Story Re: Assignment from BYU Professor

[SeekingUnderstanding]

58 minutes ago, longview said:

Your second answer is a little better.  However, your first question is still confusing.  Please clarify what you really mean by this - - -

What kind of bald-faced question is this?  It is obvious bsjkki is stating that systematic lying by the dominant media is a serious problem.  What was your point of your question?  Don't you think bsjkki made an unambiguous statement?  And pretty straightforward?

I was responding to a non-sequitur. I made the following post: 

Quote

I think more important is whether a source is trying to stoke outrage (think anti Mormon literature or say a Senator from Texas quoting about sending white people back to Europe). Often in these cases the actual text or message is twisted so far from its context as to be unrecognizable. I think that many of the sites that SMAC quotes from fall into this category and chasing them down would be exhausting and just not worth it. 
 

I have no doubt that in this country of 330+ million people that you can find egregious examples of people doing just about anything. The question that any responsible person should be answering is whether or not these things are outliers or systemic. Also to be determined are the context in which these ideas are taught. In the example of this homework assignment there has not been a single post in this thread that appears to be familiar with the class in question and the context around the assignment. Instead the assignment is taken out of context and then twisted by sites intentionally designed to evoke outrage. 

Instead of addressing the post bsjkki said that the NY Times lies to provoke outrage. In trying to build common ground that all lies should be condemned I asked if that's a problem. I don't know how to read BSJKKI's post in any way other than saying either - "the other side does it too" or "the other side does it worse". Not sure if that was her intent or not.

 

Unsolicited, but I immensely enjoy the viewpoint that she provides and think she is one of the sites best conservative posters.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Did anyone prove any of SMAC's sources were lying? That is the issue. So many with opposing political leanings dismiss all 'right wing media' and tend to believe everything else. If you read legacy media, you are only getting half  the story and they have proven not be very accurate when it comes to political coverage. So while many conservatives are exposed to it all, many liberals only read their approved sources that have lied repeatedly. The more you read, the more informed you are and able to sift through the lies and half truths or propaganda. I would propose people read opposing views or biased views (everything has a bias) and my favorite...original sources. Chase down all the links to the original source.

Watching a local school board kerfuffle, I read the news coverage and it was one sided. They should at least make an effort to have balanced coverage but that is not what I have witnessed. 

I agree with what you said. All authors have an underlying viewpoint and often an agenda. Some sites and people are blatent in the distorted agenda they push (read cnn and foxnews) and others are more subtle, but there is not such a thing as unbiased coverage.

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I don't know how to read BSJKKI's post in any way other than saying either - "the other side does it too" or "the other side does it worse".

My point was also, people think the New York Times and WaPo are what they used to be. They’re not. Don’t casually dismiss media sources based on faulty assumptions. 
 

I am still waiting for someone to take on Smac’s sources and prove whether they are inaccurate.

Edited March 26, 2022 by bsjkki

[bsjkki]

14 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I mentioned this already, but a 5th grade teacher I sub'd for last week put in her sub plan to read the book pictured below, to the students. I guess because of black history month.  Do you think that's CRT being taught in the schools? Just trying to pinpoint what exactly the issues are. Because that kind of puts me in a predicament if the students tell their parents, it never would have entered my mind before all this stuff about CRT has happened. Do you think they might think I had an agenda?

In the news a little bit ago a representative tried to get a bill passed that all teachers in Utah would need to show the curriculum in advance to the parents, but funny thing is there is already a school website that displays it. I guess they want teachers to pinpoint exactly what is in their lesson plans for each month beforehand. Kind of cray-cray IMO. How do you feel about it, since you're an educator. https://kslnewsradio.com/1963271/teachers-union-opposes-curriculum-bill-under-consideration-in-utah/

This is a very good historic book. History does not equal crt or problematic race based curriculum.
 

Edited March 26, 2022 by bsjkki

[mfbukowski]

13 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is a very good historic book. History does not equal crt or problematic race based curriculum.
 

There is no such thing as "unbiased history"

Every word comes through a human mind and every human mind sees the world differently in some way or other

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

I am still waiting for someone to take on Smac’s sources and prove whether they are inaccurate.

"Prove"?

In these matters, there is no such thing.

[rongo]

15 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is a very good historic book. History does not equal crt or problematic race based curriculum.
 

Agreed. History books (at age level), or even Black History Month items, are not what has parents up in arms. 

"Implicit bias,systemic racism, 1619 Project, white guilt/fragility/privilege, etc." are the sort of things parents and legislatures are up in arms about. A book about Rosa Parks, the sit-ins, and things like that are fine. That's not what is being referred to under the catchphrase of "CRT."

[bsjkki]

32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

There is no such thing as "unbiased history"

Every word comes through a human mind and every human mind sees the world differently in some way or other

I went and listened to it but I do agree with your point. There is no unbiased history just like there is no unbiased media. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by bsjkki

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

Agreed. History books (at age level), or even Black History Month items, are not what has parents up in arms. 

"Implicit bias,systemic racism, 1619 Project, white guilt/fragility/privilege, etc." are the sort of things parents and legislatures are up in arms about. A book about Rosa Parks, the sit-ins, and things like that are fine. That's not what is being referred to under the catchphrase of "CRT."

Could/would you give me an example, sorry to act so naive. 

[bsjkki]

@Tacenda

 

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/trouble-shooters/parents-angered-by-segregation-experiment-at-local-elementary-school

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2497271/mom-slams-woke-high-school-failing-biracial-son-whiteness/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-privilege-class-at-_n_2489997

Edited March 27, 2022 by bsjkki

[rongo]

34 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Could/would you give me an example, sorry to act so naive. 

No problem at all. An example is the training from Social Centric my former district had. It was mandatory (I didn't go, anyway, but I was at the pre-conference because it was an after school PD). The point of the eight hour training was to train us to be "anti-racists, and to carry this back into our classrooms with activities and info. This included "implicit bias" and "systemic racism" (everyone is hopelessly biased, even when they think they aren't. Especially when they think they aren't. Racism is embedded in everything at all levels of society. It is the warp and woof of America from it's founding).

The line from my pre-training was, "America is land of the thief, home of the slave, not Land of the free, home of the brave."

I'm hoping you wouldn't be expected to indoctrinate your 5th graders with stuff like that, given where you live.

[Tacenda]

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

No problem at all. An example is the training from Social Centric my former district had. It was mandatory (I didn't go, anyway, but I was at the pre-conference because it was an after school PD). The point of the eight hour training was to train us to be "anti-racists, and to carry this back into our classrooms with activities and info. This included "implicit bias" and "systemic racism" (everyone is hopelessly biased, even when they think they aren't. Especially when they think they aren't. Racism is embedded in everything at all levels of society. It is the warp and woof of America from it's founding).

The line from my pre-training was, "America is land of the thief, home of the slave, not Land of the free, home of the brave."

I'm hoping you wouldn't be expected to indoctrinate your 5th graders with stuff like that, given where you live.

No, and I have never seen a sub plan in the over fifteen years of sub'g with activities such as the pre-training that you luckily missed. I am now understanding a lot better, thanks to what you and bsjkki have provided. 

The whole difference to me if I'm understanding right, is that you can read about history and learn from it, without mentioning that students need to be anti-racist whether through a teacher's lesson plan that they received from a teacher training class, or on their own.

IOW, training students to not be racist as if it's a given, and it should never be brought up especially the bold (mine) in your post, basically to have zero pride in their country. Was that training in Arizona? I'm appalled!

  

[bsjkki]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

No, and I have never seen a sub plan in the over fifteen years of sub'g with activities such as the pre-training that you luckily missed. I am now understanding a lot better, thanks to what you and bsjkki have provided. 

The whole difference to me if I'm understanding right, is that you can read about history and learn from it, without mentioning that students need to be anti-racist whether through a teacher's lesson plan that they received from a teacher training class, or on their own.

IOW, training students to not be racist as if it's a given, and it should never be brought up especially the bold (mine) in your post, basically to have zero pride in their country. Was that training in Arizona? I'm appalled!

  

My school district had the kids participate in privilege walks in middle school.

https://medium.com/@MegB/why-i-dont-won-t-facilitate-privilege-walks-anymore-and-what-i-do-instead-380c95490e10

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

My school district had the kids participate in privilege walks in middle school.

https://medium.com/@MegB/why-i-dont-won-t-facilitate-privilege-walks-anymore-and-what-i-do-instead-380c95490e10

Oh dear, I can't imagine, now I get the reason people are outraged. Please tell me you and Rongo are drama queens/kings now.

[kimpearson]

I have some simple questions for all the participants in this thread.  Does the US have a racism problem? If so. to what extent?  Is it way overblown?  If the US has a race problem, how should we go about fixing it?  If there is no racism problem in the US, what can be done to get everyone to understand there is no problem?

[JustAnAustralian]

Meanwhile in Australia https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/nsw-school-investigated-over-proslavery-assignment/news-story/41c0d720489de501eceec6590e6e4f27

[sunstoned]

12 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The New York Times and other legacy media systemically lie to provoke outrage.

So does Tucker Carlson and Fox News.  So what is your point?

 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

So does Tucker Carlson and Fox News.  So what is your point?

 

I believe her point is check original sources before getting outraged.

[Tacenda]

Wow, stepping back now. This video, is an encapsulation of what CRT is, and what it isn't. Warning, a few f bombs thrown, anyone care to give time for a listen to the end to counteract my reaction of the other side of the coin? Don't we need to use logical teaching, as in learn to discuss rather than pass laws on every little thing and micromanage schools as well.

 

 

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, stepping back now. This video, is an encapsulation of what CRT is, and what it isn't. Warning, a few f bombs thrown, anyone care to give time for a listen to the end to counteract my reaction of the other side of the coin? Don't we need to use logical teaching, as in learn to discuss rather than pass laws on every little thing and micromanage schools as well.

 

 

Without courses in Marxism, I don't think anyone could pronounce CRT as Marxist or not.

First, always be suspicious of supposed TV teachers with a laugh track. Most scholars don't use those.

Have personally been taught Marxist theory by Angela Davis at UCLA, I think I am qualified to discuss it.

Yes, it is Marxist in structure, but the oppressed classes are oppressed by race in CRT, whereas in original Marxism the oppressed were the working class. 

There weren't a whole lot of black or brown folks in 19th century Germany, but there were lots of oppressed workers.

But all the other ideas, of which we are aware are there as in Marxism.

Socialism Plus is required to bring it about,in Marxism.

And why is this thread allegedly NOT about politics?

See there are folks out there called Mormons, why don't we talk about THEM?

That might be an interesting twist!

Edited March 27, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This video, is an encapsulation of what CRT is, and what it isn't….

Wow…Rihanna’s pregnant?  Had’t heard. 😛 

My daughter loves John Oliver; he is quite clever, funny, and insightful imo and very influential to the point there is a “John Oliver effect” apparently. If he wasn’t British, maybe he could run for President.  Just wish he would cut the expletives down to at least a tenth, I would watch him more…but I get that is language in motion as usual.  However, he is a comedian.  I wouldn’t see him as an expert or original source for CRT.  Emmys aren’t the same as a degree in history or politics or law.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

15 hours ago, kimpearson said:

Does the US have a racism problem? If so. to what extent?  Is it way overblown? 

Yes.  To various extents.  When you're the victim, you'd say it wasn't overblown.  When you compare the US to many other nations in the world, it is absolutely all overblown up to high heck.  Holy, holy, HOLY crap does the US get made fun of by citizens in other nations, for how good our minorities have it, and how little we believe it.  

 

Quote

If the US has a race problem, how should we go about fixing it?

Heh.  This forum doesn't allow politics, so I'll just point out that a lot of folk start rolling our eyes whenever we hear about how "we" need to "fix" something.  Humans are going to be imperfect, fallible, agenda-driven, error prone humans forever.  That said, there are plenty of ideas.  Exporting this church's family-centered orientation to as much of the various facets of US culture as possible.  Can you imagine just how much many of our social ills would be reduced, if more fathers were present in more homes?  Resources aimed at improving elementary and high school, and high-school graduation rates.  Anything that convinces kids to graduate high school, get jobs, and not have kids until married, will go far in reducing our social ills.  I wouldn't mind some of the prison reform ideas I hear from time to time, aimed at education and rehabilitation.   And I'm content to lift the voices of various members of historically marginalized minority groups who talk about the dehumanizing, insulting notions that white people need to do anything besides get the crap out of their way.

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[Calm]

Excuse the derail for a moment….

 

@Scott Lloyd  I can’t PM you.  I have a possible nice opportunity for you (your family actually) if you can pm me your email.