Is the "Mormon" label fading?

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not really, just seems logical to me that they might be used as such if there ever was a need.  

So are you looking at temples, then, as  possible shelters in the wake of disasters? 

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t see it as food storage being deemphasized so much as it being properly and wisely placed within the general context of personal and family preparedness and self-reliance, of which food storage is only a component. 

Well put. To be useful, directions need to match our current context and apply across all nations. This is the whole point of a living church.

From the Church's guide on this topic:

Quote

THE BASICS OF FAMILY HOME STORAGE

THREE-MONTH SUPPLY

Build a small supply of food that is part of your normal, daily diet. One way to do this is to purchase a few extra items each week to build a one-week supply of food. Then you can gradually increase your supply until it is sufficient for three months. These items should be rotated regularly to avoid spoilage.

DRINKING WATER

Store drinking water for circumstances in which the water supply may be polluted or disrupted. If water comes directly from a good, pretreated source then no additional purification is needed; otherwise, pretreat water before use. Store water in sturdy, leak-proof, breakage-resistant containers. Consider using plastic bottles commonly used for juices and soda. Keep water containers away from heat sources and direct sunlight.

FINANCIAL RESERVE

Establish a financial reserve by saving a little money each week and gradually increasing it to a reasonable amount (see All Is Safely Gathered In: Family Finances guide).

LONGER-TERM SUPPLY

For longer-term needs, and where permitted, gradually build a supply of food that will last a long time and that you can use to stay alive, such as wheat, white rice, and beans. These items can last 30 years or more when properly packaged and stored in a cool, dry place. A portion of these items may be rotated in your three-month supply.

 

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

I don’t see it as food storage being deemphasized so much as it being properly and wisely placed within the general context of personal and family preparedness and self-reliance, of which food storage is only a component. 
 

Too often in the past, food storage has amounted to a waste of good money, as food reserves have been allowed to molder and rot, only to be eventually thrown out when the owners move or die.  
 

Having an emergency cash fund in place — a continual cushion against having to incur debt or dip into retirement investments — has been neglected too often by too many. I believe that for most of us, there is a far more urgent and frequent need for a cash reserve than there is for stored food. 
 

For some, there can be a sort of dark appeal in looking forward to the end of the world, but the fact is we must live and thrive in civilization as it exists and for as long as it lasts until the coming of the Millennium. 

Our ward still has a food storage specialist. And an emergency preparedness specialist (which is me). 

[longview]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Our ward still has a food storage specialist. And an emergency preparedness specialist (which is me). 

Which means you have to be well versed in all the conspiracy theories.  And understand who is the abominable church of the devil.  And identify all the conspiring men.  

[Rain]

 

15 hours ago, bluebell said:

Our ward still has a food storage specialist. And an emergency preparedness specialist (which is me). 

Do you have a food storage specialist or a provident living specialist? I ask because as a provident living specialist I learned from reading the handbook that the 2 are not the same, but knew that nearly every one was called as as provident living specialist, but was acting as food storage specialist.

Edit: I went to the bishop at that point and asked about it, told him I was willing to do either, but needed to know which one he meant to call me as. He thought about it, said I was right, talked with the ward council and then actually released me because the ward didn't need a provident living specialist or apparently a food storage specialist.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Rain

[bluebell]

Just now, Rain said:

 

Do you have a food storage specialist or a provident living specialist? I ask because as a provident living specialist I learned from reading the handbook that the 2 are not the same, but knew that nearly every one was called as as provident living specialist, but was acting as food storage specialist.

I looked it up on Member Tools because I had no idea what her actual calling was and in there it says she is the ward "welfare and self-reliance specialist".

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I looked it up on Member Tools because I had no idea what her actual calling was and in there it says she is the ward "welfare and self-reliance specialist".

Interesting.  I added to my post above while you were posting.  That kind of sounds like it is combining provident living with food storage, though the terms lean towards the provident living call.

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

Do you have a food storage specialist or a provident living specialist? I ask because as a provident living specialist I learned from reading the handbook that the 2 are not the same, but knew that nearly every one was called as as provident living specialist, but was acting as food storage specialist.

Edit: I went to the bishop at that point and asked about it, told him I was willing to do either, but needed to know which one he meant to call me as. He thought about it, said I was right, talked with the ward council and then actually released me because the ward didn't need a provident living specialist or apparently a food storage specialist.

 

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I looked it up on Member Tools because I had no idea what her actual calling was and in there it says she is the ward "welfare and self-reliance specialist".

 

Just now, Rain said:

Interesting.  I added to my post above while you were posting.  That kind of sounds like it is combining provident living with food storage, though the terms lean towards the provident living call.

So, do your wards have active provident living initiatives going? 

It seems to me that the stake self-reliance classes have petered out, after an initial push a few years ago. Maybe they're still going strong in some areas?

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

So, do your wards have active provident living initiatives going? 

It seems to me that the stake self-reliance classes have petered out, after an initial push a few years ago. Maybe they're still going strong in some areas?

Our ward has active self reliance classes going on, at the stake level.  I get emails about them.  They have them twice a year I think.  And I know the self reliance specialist is active because she puts out stuff in the ward bulletin and on the RS facebook page every couple of weeks or so.

[Rain]

23 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

So, do your wards have active provident living initiatives going? 

It seems to me that the stake self-reliance classes have petered out, after an initial push a few years ago. Maybe they're still going strong in some areas?

I'm not sure, just because what I learned about the provident living calling which was more than 10 years ago. The calling from everything I read in the handbook was to work with the leaders of the ward to help those who needed assistance with living providently.  Perhaps teaching someone to budget, or clean house or make basic meals.  While the ward could have classes on those things if needed it looked more at individual needs when leaders discovered that someone didn't have those skills.  

When you say initiative it  sounds like to me a program for the entire group body like the food storage classes and buying groups that many wards have had or like the stake self reliance classes you mention.

I know our stake is doing some kind of thing, but I'm not sure what.  Every few months it will be mentioned.  Currently there are ham radio classes happening, but I don't know about the other things.  Incidentally the ham radio class is also talking about building your own solar.

But I wouldn't know about provident living since it would be treated differently.  Just went to see if we have a provident living specialist and like bluebell mentioned we have a welfare and self reliance specialist instead.  Not that long ago he was the employment specialist.  I always thought employment should be combined with provident living (unless there are a lot of unemployed) so maybe it is now under that calling.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Rain

[Calm]

Looks like we have rumors going around, though the one below is focused on economic reasons rather than end times.  Some discussion here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10223624235985345&id=1574530763&m_entstream_source=timeline

 

So who knows, maybe we will be hearing it in conference.  I was thinking I need to start figuring out how to use some of the stuff that doesn’t last as long. I have already been using quite a few dried vegetables and fruits in my main dish salads because I can’t stay on my feet too long…and quite a number of them I prefer the dried taste actually. 

[Scott Lloyd]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

Looks like we have rumors going around, though the one below is focused on economic reasons rather than end times.  Some discussion here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10223624235985345&id=1574530763&m_entstream_source=timeline

 

So who knows, maybe we will be hearing it in conference.  I was thinking I need to start figuring out how to use some of the stuff that doesn’t last as long. I have already been using quite a few dried vegetables and fruits in my main dish salads because I can’t stay on my feet too long…and quite a number of them I prefer the dried taste actually. 

While a well-organized food storage plan is prudent regardless of times and circumstances — and is a standing admonition from Church leaders — I’m disinclined to get too fearful with regard to inflation and rumored food shortages until I see what happens post-2024. 

[Tacenda]

nvm

Edited April 1, 2022 by Tacenda

[Danzo]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:06 AM, rongo said:

 

 

So, do your wards have active provident living initiatives going? 

It seems to me that the stake self-reliance classes have petered out, after an initial push a few years ago. Maybe they're still going strong in some areas?

our self reliance class are going strong on our stake.  Just finished a class in December and we started another one a couple of weeks ago. 

[pogi]

8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

While a well-organized food storage plan is prudent regardless of times and circumstances — and is a standing admonition from Church leaders — I’m disinclined to get too fearful with regard to inflation and rumored food shortages until I see what happens post-2024. 

Despite Presidents getting all the blame and credit, Presidents have little control over this kind of stuff.

I agree though that the 2024 election is a potentially fearful event (probably for different reasons than you).  I hope our republic can survive it.   

Edited April 1, 2022 by pogi

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

Despite Presidents getting all the blame and credit, Presidents have little control over this kind of stuff.

Over inflation? Their policies either exacerbate or ameliorate it. 

Killing pipelines (first act on day one) and yanking oil leases has had a direct impact on gas prices --- a year before the war in Ukraine. Increasing the price of oil to the point where people would be forced to buy electric cars was a talking point during the campaign.

Covid restrictions and shutdowns/lockdowns had (and continues to have) a direct effect on the supply chain, material shortages, and the job market. 

Both Trump and Biden injected trillions of stimulus money into an economy that was set up to be super-heated (coming out of the Covid shutdowns and restrictions) --- with the inevitable result of runaway inflation. 

Presidents are rightly regarded as having a lot of impact on "this kind of stuff."

 

[pogi]

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

Over inflation? Their policies either exacerbate or ameliorate it. 

Presidents have almost zero authority to do anything unilaterally that affects the economy, including providing stimulus checks (which I recall the previous president being a big fan of too, which many in his party didn't like).  In terms of reversing inflation, congress and the Fed Res have more control - so does private industry.

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

Killing pipelines (first act on day one) and yanking oil leases has had a direct impact on gas prices --- a year before the war in Ukraine. Increasing the price of oil to the point where people would be forced to buy electric cars was a talking point during the campaign.

It is simply not true that the president or any policy is holding back domestic energy production.

There are currently over 9,000 leases that oil companies are sitting on, unused.  Biden is in fact pleading for these companies to use them.  Biden has issued more permits to drill on public lands than Trump, FYI.

See:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/12/06/biden-is-approving-more-oil-gas-drilling-permits-public-lands-than-trump-analysis-finds/

https://www.accountable.us/news/biden-admin-approved-hundreds-more-public-lands-drilling-permits-than-trump/

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/03/13/joe-biden-oil-industry-drilling-permits-fact-check/6986833001/

https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/new-data-biden-slays-trumps-first-year-drilling-permitting-by-34-2022-01-21/

All of this to the chagrin of climate scientists.  Yet, it is all the Presidents fault.  No, not buying it. 

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

Covid restrictions and shutdowns/lockdowns had (and continues to have) a direct effect on the supply chain, material shortages, and the job market. 

These shutdowns were local and according to guidelines of CDC.  The President had little to do with it all.  These shutdowns were also more widespread during the previous presidents term, FYI.    So....no.  Not buying it.

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

Both Trump and Biden injected trillions of stimulus money into an economy that was set up to be super-heated (coming out of the Covid shutdowns and restrictions) --- with the inevitable result of runaway inflation. 

Agreed, with the approval of congress.  These men can do very little on their own. 

32 minutes ago, rongo said:

Presidents are rightly regarded as having a lot of impact on "this kind of stuff."

Very little.  

Edited April 1, 2022 by pogi

[Scott Lloyd]

51 minutes ago, pogi said:

Despite Presidents getting all the blame and credit, Presidents have little control over this kind of stuff.

I agree though that the 2024 election is a potentially fearful event (probably for different reasons than you).  I hope our republic can survive it.   

 

40 minutes ago, rongo said:

Over inflation? Their policies either exacerbate or ameliorate it. 

Killing pipelines (first act on day one) and yanking oil leases has had a direct impact on gas prices --- a year before the war in Ukraine. Increasing the price of oil to the point where people would be forced to buy electric cars was a talking point during the campaign.

Covid restrictions and shutdowns/lockdowns had (and continues to have) a direct effect on the supply chain, material shortages, and the job market. 

Both Trump and Biden injected trillions of stimulus money into an economy that was set up to be super-heated (coming out of the Covid shutdowns and restrictions) --- with the inevitable result of runaway inflation. 

Presidents are rightly regarded as having a lot of impact on "this kind of stuff."

 

It’s hard to ignore the fact that the economy began its steady decline from January 2021 — which is why I decline to let economic conditions send me into an apocalyptic state of panic just yet. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[pogi]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

It’s hard to ignore the fact that the economy began its steady decline in January 2021. 

Could the pandemic of 2020 Have anything to do with it?  Hard to ignore that.  All the shutdowns, hospital bills, international trade and shipping disasters, huge stimulus checks, record low interest rates etc...  

Sorry, the President doesn’t have that much power.

Edited April 1, 2022 by pogi

[rongo]

21 minutes ago, pogi said:

It is simply not true that the president or any policy is holding back domestic energy production.

There are currently over 9,000 leases that oil companies are sitting on, unused.  Biden is in fact pleading for these companies to use them.  Biden has issued more permits to drill on public lands than Trump, FYI.

This is spin because he is taking it on the chin for his policies. The reason there are unused leases and permits is because it does no good to drill or develop if you don't have a way to get the oil to the refineries. The unused leases are unused because they couldn't get the oil to the refineries if they find it, and that is by design (cf. the killing of the pipelines).

21 minutes ago, pogi said:

These shutdowns were local and according to guidelines of CDC.  The President had little to do with it all. 

Local "and according to the guidelines of the CDC?" That would be . . . the Biden administration (he put in Rochele Walensky). And the CDC has taken a big prestige hit with its political agendas (e.g., collusion with teachers' unions to keep school guidelines separate from other similar areas, despite "the science"). 

The big one that the Biden administration affected was at the ports. Biden administration vaccination requirements for shippers, longshoremen, etc. made it so that shippers from other countries faced huge bottlenecks and roadblocks for unloading (that's why there were the ships with shipping containers sitting for months off of Long Beach). Ditto with the vaccine mandate for truck drivers. All of these pieces in the supply chain were directly impacted by unitateral Biden administrative policy (not needing congressional approval). 

As you remember, Biden's way of doing an end run around this with respect to "employers with more than 100 employees) was to have it be an "OSHA rule," rather than a law. He pulled out of the dive after the Supreme Court struck down the rule (and the pandemic was waning, anyway). Presidents (on both sides) regularly rule unilaterally via executive order, precisely because it circumvents the need for congressional approval. 

He is rightly regarded as owning all of this. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by rongo

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

Ummmmmm.... could the pandemic of 2020 Have anything to do with it?  All the shutdowns, hospital bills, international trade and shipping disasters, huge stimulus checks, record low interest rates etc...  

Sorry, the President doesn’t have that much power.

Things were going comparatively well in prior years, even in 2019 and 2020, when the panic was raging. There were some shortages at the grocery store, but no runaway inflation and no insanely high prices at the pump. The nation was energy independent. All this changed stemming from a flurry of executive orders in January 2021. 
 

Again, this is why I decline to fly into apocalyptic panic until I see what the future holds. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Analytics]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

It’s hard to ignore the fact that the economy began its steady decline from January 2021 — which is why I decline to let economic conditions send me into an apocalyptic state of panic just yet. 

What makes you think this is a fact? The inflation-adjusted GDP (i.e. real GDP) was $18.67 trillion in December of 2020, and was $19.78 trillion two years later, a healthy growth rate of 3% per year. 

(US Monthly Real GDP (ycharts.com))

The economy grew by 431,000 jobs last month, and the economy has now regained 93% of the jobs lost during the pandemic.

Jobs Report News: Live Updates on Inflation, Hiring, and the Labor Market - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

The unemployment rate was 6.7% in December 2020, and is 3.6% now.

Civilian unemployment rate (bls.gov)

It's true that oil prices have gone up (in April of 2020 a barrel of oil was a negative $37.63 a barrel), but prices being that low wasn't a good thing and wasn't sustainable, and it wasn't caused by the president. Nobody was driving, and oil producers were producing more oil than they could sell or store. So, they radically shut down production. Now since the economy is strong and growing, people are driving and flying more and purchasing gas. This has caused prices to rise, which is causing companies to produce more. However, it is a global market, so somebody isn't going to sell oil cheaply in America when they could make more money by exporting it. It's basic supply and demand. 

That's how I see it, at least.

What makes you think we've been in a steady decline since the middle of the pandemic? 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Analytics

[pogi]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

This is spin because he is taking it on the chin for his policies. The reason there are unused leases and permits is because it does no good to drill or develop if you don't have a way to get the oil to the refineries. The unused leases are unused because they couldn't get the oil to the refineries if they find it, and that is by design (cf. the killing of the pipelines).

Funny how just a second ago you were dissing him for "yanking oil leases", and claiming that as a cause of oil price inflation.   Changing your story now in light of the facts?  I see.   

Did their trucks and railways breakdown?  Oil companies have always used overland trucks and railways to get the oil to pipelines or directly to refineries.  

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Local "and according to the guidelines of the CDC?" That would be . . . the Biden administration (he put in Rochele Walensky). And the CDC has taken a big prestige hit with its political agendas (e.g., collusion with teachers' unions to keep school guidelines separate from other similar areas, despite "the science"). 

Yes, CDC guidelines are not mandatorily enforced.  They are guidelines (recommendations).  Local governments sometimes follow them, sometimes they don't.  The CDC has no power over them to force shutdowns. 

1 hour ago, rongo said:

The big one that the Biden administration affected was at the ports. Biden administration vaccination requirements for shippers, longshoremen, etc. made it so that shippers from other countries faced huge bottlenecks and roadblocks for unloading (that's why there were the ships with shipping containers sitting for months off of Long Beach). Ditto with the vaccine mandate for truck drivers. All of these pieces in the supply chain were directly impacted by unitateral Biden administrative policy (not needing congressional approval). 

Ya...no.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/posts-spread-baseless-claims-about-cause-of-cargo-ship-backups/

1 hour ago, rongo said:

He is rightly regarded as owning all of this. 

Nothin I sway will cause you to believe differently.  So continue on...

Some more reading you can dismiss if you want:

https://fortune.com/2020/10/12/us-economy-president-impact-trump/

https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02/05/how-much-control-do-presidents-really-have-over-the-economy/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/upshot/presidents-have-less-power-over-the-economy-than-you-might-think.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/why-the-economy-grows-faster-under-democrats-than-republicans/375180/

https://www.twincities.com/2020/09/20/real-world-economics-presidents-have-much-less-power-over-economy-that-people-think/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/11/presidents-do-not-control-economies-or-gdp/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-much-impact-can-a-president-have-on-the-economy/

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by pogi

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Again, this is why I decline to fly into apocalyptic panic until I see what the future holds. 

Me too.  If one potential candidate decides to run (if he is not imprisoned first), I might start panicking.   If he wins, we are hosed.  If he loses, we are hosed as we will see a Jan 6th redo with a vengeance.  Democracy is already on the brink with most republicans thinking the election was stolen.  A second loss will lead to complete lack of trust in the system (even if it was a legitimate loss) and all heck will break loose.  Honestly, I think I am more afraid of him losing than winning.  

Pray that he doesn't run for the sake of our republic.  

Edited April 1, 2022 by pogi

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Analytics said:

What makes you think this is a fact? The inflation-adjusted GDP (i.e. real GDP) was $18.67 trillion in December of 2020, and was $19.78 trillion two years later, a healthy growth rate of 3% per year. 

(US Monthly Real GDP (ycharts.com))

The economy grew by 431,000 jobs last month, and the economy has now regained 93% of the jobs lost during the pandemic.

Jobs Report News: Live Updates on Inflation, Hiring, and the Labor Market - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

The unemployment rate was 6.7% in December 2020, and is 3.6% now.

Civilian unemployment rate (bls.gov)

It's true that oil prices have gone up (in April of 2020 a barrel of oil was a negative $37.63 a barrel), but prices being that low wasn't a good thing and wasn't sustainable, and it wasn't caused by the president. Nobody was driving, and oil producers were producing more oil than they could sell or store. So, they radically shut down production. Now since the economy is strong and growing, people are driving and flying more and purchasing gas. This has caused prices to rise, which is causing companies to produce more. However, it is a global market, so somebody isn't going to sell oil cheaply in America when they could make more money by exporting it. It's basic supply and demand. 

That's how I see it, at least.

What makes you think we've been in a steady decline since the middle of the pandemic? 

Thank you for the balanced responses.