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Members and Temple in Kyiv Ukraine


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You must be on a phone, Rod. It took a bit for me to see the detail. You don’t want anyone to tell you, it is too snortworthy…though I will PM you if you can’t get a good enough picture. 

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52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Misinformation Game!

This is purportedly video of Ukraine being broadcast on an Israeli channel. Can you spot the thing that should not be in Ukraine unless things there have gotten really weird.

 

The two stormtroopers next to the wreckage of the Tie Fighter - their uniforms are wrong.  They should be wearing pilot uniforms.

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Russia is tightening down on blocking foreign stations and information beyond what they were and are even shutting down their own media that aren’t reporting things “correctly” enough. They are losing the propaganda war both domestically and abroad.

In horrifying news there is a firefight right outside of a nuclear reactor. There is a live feed of one now and a building is on fire but I don’t think it is anything that could threaten a disaster. If the fighting shifts who knows? Other nuclear reactors are under threat. There are talks about making the reactors off-limits to both sides but Russia likely wants to cut power. Most of these reactors are more modern and safer than the one that caused Chernobyl but there are some bad scenarios that could come out of this. I would float the idea of putting some neutral power’s troops in but where is this hypothetical neutral power and the risk to their soldiers is probably too high.

Just a yikes. Some have floated the idea that a nuclear disaster would be in Russia’s best interest as energy shortages might make other nations desperate enough to ease sanctions but that would be in the long term and Russia would also be directly responsible for the disaster.

Also reports of Russian tanks and fighting vehicles being shipped for the Far East. Lots of jokes of this being Japan’s chance to reclaim the southern section of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands that they lost to the Soviet Union in the Second World War.

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Note that a Chernobyl level disaster is not impossible but it is very very unlikely. Newer plants are designed to contain disasters and shut down as needed. In theory if you broke the exact right stuff you could cause a similar event but the odds of it happening are really low.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Note that a Chernobyl level disaster is not impossible but it is very very unlikely. Newer plants are designed to contain disasters and shut down as needed. In theory if you broke the exact right stuff you could cause a similar event but the odds of it happening are really low.

It depends on if a bomb or missile hits the reactor.  All it takes is one stupid mistake.  Russia should be avoiding that plant like the plague.  A significant amount of radiation would blow into Russia and it might cause big problems with their beloved naval base on the black sea nearby. 

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Likely cluster bombs being used by Russia:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60591017

So the US does not appear to be a signatory of the Convention Against Cluster Munitions…anyone know why (I realize political, so if it involves partisan politics, please ignore and do not answer, but it has existed with both Dem and Rep presidents and yet not signed, so maybe another reason)?  Seems like a nobrainer…

https://www.un.org/disarmament/convention-on-cluster-munitions/

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Likely cluster bombs being used by Russia:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60591017

So the US does not appear to be a signatory of the Convention Against Cluster Munitions…anyone know why (I realize political, so if it involves partisan politics, please ignore and do not answer, but it has existed with both Dem and Rep presidents and yet not signed, so maybe another reason)?  Seems like a nobrainer…

https://www.un.org/disarmament/convention-on-cluster-munitions/

Cluster bombs are an effective weapon.  The US has not given up land mines as well as those have benefits.  Pretty much any weapon not a problem as long as they are used by capable and responsible forces and the clean up the mess when its over.  The biggest problem with cluster bombs is that some of the small bombs do not explode at the intended time.  They hurt people later on when they pick them up or walk on them.  That could be overcome by having timing devices on them that self destruct after a certain time. 

Edited by carbon dioxide
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Cluster munitions are not really a partisan issue.

The US recommended a “counter-treaty” that required cluster munitions be tested for failure rates and meet certain standards. No one bit on it. Probably because I believe at the time only the latest US munitions met those standards. The US still has cluster munitions but the last regular use of cluster munitions was in Iraq and their use was ended in 2002 or 2003 if I remember right. There was one single use in Yemen in 2009 and I believe nothing since.

The US iirc was willing to sign the land-mine treaty as long as Korea was exempt because their coordination with South Korea made being in the treaty a problem. President Obama restricted land mines as a matter of policy to only be used in North Korea. President Trump removed that restriction. In practice the US only uses non-persistent land mines that turn themselves on after a set period. That is not a foolproof thing as things can and do break but it means the US isn’t leaving behind huge death fields.

The problem with saying any weapon is not a problem as long as it is used capably and responsibly ignores the reality of war. If you are losing the conflict the responsible use calculus changes and you are less worried about cleaning up afterwards. The US can say this as they haven’t lost a conventional conflict in a long time but if the US is unwilling to sign on to a treaty others refuse as well. For a long time Finland held back from the landmine treaty partially using the US as justification. The real reason is that land mines were one of their best defenses in the event of a Russian invasion.

In any case I don’t think the Russians would have signed the treaty even if the US had. The Russians love their artillery. It is a thing going back to World War 2 and played heavily into Cold War doctrine. The Russians initially thought of nukes as the ultimate artillery weapon but the US quickly disabused them of that notion by making it clear that the use of tactical nukes would mean retaliation with strategic nuclear attacks.

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15 hours ago, Wilderland said:

It’s still standing, and appears untouched.

6420C754-73E9-42B9-9574-102903F01E2D.jpeg

It is over. The Russians took it. The staff have stayed on to ensure that there is no danger and they got in contact with the International Atomic Agency (think that is the name) to interface and deal with one minor problem that was reported to be unrelated to the battle. The firefighters were also eventually allowed in (after being shot at) and put out the fire.

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16 hours ago, Wilderland said:

It’s still standing, and appears untouched.

6420C754-73E9-42B9-9574-102903F01E2D.jpeg

looks like it may become the temple in Russia President Nelson mentioned in conference

makes sense now why he didn't reveal its location then

heard from a missionary friend who served in Ukraine before being evacuated to Moldova and then back to the US.  The church didn't evacuate the native missionaries.  It must have been tough to leave a Ukrainian companion behind.  

Edited by gopher
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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It is over. The Russians took it. The staff have stayed on to ensure that there is no danger and they got in contact with the International Atomic Agency (think that is the name) to interface and deal with one minor problem that was reported to be unrelated to the battle. The firefighters were also eventually allowed in (after being shot at) and put out the fire.

I assume you are talking about the nuclear plant and not the temple?

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FWIW, an acquaintance of mine who is an assistant recorder at a non-US temple told me that the Kiev Temple was closed and locked on the day the Russians invaded. At that time, the recorder of the temple was directed to destroy all sacred materials, which included burning the veils of the temple before leaving, which he did.

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:25 AM, rodheadlee said:

We have the means to stop this. We don't have the willpower to use it. We are afraid to honor the promise we made to protect Ukraine if they gave up their nuclear weapons. Our word is worth nothing. Why would God listen to us?

Ah so it is our fault now even though many were praying to God that Russia would not invade. By the way you totally ignored my questions.

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On 3/3/2022 at 12:03 PM, rodheadlee said:

Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow. You think WW3 is not on the horizon?

I'll research the wording of the agreement. 

Yea well ummm no.  I hope world leaders do not rely on the view of religious zealots as things progress.

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22 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Ah so it is our fault now even though many were praying to God that Russia would not invade. By the way you totally ignored my questions.

Why would God answer the prayers of someone who doesn't believe in Him? But to answer your question: These things must needs be.

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21 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Yea well ummm no.  I hope world leaders do not rely on the view of religious zealots as things progress.

It's ok if you call me a zealot. It just so happens that I can read the writing on the wall. Some people refuse to look at the wall. 

I don't endorse violence but the only thing evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. 

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