Story Re: Assignment from BYU Professor

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can someone explain what the bolded means?

Lopez defined “whiteness” as a location of structural advantage or “race privilege”; a “standpoint” or place from which whites look at themselves, at others, and at society; and a set of “cultural practices that are usually unmarked and unnamed.”

This is a very basic start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_inequality

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You’re seriously questioning that critical race theory, “The 1619 Project” and “White Fragility” are controversial? 

The 1619 project?

Controversial to you? Obviously it’s controversial to you. To Fox News viewers? Obviously. To whoever reads the outrage porn sites linked to in the OP? Obviously controversial.
 

But, can you verify that the views actually expressed in the assignment are controversial in the field of sociology though? 

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You’re seriously questioning that critical race theory, “The 1619 Project” and “White Fragility” are controversial? 

I am. There are people who hate them but there isn’t much controversy. Mostly because the detractors don’t know what critical race theory is, are too fragile to discuss white fragility, and the 1619 Project is treated with the same level of curiosity as Black History Month’s “Why no white history month” rebuttal. To be controversy there must be a shared reality to discuss the issue in.

[helix]

Professor Bybee is in the wrong here for a few reasons:

• Trying to use the Honor Code as an academic weapon to stop dissent 
• Trying to play the progressive card of discussing hard social justice topics while simultaneously trying to silence students who disagree
• Hyperventilating multiple times with the students and on Twitter
• Overgeneralizing opposition as "conservatives" (around the 30s and 40s of his looooong series of tweets).  Also lumping conservatives into a homogeneous boogeymen.

The harassment he receives is absolutely wrong.  However, one characteristic members of this church should demonstrate, and especially BYU faculty, is that Christlike behavior is not responding to drama with significantly escalated drama, broad judgmental statements, and threats.  Bybee is frankly an embarrassment for BYU's purpose and mission. 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by helix

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, helix said:

Professor Bybee is in the wrong here for a few reasons:

• Trying to use the Honor Code as an academic weapon to stop dissent 
• Trying to play the progressive card of discussing hard social justice topics while simultaneously trying to silence students who disagree
• Hyperventilating multiple times with the students and on Twitter
• Overgeneralizing opposition as "conservatives" (around the 30s and 40s of his looooong series of tweets).  Also lumping conservatives into a homogeneous boogeymen.

The harassment he receives is absolutely wrong.  However, one characteristic members of this church should demonstrate, and especially BYU faculty, is that Christlike behavior is not responding to drama with significantly escalated drama, broad judgmental statements, and threats.  Bybee is frankly an embarrassment for BYU's purpose and mission. 

 

The irony is that you are worked up about this issue because you are getting information from outlets that live off of escalating drama, broad judge mental statements, and threats.

Dance, puppet! Dance!

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The assignment appears to be unabashed indoctrination. It doesn’t merely expose students to a controversial view (a reasonable expectation at a university), but it endeavors to compel them to embrace said ideological and controversial view in order to fulfill a homework assignment, presumably with an optimum grade in the class at stake. Furthermore, it forced the students into the role of denigrating the university, whether or not they are inclined to do so. 
 

With such indoctrination going on in our colleges and universities (and alas, it now appears BYU is not beyond reach of it), small wonder that graduates are being churned out who carry forward such indoctrination in our public schools and other institutions. 
 

I think the instructor should be investigated by university admin with an eye toward possible sanctioning. 
 

I’ll reiterate what I said on another thread: Were I a student in the class, I’d be tempted to tell the instructor to pound sand. Instead, I’d probably suggest an alternative, less offensive, homework assignment or, if necessary, transfer out of the class. I wouldn’t go quietly if I did. 

Boy, you really don't like the concept of walking a mile in someone else's shoes do you.

 

 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, california boy said:

Boy, you really don't like the concept of walking a mile in someone else's shoes do you.

 

 

 

Irrelevant and non-sequitur. And a personal attack. 

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The irony is that you are worked up about this issue because you are getting information from outlets that live off of escalating drama, broad judge mental statements, and threats.

Dance, puppet! Dance!

Personal invective and attack. 

[Scott Lloyd]

43 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am. There are people who hate them but there isn’t much controversy. Mostly because the detractors don’t know what critical race theory is, are too fragile to discuss white fragility, and the 1619 Project is treated with the same level of curiosity as Black History Month’s “Why no white history month” rebuttal. To be controversy there must be a shared reality to discuss the issue in.

What a myopic view. Instead of acknowledging controversy and civil disagreement, simply brand the other as a [fill in the blank: hater, racist, bigot, etc.]. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[california boy]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Irrelevant and non-sequitur. And a personal attack. 

Scott, the assignment was designed to help students see things from a different point of view. THAT is your post.  I can't attack you for a view you presented yourself.  And no it is not "Irrelevant and non-sequitur."  Teaching someone to walk in another persons shoes is a useful exercise to see what it may feel like from another person's perspective is the point of the assignment.  Something you think the instructor should be sanctioned for daring to suggest.  

Geez.

[sunstoned]

I was quite surprised by the vicious attacks from the conservative groups.  Way over the top IMO.  After all, this was just a college assignment. Students are suppose to be exposed to ideas that may be outside their comfort zone.  That's part of a college education.

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, california boy said:

Scott, the assignment was designed to help students see things from a different point of view. THAT is your post.  I can't attack you for a view you presented yourself.  And no it is not "Irrelevant and non-sequitur."  Teaching someone to walk in another persons shoes is a useful exercise to see what it may feel like from another person's perspective is the point of the assignment.  Something you think the instructor should be sanctioned for daring to suggest.  

Geez.

Reminds me of this video:

 

[kimpearson]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You’re seriously questioning that critical race theory, “The 1619 Project” and “White Fragility” are controversial? 

It's only controversial to those on the far right and then only because someone made it a political issue to rally the far right troops.  The rest of the educated world looks at this and laughs because each of these is a theory with arguments for and against just like every other theory taught in universities the world over.  Every class I took at BYU had theories that were taught and examined.  The world is ran on theories.  Show me anyone besides those with a far right mentality that are upset and feel these theories should be banished from any discussion.  What is funny about your post is that it doesn't really appear that any of the theories you mentioned were part of the class.  So why did you bring them up?

[helix]

50 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The irony is that you are worked up about this issue because you are getting information from outlets that live off of escalating drama, broad judge mental statements, and threats.

 

I first got wind of it from Bybee himself.  I read his dozens of tweets combined:  Thread by @ericbybee on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

I formed my opinion from that.  He's trying to weaponize the Honor Code to stop academic thought critical of his position, he wants to silence students, he's reducing the opposition to into  one-dimensional simplistic view of conservatives, and he took 61 tweets to do this (I've personally never seen a tweet chain that long).  This is embarrassing behavior for a BYU professor. 

Quote

Dance, puppet! Dance

??? 

Edited March 24, 2022 by helix

[sunstoned]

4 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

It's only controversial to those on the far right and then only because someone made it a political issue to rally the far right troops.  The rest of the educated world looks at this and laughs because each of these is a theory with arguments for and against just like every other theory taught in universities the world over.  Every class I took at BYU had theories that were taught and examined.  The world is ran on theories.  Show me anyone besides those with a far right mentality that are upset and feel these theories should be banished from any discussion.  What is funny about your post is that it doesn't really appear that any of the theories you mentioned were part of the class.  So why did you bring them up?

I agree totally.  Much ado about nothing.  Most of the screaming about this is coming from groups like Accuracy in Academia (AIA), which is basically an alt-right group of thought police. 

 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Irrelevant and non-sequitur. And a personal attack. 

White….

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Personal invective and attack. 

…Fragility

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

I was quite surprised by the vicious attacks from the conservative groups.  Way over the top IMO.  After all, this was just a college assignment. Students are suppose to be exposed to ideas that may be outside their comfort zone.  That's part of a college education.

Try being a conservative or express conservative ideas on a college campus these days. This is absolutely not what is happening these days on campus. Ideas are well regulated. 
 

I found Bybee’s reaction way more controversial than the actual assignment. That is representative of ‘free thought’ on most campuses. It is college. It is a sociology class. Hopefully, the class is filled with a free and open discussion about this topic. I doubt Bybee is open to vigorous debate in his classes. I perused his Facebook. 

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

found Bybee’s reaction way more controversial than the actual assignment.

Same here.  I didn’t find the assignment controversial, especially with the conversation going on the past few years at BYU…just too jargony.  His reaction was weird though.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

Just to provide more context, the course the assignment was for was Sociology 112, which is one of three introductory courses for the Sociology BS degree expected to be taken most likely in the sophomore year, only one of which is required…personally if I meant to get my degree in Soc Sci, it wouldn’t be the course I would take as there are upper level courses on the same subject without it as a requirement and I would still take Anthropology 101 to complete that GE requirement, so I would be unlikely to take the class, unless I had some free credit to fill and then I think I would go with the Multicultural class.

 

It is Current Social Problems, so the assignment seems appropriate to me.  The assignment is jargony for an introductory course though, imo.

https://catalog.byu.edu/family-home-and-social-sciences/sociology/sociology-bs

Jane Lilly Lopez is the only teacher:

https://sociology.byu.edu/directory/jane-lopez

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, bluebell said:

Can someone explain what the bolded means?

Lopez defined “whiteness” as a location of structural advantage or “race privilege”; a “standpoint” or place from which whites look at themselves, at others, and at society; and a set of “cultural practices that are usually unmarked and unnamed.”

Lefties like to use locational metaphors for ideas which they consider similar, like "The student had some trouble around their race policies" instead of saying "about their race policies".

It always reminded me of a military way of seeing the world, if your thoughts were coherent, you were in a "solid place" for the attack on the "incorrect position" held by the other person.

Think of yourself as a tank driver.

You always want to be in a "place of structural advantage" in your political correctness.

I learned that from Angela Davis, my professor.

Seriously, that's the way she spoke.

 

 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

Boy, you really don't like the concept of walking a mile in someone else's shoes do you.

 

 

 

Ah yes, another locational metaphor...

if you are already "where he's at" you don't have to walk that mile I guess...

[Analytics]

If I may relate a story, when I was in college I had some very conservative tendencies (hard for you to imagine now, I'm sure).

At the University of Utah, I took a course on Labor Economics. A huge section of the class had to do with equal pay for equal work, equal pay for comparable work, etc. The professor was quite liberal, and one of the big takeaways was that females were paid less than males for doing the exact same job, and that comparable professions that were dominated by females (e.g. nursing) paid much less than equally valuable and challenging professions that happened to be dominated by men (e.g. electrician). We were given a writing assignment on these topics, and it was a big part of our grade.

The thesis of my paper was that even if women really were discriminated against in terms of getting paid less for the same job, men were being discriminated against because unlike women, they couldn't just marry a high earner of the opposite sex.

The professor said my paper was well written and well argued, and entertaining to read. He said of course he disagreed with everything I said. He gave me an A.

Regarding the OP, we're talking about a college class assignment. This isn't newsworthy. I'm disappointed that students would publicly attack this professor/course/university in their political zeal to be culture warriors. They should be ignored. I commend the Deseret News ant the Salt Lake Tribune for ignoring this non-event.

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Analytics said:

If I may relate a story, when I was in college I had some very conservative tendencies (hard for you to imagine now, I'm sure).

At the University of Utah, I took a course on Labor Economics. A huge section of the class had to do with equal pay for equal work, equal pay for comparable work, etc. The professor was quite liberal, and one of the big takeaways was that females were paid less than males for doing the exact same job, and that comparable professions that were dominated by females (e.g. nursing) paid much less than equally valuable and challenging professions that happened to be dominated by men (e.g. electrician). We were given a writing assignment on these topics, and it was a big part of our grade.

The thesis of my paper was that even if women really were discriminated against in terms of getting paid less for the same job, men were being discriminated against because unlike women, they couldn't just marry a high earner of the opposite sex.

The professor said my paper was well written and well argued, and entertaining to read. He said of course he disagreed with everything I said. He gave me an A.

Regarding the OP, we're talking about a college class assignment. This isn't newsworthy. I'm disappointed that students would publicly attack this professor/course/university in their political zeal to be culture warriors. They should be ignored. I commend the Deseret News ant the Salt Lake Tribune for ignoring this non-event.

That was a good professor, and the kind of professors that college's need, especially in the Arts degrees.  We need teachers that can teach students how to think but not demand that they think certain things.

My husband took an freshman level english class from a very liberal Sierra Club type of professor.  He wrote an essay on fair land use and wilderness areas in national forests that did not support the Sierra Club's position and had to remind her that if she failed him for his conclusions he would take it to the Dean. She was known for giving bad grades to students that didn't support her politics.

 

[bluebell]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This is a very basic start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_inequality

Based on the wiki article, what kind of structural inequality would a student be able to photograph at BYU?  I ask because I'm still not exactly sure what this means and I'm looking for examples to help.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

… one of three introductory courses for the Sociology BS. …

I had to read the phrase more than once to grasp that you weren’t denigrating the sociology curriculum or discipline 😂. 
 

It was the “BS” that threw me. Looked like an epithet at first.