Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right

[Teancum]

I just finished reading this boo.  Has anyone else here read it?  It is a great book.  I kne ETB was very political and very extreme right wing.  But I did not realize how far he took it nor that he had presidential aspirations.  It seems that politics almost took precedence over his apostolic calling.  It also seems he has had a huge impact on the political views of so many church member in the US and especially in the west.  It seems pretty certain he was a right wing extremist.  The dominance of the Republican party among Latter day Saints can likely be laid at his feet as can so much of the right wing extremism among church members today. They all rely on his sermons extensively.

It amazes me how much influence and lasting impact, and not always for good, that one strong willed LDS leader can have and leave on the church. ETB did it politically.  McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith did it in regards to dogmatic doctrine.

[Ragerunner]

39 minutes ago, Teancum said:

The dominance of the Republican party among Latter day Saints can likely be laid at his feet as can so much of the right wing extremism among church members today. They all rely on his sermons extensively.

This statement can never be overstated.

I have done a lot of research on this and his ‘battles’ with previous church leaders, first presidencies and byu are almost shocking.

I think Covid has shined a light on just how extreme many members and local leaders are. I also think current church leadership is now recognizing this and trying to plot a path forward away from this extremism. They are meeting a lot of resistance from many on Covid, racism, immigration and more. Its going to be hard to undo 50 years.

I look forward to this discussion.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

................. They are meeting a lot of resistance from many on Covid, racism, immigration and more. Its going to be hard to undo 50 years..................

You may have noticed, however, that the Brethren are not pushing anything hard.  It is more like gentle persuasion.  I don't detect a lot of resistance.  Most Latter-day Saints are good-hearted people with a fine set of priorities.  Moreover, the younger generation will soon shed many of the old attitudes -- if they have not already.  The truly crazy cultists will crash and burn on their own.  What was it that Sir Mick Jagger said?  You know, the guy who studied at the London School of Economics, 1962-63.  He said "Time is on my side." 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Robert F. Smith

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

I just finished reading this boo.  Has anyone else here read it?  It is a great book.  I kne ETB was very political and very extreme right wing.  But I did not realize how far he took it nor that he had presidential aspirations.  It seems that politics almost took precedence over his apostolic calling.  It also seems he has had a huge impact on the political views of so many church member in the US and especially in the west.  It seems pretty certain he was a right wing extremist.  The dominance of the Republican party among Latter day Saints can likely be laid at his feet as can so much of the right wing extremism among church members today. They all rely on his sermons extensively.

It amazes me how much influence and lasting impact, and not always for good, that one strong willed LDS leader can have and leave on the church. ETB did it politically.  McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith did it in regards to dogmatic doctrine.

Pretty much. One thing I heard a lot talking to children and grandchildren of the people who dealt with this era was how exhausting the leadership found the whole thing.

Ever since I was old enough to really have opinions on US presidents Eisenhower was one of my favorites and learning about then-Elder Benson’s backstabs of Eisenhower really shook me a bit when I first read about them. What in the world would possess you to think your long-time ally is communist stooge? One excerpt I read did give me a bit of relief. I was under the impression from something I read that Benson back McCarthy and I was pleased to see that he disliked that cretin’s disgusting methods.

Elder Benson would have made a terrible U.S. president. He wasn’t a good politician at all.

I wouldn’t equate him with Elder McConkie or President Smith. They were codifiers of doctrine and that always makes you controversial whether you are right or wrong. Not really on the same level. Someone who take President Smith’s word on doctrinal issues might become dogmatic but they are less likely to join a militia group or argue that Jews have taken over the world.

Happy putchmas!

[Ragerunner]

22 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You may have noticed, however, that the Brethren are not pushing anything hard.  It is more like gentle persuasion.  I don't detect a lot of resistance.  Most Latter-day Saints are good-hearted people with a fine set of priorities.  Moreover, the younger generation will soon shed many of the old attitudes -- if they have not already.  The truly crazy cultists will crash and burn on their own.  What was it that Sir Mick Jagger said?  You know, the guy who studied at the London School of Economics, 1962-63.  He said "Time is on my side." 

I have seen a lot of resistance from members in our ward and stake as well as many active friends throughout the US. 

They have rebelled on Covid request from the brethren and many get really upset at the church’s position on immigration. 

If it doesn’t fit a certain political viewpoint they are absolutely resisting.

Not all, by any means, but it enough to be very prevalent in our region and among many of our active friends and family members.

[Fether]

4 hours ago, Teancum said:

I just finished reading this boo.  Has anyone else here read it?  It is a great book.  I kne ETB was very political and very extreme right wing.  But I did not realize how far he took it nor that he had presidential aspirations.  It seems that politics almost took precedence over his apostolic calling.  It also seems he has had a huge impact on the political views of so many church member in the US and especially in the west.  It seems pretty certain he was a right wing extremist.  The dominance of the Republican party among Latter day Saints can likely be laid at his feet as can so much of the right wing extremism among church members today. They all rely on his sermons extensively.

It amazes me how much influence and lasting impact, and not always for good, that one strong willed LDS leader can have and leave on the church. ETB did it politically.  McConkie and Joseph Fielding Smith did it in regards to dogmatic doctrine.

I think it would be good for the church to have more democratic members. Not so much the leftists that are pushing social movements that don’t align with the doctrine, but I would love to see way more political variety in my ward. I cringe a little when someone makes a right leaning political statement assuming we all agree.

I think that whole era of leaders were motivated by external social beliefs that didn’t necessarily come from revelation… though I imagine the same will be said about Pres Nelson in years to come.

[ttribe]

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You may have noticed, however, that the Brethren are not pushing anything hard.  It is more like gentle persuasion.  I don't detect a lot of resistance.  Most Latter-day Saints are good-hearted people with a fine set of priorities.  Moreover, the younger generation will soon shed many of the old attitudes -- if they have not already.  The truly crazy cultists will crash and burn on their own.  What was it that Sir Mick Jagger said?  You know, the guy who studied at the London School of Economics, 1962-63.  He said "Time is on my side." 

If you would like some examples of resistance, just spend some time over at the LDS Freedom Forum reading all the posts by members calling President Nelson a "servant of Satan" and derivatives of that sentiment.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I think it would be good for the church to have more democratic members. Not so much the leftists that are pushing social movements that don’t align with the doctrine, but I would love to see way more political variety in my ward. I cringe a little when someone makes a right leaning political statement assuming we all agree.

I think that whole era of leaders were motivated by external social beliefs that didn’t necessarily come from revelation… though I imagine the same will be said about Pres Nelson in years to come.

The midwest was more split in the past. FDR won the state in all four elections and that was despite a bit of hesitance about him from Church leadership. LBJ also took the state.

Although all the rest were Republican victories it is more important to remember that pre-Reagan the parties were not as strictly divided. The Republicans had a more liberal wing and a moderate wing. The democrats had some staunch conservatives and the usual medley of interests. Gerald Ford was pretty liberal 

Ezra Taft Benson was involved with the most far-right of far-right people. Nixon thought he was too far right and Nixon wasn't a moderate. Benson did put out feelers to work in Nixon's cabinet. Nixon already had George Romney though (mostly to placate the moderate wing of the party) and two heavily opposed Mormons in his cabinet was probably too many and could have become a farce. Look up what happened between Nixon and Romney if you want a story about a political church member who was a legitimate civil rights champion. Romney actually sought the Presidency but lost to Nixon in the Primary at least partially because Romney wanted civil rights as part of the GOP platform despite criticism from the rest of the party and from some in church leadership. Eisenhower backed Romney and the two were aligned on a lot of things including civic responsibility, one more reason I like Eisenhower.

The moderate wing of the GOP after Carter was best embodied in Bush but he lost the primary to Reagan and was only VP to unify the ticket. It might have resurged to prominence if he had been able to hold onto the Presidency for more than one term himself (I blame Perot) but after that the party was much more unified but much further right. They also had a growing media empire backing the movement built with the explicit intent to make sure what happened to Nixon could never happen again. The last vestiges of the more moderate wing are/were people like McCain and Romney who were trying to grow the base but after both of them were defeated it was pretty much over. That is a long way of saying that party affiliation was not nearly as good an indicator of ideology as it is now. It is still not that good of an indicator.

While Benson was much more principled than many of those he associated with he was more than a little credulous when it came to a good conspiracy theory. His presidential campaign aspirations were pretty nutty. At one point they hinged on a third party run. (Insert joke here about apostles only being third party protest candidates starting with Joseph Smith) In the 1960s even most of the more conservative members of the GOP thought the John Birch Society nutjobs Benson was involved with should be kept out of the party after the society started accusing Eisenhower of treason during World War 2. One of the accusations is that Eisenhower ignored Donitz's little government setup when he tried to convince the Allies to team up with the Germans against the Soviets. Basically upset that Eisenhower didn't work with Nazis because he was 'compromised' by communists. This purge was supported by Goldwater, Reagan, Buckley, and a bunch of the other leaders in the Republican party. Buckley worried it could easily morph into fascism. Still they criticized the leadership but tried to avoid criticizing members for fear of alienating supporters. Reagan spent a lot of effort distancing himself from them in the 60s.

All that being said I have enough stories about President Benson to know he loved the gospel and the church and its members. He also, to the great relief of many, backed off from the political talks almost completely once he became President of the Church. I don't know if it was President Kimball's earlier chastisement, something that happened in the call, or something else but it largely calmed down. I also can say that I suspect that if President Benson were able he would denounce many of the groups today using his words. He believed conspiracies but I can't see him backing Bundy or Q-Anon. 

 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

If you would like some examples of resistance, just spend some time over at the LDS Freedom Forum reading all the posts by members calling President Nelson a "servant of Satan" and derivatives of that sentiment.

Many there are not members any more, some haven’t been for a long time.  If you don’t know the poster’s history, best not to make that assumption IMO (that they are members).

There are definitely some members posting strong resistance, just saying if anyone does follow your suggestion, they need to know that it is a mix of nonmembers and members and not assume they are walking into a completely faithful (committed to the Church as they see it) group.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, ttribe said:

If you would like some examples of resistance, just spend some time over at the LDS Freedom Forum reading all the posts by members calling President Nelson a "servant of Satan" and derivatives of that sentiment.

Those are some of the cultists to which I was referring, in addition to the Daybell Doomsday Cult and the like.  They are suicidal groups.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

I have seen a lot of resistance from members in our ward and stake as well as many active friends throughout the US. 

They have rebelled on Covid request from the brethren and many get really upset at the church’s position on immigration. 

If it doesn’t fit a certain political viewpoint they are absolutely resisting.

Not all, by any means, but it enough to be very prevalent in our region and among many of our active friends and family members.

Yes, of course, but it won't last.  Such nonsense has a way of dissipating over time -- as did the latent racism in the intermountain West.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Those are some of the cultists to which I was referring, in addition to the Daybell Doomsday Cult and the like.  They are suicidal groups.

They sure are taking their time about that last bit.

[Ragerunner]

12 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, of course, but it won't last.  Such nonsense has a way of dissipating over time -- as did the latent racism in the intermountain West.

I hope you are correct but I am not so sure. They are dug in pretty deep and have shown their willingness to openly rebel in church meetings by ignoring leadership guidance on Covid and several other issues.

It’s one thing to have different personal opinions, it’s another thing to openly ignore the prophet’s guidance while sitting on the stand. By doing that they are sending a signal to other members that they aren’t going to follow because of political viewpoints.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

I hope you are correct but I am not so sure. They are dug in pretty deep and have shown their willingness to openly rebel in church meetings by ignoring leadership guidance on Covid and several other issues.

It’s one thing to have different personal opinions, it’s another thing to openly ignore the prophet’s guidance while sitting on the stand. By doing that they are sending a signal to other members that they aren’t going to follow because of political viewpoints.

It seems a very unstable position to hold though.  Pure speculation, but my expectation is the current crop will either mellow or even repent or schism off.  But how long that will take, I don’t know and while the current ones are mellowing or schisming, they may produce a new generation of unstable (in terms of inconsistency in supporting or detracting from the authority of church leaders) members to fill any gaps they might leave, so we could have a constant presence of half dissent/half faithful (maybe loyal would be a better word, maybe committed…but every word I can think of has nuances that don’t quite fit).  The internet has now provided an extensive support group for this style of ‘churching’ where before one might have one’s family, but most influences would be pushing for change one way or the other (more in or out) rather than supportive as ‘as is’.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Ragerunner said:

I hope you are correct but I am not so sure. They are dug in pretty deep and have shown their willingness to openly rebel in church meetings by ignoring leadership guidance on Covid and several other issues.

It’s one thing to have different personal opinions, it’s another thing to openly ignore the prophet’s guidance while sitting on the stand. By doing that they are sending a signal to other members that they aren’t going to follow because of political viewpoints.

Yokels is as yokels does.   They eventually crash and burn of their own accord.  In any case, I don't find them to be all that common.

[Teancum]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

I think it would be good for the church to have more democratic members. Not so much the leftists that are pushing social movements that don’t align with the doctrine,

What social movements are you referring to?

5 hours ago, Fether said:

 

 

but I would love to see way more political variety in my ward. I cringe a little when someone makes a right leaning political statement assuming we all agree.

Yes I agree.

5 hours ago, Fether said:

I think that whole era of leaders were motivated by external social beliefs that didn’t necessarily come from revelation… though I imagine the same will be said about Pres Nelson in years to come.

See I think this is a problem. Benson was headstrong, outspoken, ignored council and the leadership pretty much lets him get away with it the outcome is no surprise. Yet right wing extremist now use Benson's views as revelation from God.

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Those are some of the cultists to which I was referring, in addition to the Daybell Doomsday Cult and the like.  They are suicidal groups.

As a result of Benson's right wing extremism.

[kimpearson]

Couple of thoughts.  President Benson was a good friend of my dad and I actually had several conversations with him as a teenager.  He really toned down his views after he became the prophet. It was almost like he was a different man.  He just quit talking about communism.  I don't think he changed his views but he kept them to himself.

Second thought.  We have one of the capital rioters in our stake and I have had to work with him a number of times in church settings.  He has a following in the stake of like minded people.  Some are very open about it and some keep it very quiet unless you are in a personal conversation.  It is interesting to watch stake and ward leadership pretend like nothing is going on like that in the stake.  He still serves in a stake calling.  He has pleaded not guilty but he is charged with some of the most serious charges including assaulting an officer.  I am curious to see what happens if he is found guilty which is highly likely.  Guess who provided much of the evidence against him and reported him to the FBI, his son.

[Chum]

1 minute ago, kimpearson said:

He really toned down his views after he became the prophet. It was almost like he was a different man.  He just quit talking about communism. 

I have a strong testimony of the Mantle.

[Chum]

7 minutes ago, Teancum said:

As a result of Benson's right wing extremism.

God uses some seriously flawed people. That's the miracle.

[sunstoned]

6 hours ago, ttribe said:

If you would like some examples of resistance, just spend some time over at the LDS Freedom Forum reading all the posts by members calling President Nelson a "servant of Satan" and derivatives of that sentiment.

It is really vile over there.  But is not just the extreme groups that are resisting, but rank and file members.  Several in my own family are anti-vax and make all kinds of excuses on why Nelson really didn't mean what he said.

[SkyRock]

2 hours ago, sunstoned said:

It is really vile over there.  But is not just the extreme groups that are resisting, but rank and file members.  Several in my own family are anti-vax and make all kinds of excuses on why Nelson really didn't mean what he said.

I have never heard of that forum before today.  That is a vile place.  It appears it is full of real apostates involved in various Mormon cults and spinoffs.  I fear for the souls of those active there. 

[Fether]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

What social movements are you referring to?

Normalizing LGBTQ, elective abortion, and anything else that is against our teachings.

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, kimpearson said:

....................

Second thought.  We have one of the capital rioters in our stake and I have had to work with him a number of times in church settings.  He has a following in the stake of like minded people.  Some are very open about it and some keep it very quiet unless you are in a personal conversation.  It is interesting to watch stake and ward leadership pretend like nothing is going on like that in the stake.  He still serves in a stake calling.  He has pleaded not guilty but he is charged with some of the most serious charges including assaulting an officer.  I am curious to see what happens if he is found guilty which is highly likely.  Guess who provided much of the evidence against him and reported him to the FBI, his son.

When he is found guilty, he will be excommunicated and do some time in federal prison.  He will likely never change his views.  He will still hate the Constitution and rule of law.

[Bob Crockett]

The drift to the right started with Reed Smoot.