stay in-country.

That's my understanding, at least.

3
Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

it is a waste of time for me to itemize deductions when filing my income tax return even though I pay a full tithe, this because my itemized deductions no longer come anywhere close to meeting or exceeding the standard deduction

Yeah, me too.

Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

If Rochow, Southerton, and Cragun were at all honest, they would be praising such LDS practices.

As the Laconians once said: "If".

1
Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

Yeah, me too.

In a way, I’m kind of glad. It was so very tedious to detail and set a value on all those Deseret Industries donations. 

1
Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Rain said:

I actually have seen very little fast offerings in action and it has only been because the last 2 sisters I minister needed it and were open with me about it. Those in leadership may see it more.

FWIW, I haven't personally seen any FO in action at all, since nobody in my ministering list is doing badly -- and theoretically I'm not supposed to see the details, as a normal member.

HOWEVER, as the stake clerk I can see more than the usual member can. My stake's fast offering income in 2021 was about $60,000. Fast offering outgo was about $125,000. So we spend about twice what we receive from our members. I am not sure we're typical for our country, since we are in a relatively better off region, so I think our country as a whole is a serious recipient of largess from US members. And probably not just fast offering, either.

1
OGHoosier Mentor

OGHoosier

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Rain said:

A lot of people don't see what the church gives to charities because the church often doesn't tell people.  I'm in a position with a charity that allows me to see some of what the church does for it and a number of other charities who are our partners, but I would bet that 99% of our volunteers don't know. 

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 

But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 

That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. - Matthew 6:3 KJV

 

On the one hand, the Savior said it, so it's a good idea. On the other hand, it sure does give a politically disadvantageous impression sometimes.

Edited by OGHoosier
2
Kenngo1969 Grand Master

Kenngo1969

Posted
Posted
Quote

Given’s experience of the LDS Church - along with other senior ex-Mormons interviewed for this piece - was one where charitable giving was limited. “As far as helping people who were actually in need, there’s just not a lot of that happening. The Mormon Church isn’t providing soup kitchens, homeless shelters and the kind of aid which some other churches do,” she says.

 

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Prof Cragun ignores the flat and horizontal nature of the LDS structure.  He likewise ignores the long practice of LDS Charities to operate through other organizations, such as Catholic Relief, Red Cross, etc., simply because those international organizations have a ready-made and operating distribution structure available in so many places.  This cuts LDS overhead.  LDS Charities can simply send money to those NGOs electronically and get maximum benefit.  I know of instances on a vast scale in which that has worked extremely well.  The LDS Church gets involved in disasters worldwide and does more giving per capita than any other religious organization.

If Rochow, Southerton, and Cragun were at all honest, they would be praising such LDS practices.

I know!  :good:   What I would like the critics to answer is why, in blazes, should an organization build a school, a hospital, a soup kitchen, and so on and so on from the ground up if it simply duplicates the efforts already accomplished by other groups operating in the same area?  Why not simply contribute to existing entities?

Hamba Tuhan Grand Master

Hamba Tuhan

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

With recent tax laws, I’ve found in the past few years that it is a waste of time for me to itemize deductions when filing my income tax return even though I pay a full tithe, this because my itemized deductions no longer come anywhere close to meeting or exceeding the standard deduction. Maybe it would be different if I were still paying a lot of mortgage interest, but that hasn’t been the case for a long time. 

Australia has no standard deduction, nor is there a deduction for mortgage interest.

1
Kenngo1969 Grand Master

Kenngo1969

Posted
Posted

This whole hullaballoo made me take a walk down memory lane:

Those crazy Aussies! :rolleyes: 

Present company excepted, Just An Australian! ;):D :friends: 

Kenngo1969 Grand Master

Kenngo1969

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

FWIW, I haven't personally seen any FO in action at all, since nobody in my ministering list is doing badly -- and theoretically I'm not supposed to see the details, as a normal member.

HOWEVER, as the stake clerk I can see more than the usual member can. My stake's fast offering income in 2021 was about $60,000. Fast offering outgo was about $125,000. So we spend about twice what we receive from our members. I am not sure we're typical for our country, since we are in a relatively better off region, so I think our country as a whole is a serious recipient of largess from US members. And probably not just fast offering, either.

I know people have had their issues with Mike Quinn's work.  Certainly, if he believes there is a legitimate bone to be picked regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and with what the Church does, he will probably pick it.  That said, the conclusion of some of his latest work, as I understand it (I haven't read it myself; I've simply seen it discussed, primarily here: So many good books, so little time!), is that the Church of Jesus Christ in the U.S., essentially, is subsidizing the Church in the rest of the world.

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Calm Grand Master

Calm

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Trust me, there is a lot of crazy stuff going on here. 

Since they got the legal info wrong and it appears donations to a religious organization are tax deductible (100% currently correct?), perhaps they think something like Ensign Peak is receiving the funds there like it does in the US. Would that be legal in Australia?

And I can’t find a website for LDS Charities, but did find a government listing with it being established in 2012 and having 9 individuals associated with it. Is that the name currently used for it as far as you know? (Didn’t change it to Latter-day Saints Charities Australia perhaps?). Also found references to LDS Trust Fund or something (dead link).  Could you provide possible names to search info out with, please. 

Calm Grand Master

Calm

Posted
Posted (edited)

R/Mormon has this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/tv2anw/lds_charities_australia/

Quote

LDS Charities Australia 

For those wondering about the recent press coverage, LDS charities Australia might have Australian directors, but there is only one member. Originally that was the presiding bishop, but nowadays it’s the President of the Church. 

And by clause 7.2 “The powers of the Board are to be exercised in accordance with and subject to any directions which may be given by the Member” 

So President Nelson tells the directors how to allocate the money, and they must follow his counsel. That seems to be the concern of the Australian Government. Hard for an Australian board of directors to determine where the money goes if they are subject to direction from the Utah boss. 

I am wondering if this is accurate or not. 

 

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

So of the $100M or so in charitable contributions from Australian members, $70M goes to "LDS Charities," which has essentially no overhead ("No paid staff"), and which donations "flow to dozens of countries" such as Burkina Faso, Bangladesh, Haiti, Iraq, Liberia, and Venezuela.

From this Reddit post, I believe Southerton is claiming the US church gives aid…possibly through LDS Charities Australia by giving it a $70 million bequest if reading this correctly and LDS Charities Australia claims that as its own charitable donations to make it appear more charitable in order to keep members’ tithing donations tax deductible (he said they were/are? 75% and expected to drop to 0% in the future, post is 2 years old)

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/gn7maw/𝗧𝗵𝗲_𝗔𝘂𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗻_𝗟𝗗𝗦_𝗖𝗵𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗵_𝗶𝘀_𝘁𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴_𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗱𝗶𝘁_𝗳𝗼𝗿_𝟯𝟰/

Quote

Donations to the LDS Church in Australia were 100% tax deductible for many years, however, after closer government scrutiny of charities about 15 years ago, the deductibility rate was reduced to 75%. The church expected this to eventually fall to zero in the coming years. This is hardly surprising when you look at the amount of genuine charitable work (helping others outside your faith) the Australian LDS Church does with its income. It is a vanishingly small amount compared to most other charities in Australia. 

Each year the Australian LDS church receives about $35M in member donations, a figure comparable to total donations in New Zealand and the UK. About $4M is disbursed as fast offering to needy members. The remainder is spent roughly three ways. One third on buildings, one third on salaries and one third on other expenses (travel, accommodation, equipment and unit incidental costs etc.). Australian donations received for humanitarian aid are not declared separately, but they would be a small fraction of the $4M collected in fast offering. 

Around the time of the creation of LDS Charities Australia in 2014, church members were suddenly able to claim 100% of their tax back on their tithing. It seems pretty obvious that LDS Charities Australia was created in order to make the LDS Church in Australia appear to be extremely charitable. This is completely dishonest. 

The Australian church represents 1% of total membership, but it is claiming credit for 34% of the global humanitarian aid of the entire church. The LDS Church in Australia should only be reporting where Australian donations are being used. The Australian government thinks they are subsidising the cost of genuine charitable work of the Australian Mormon Church. Instead, they are subsidising the running costs of the Mormon Church in Australia. 

 

 

Edited by Calm
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